Anyone seen this article in the Aug Irish shooters digest?

Flattop 15

Page 10 by "the poacher"
Titled new firearms amendemants revealed.
I am unable to print this out in it's entireity,but to surmise a 11 paragraph article.

Restriction of firearms;
the act will specify specific catgeories of firearms which may not be certified by a supertindent,but may be certified by the Garda comissioner at his discretion or by somone appointed by him.

Young people
Provision will be made for training people from the age of 14.

Conditions attaching to a cert
The act will allow Supers to attach conditions to a firearms cert.However it will be only within specified parameters laid down by the act.

Length of time for processing certs
There will be a time limit on the time that a super can makeup his mind as to grant or refuse a cert.

Appeals
You will be able to appeal to the District court,rather than need to institute High court proceedings against your Super.Most importantly the DC will have the power to grant the liscense if it deems the appeal upheld.

Range Authorisation
Provision for authorisation of target ranges.Again recourse to the district courts if refused.

Firearms cert duration
The new act will be now for three years[and about time too]
They are consideing the multiple firearms license[Man!What a no brainer!!!]

Reloading
You got a liscense for the calibres,you will be able to reload them up to your ammo limit.There is some tweaking to do on the amount of powder a dealer can hold,this is to do with the inspector of explosives.The limited amount of handgun ammo with dealers is being discussed.

General
The activities of Superintendants making up the law as they go along was discussed.Nothing much going to happen with this until the Dail gets back from it's three month holidays.Etc etc,all participants found it most helpful talks,blah blah,blah yada yada..Read that stuff yourselves.

Folks ,this sounds pretty damn good!! Apart from the restriction of firearms[We can guess what those might be,but with Woody getting his "special"Glock,this might be wobbly ground for this legislation].
Sooo my next question is ;is this true or will we get a chopped and bastardised version of all this???

Dvs

This does sound pretty good,

But, the restriction of certain types of firearms could mean anything,
they could restrict everything somebody with little or no knowledge decides is a scary firearm!

Why would anyone want a ...................
(insert whatever firearm springs to mind.)

The time limit for applications could cut both ways also,
it suggests that if a response is not forthcoming in the specified time frame then an automatic refusal would result !

So a Superintendent, could just do nothing, and you are refused!
Then, according to the alleged proposed, new ammendments, you would have the right to challenge this in the District court.

Enough instances of this, then delays in cases being heard would surely occur.

If this was adopted by the same Superintendents who are now claiming all kinds of requirements exist, that must be met, before a decision can be made,
it would be very little improvement.

However, if it was the case that an application, that was not responded to within the time frame specified, resulted in the firearms cert being granted, then the Superintendents, would be forced to deal with cases that they had genuine reasons and grounds, for refusing.

Dvs.

Flattop 15

But, the restriction of certain types of firearms could mean anything,
they could restrict everything somebody with little or no knowledge decides is a scary firearm!

Why would anyone want a ...................
(insert whatever firearm springs to mind.)

Fact,but again unless they pull in all of a certain type of restricted firearm,and then compensate the owners for loss of liscensed property.The precedent is still set under previous law.So say ,you had an AR15 semi and it has been liscensed before the new act,the new act makes it an uliscenseable firearm,you can still appeal to the comissioner for the liscense,as seemingly the original preconditions of ownership will still exist.So does the cheif want to get bogged down in issueing gun lics??
My bet it will apply to full auto and such stuff.As it sounds like a loophole for visiting foregin VIPS to be able to bring in their BGs etc.[The visiting head of State system]



]

The time limit for applications could cut both ways also,
it suggests that if a response is not forthcoming in the specified time frame then an automatic refusal would result !

So a Superintendent, could just do nothing, and you are refused!
Then, according to the alleged proposed, new ammendments, you would have the right to challenge this in the District court.

Enough instances of this, then delays in cases being heard would surely occur
If this was adopted by the same Superintendents who are now claiming all kinds of requirements exist, that must be met, before a decision can be made,
it would be very little improvement.

True,but as to delays,I could see it being dealt with it like the week of the annual renewal of pub ,gaming and dance halls week in every DC.[Remember too that the Super will be now fenced in by parameters of the act.Which is also covering his rear end as well,as he can claim the person fitted correctly into the laid down law,if somthing bad happens.]
So it is doubtful that he could claim on "reasonable grounds" that you turn your house into Fort Knox,before he issues a lic for your softair pistol.
Yet mabe,if you live in scumbagville and have two dozen shotguns,a dozen handguns and1000 rounds of ammo for each,he would have justification.

All in all it is a better deal that we have had here in a long time.However watch out for any sneaky other amendmants that might be tacked on in October,like having to go to a shrink for assesment ,etc,as the Abbylara tribunal will be issueing it's findings as well.

Keelan

Ristriction of certain types of firearms?
Does this mean that pistols will be banned again? :rolleyes:
Does anyone know what types of firearms wont be licenced?
Also, when is this bill coming into effect?
Thanks.

Ammoman

Lets be honest , the law in this country is open to interpratation and will always be , so no matter what the CJB ends up with , the superintendants will interperate it their own way that suits them . Just because the written law changes , the attitude of the individual superintendants doesn't .

Dont expect to gain anything from the CJB we are more likely to loose something, I agree that the firearms acts need to be sorted out but they should be looked at seperately to the CJB , and DOJ shouldnt be trying to tag on its little bits that affect the Firearms acts to a bill that largely doesnt affect law abiding citizens .

Keelan

Ok, so when is this bill suppose to come into effect?
Is it next september or October?
Can anyone tell me.
Thanks.

Sparks

The Dail is in recess for the summer Keelan, so it won't be seen until later this year, odds are that (assuming it passes, which is a pretty safe bet), it will be in force by the time our licences need renewing again.

And most of what was in that article wasn't new, but there were one or two points of interest - the training licences (which we've been told will go as low as 12 for airguns, btw) will be one-time-issue things, which last from when issued to when you are old enough for a full licence (they'll allow for use of a firearm, not possession of that firearm or ammo, the parent/guardian/club will have to have the full licence). What happens to older shooters who get the licence to train with isn't clear though, because this was aimed at the junior shooters from the start.

The conditions thing has been around since Dunne v. Donoghue, this is just copper-fastening it; the restrictions on the types of firearm was mentioned in here a few months ago; the appeals process through the DCs is a good step forward and I'm damn glad to see it, but I don't think the DC will have the power to order a licence issued because that would run contrary to every firearms act ever written and the high court and supreme court's ruling in Dunne.

The stuff on the firearms cert duration is good, though I didn't note in the article if it was on a rolling date or not. *checks article again* Nope, no mention. It's kindof an important point that, because it would not only reduce workload for the gardai, but for us as well.

And it's good to see the reloading finally being cleared up on the books, the current situation is daft beyond belief!


(and by the by, an note of small interest is that the article is saying that it was the NARGC and the NRPAI that met with the DoJ, so I'm guessing I'm not alone in being unimpressed with last year's AGM nonsense there)

Keelan

Thanks Sparks.
You seem to be a knowlegable person on these matters.
On the subject of which firearms will be ristricted, do you know if its pistols or certain caliber rifles ect?
Thanks.

Sparks

No-one knows Keelan, that's the worry - the amendment (assuming it's what we were told it was) just says that the Minister can specify specific types of firearm (we were told that meant class&calibre, rather than entire classes of firearm) as being unlicensable, the same way he can currently designate specific types of firearm as being exceptionally dangerous.

chem

Before we all go thanking the minister for justice, for his sudden U turn on firearms laws, we should just remember that we are all part of the EU now.

I say this because Ireland was breaking the laws on free import of goods and movement of goods, with the current firearms laws.

EU Firearms Laws

As with all other laws made by the EU. They are made to harmonise the laws of all the member states.

As to how our new laws will look and as to what might or might not be restricted, here is the EUs view on types of firearms

Firearm types

And just before anyone gets there hopes up. Have a look at the proposed fireworks review. If you read trough it you would think that some categories of fireworks used weapons grade uranium :rolleyes:

Fireworks law review

Point is that if they are getting so touchy on the new changes to the fireworks laws, what will they think of guns?

civdef

Conditions attaching to a cert
The act will allow Supers to attach conditions to a firearms cert.However it will be only within specified parameters laid down by the act.

This one here could be significant. Wonder if there are any outlines of what it could consist of?