gas heating questions

lomb

we are getting gas installed at home and have got 2 quotes, one for 3700 and one for 6000, can i ask whether condensing boilers are relaible? the 3700 quote guy wants to put in a condensing worcester bosch 80000 btu boiler and the other guyn wanting 6 grand a 120000 btu non condensing glow worm boiler.
he reakons our house needs 120000 btu. our existing oil boiler is a 70000 btu boiler and seems to do the job reliably and fine with no complaints.

so can i ask if 80000 btu is ok or whats the story? also the 6000 grand guy reakoned the efficient condensing boilers let off alot of steam and werent reliable. can any one comment on this?

if not im going with the 3700 one as it seems ok for a price to me.

xonencentral

I take it you haven't heard the news that gas is going up by 25%. , 69% since 1999, Give it another 5-10 years, ???

Wood pellets and solar water panels together, your only man !!!

It'll help keep your money in your wallet and its renewable and environmentally friendly.

lomb

xonencentral wrote:

I take it you haven't heard the news that gas is going up by 25%. , 69% since 1999, Give it another 5-10 years, ???

Wood pellets and solar water panels together, your only man !!!

It'll help keep your money in your wallet and its renewable and environmentally friendly.

no time for solar man its 5 euro a watt fitted so u need to spend 50 grand and the panels need replacing after a few years :eek: , is it really going up 25%? well oil is linked to gas, the main thing is the efficiency of our oil boiler is 65% and the new condensing gas one is 90%, so thats a saving of 400 euro a year with us +we use lpg bottle gas to cook and the bottles are basisaclly making 10 euro profit per bottle, so that means we will save 90 euro a year on bottles, so even b4 taking the low gas price into account we will be saving 500 euro a year.

gregos

xonencentral wrote:

Wood pellets and solar water panels together, your only man !!!

Have you seen the price of wood pellet burners? Scandal.

rooferPete

Hi lomb,

Did both contractors measure each room in the house and calculate the radiator sizes based on the BTU's required ?

The total of the requirements for each room and taking items like insulation into consideration tells you the output of the boiler needed to comfortably heat the house.

The base figures should not change unless somebody is making a mistake, I find it hard to understand how a boiler regardless of the fuel used should change from 80,000 BTU's to 120,000 when the original boiler has an output of 70,000 BTU's.

I like to have a boiler that exceeds the prescribed requirements because it will run more effeciently (cheaper) and should last longer because it's not under pressure.

I take it the difference in cost is €2,300.00 ? the difference in the cost, recommended boilers and opinions would have me seeking a third quote.

Also as the base cost is between €3,700.00 and €6,000.00 I would be looking at the alternative energy route as xonencentral has posted.

Gas is all but linked to the price of oil (especially LPG) and is a limited rescource, it could be the right time to investigate your options.

.

xonencentral

Hi Lomb,

Sounds like your quoting Solar PV prices (electric), solar water panels are a much simpler technology but really do provide you with FREE hot water all year round and you only have to suppliment it in the winter, if you put enough of them in.

The high buy in costs will pale into significance within the next 10 years if you get in today.

It'll be a bit like, (I wish I bought that house when it was 50 grand syndrome), it always seems expensive at the time but you'll be laughin in years to come especially after the "energy performance of buildings directive" comes in next January. Gas and Oil are all fossil fuels and will substantially devalue your house value under the new rules.

lomb

there is no devaluation, all the money in property is in the 'land' not in what the house has if u know what i mean.
as re panel heaters, ounds good, i might consider it if i had a new house as a gadget thing but i doubt it s economically viable. im sure retrofitting would be easy when easy kits some out in 10-15 years for reasonable money.

gregos

xonencentral wrote:

The high buy in costs will pale into significance within the next 10 years if you get in today.

Yes. And considering that Bord Gais are raising prices isn't it amazing that exploration companies can have our gas for free? This was a deal agreed by Ray Burke, as far as I know.

xonencentral

I think you'll find that they didn't get it for free, they probably had to give him a few brown evelopes, a house extension or 2

Ogham

The condensing gas boilers are much more efficient and will save you gas in the long run. These boilers are dearer - so if its a cheaper quote go for it.
Worceter Bosch are a good make - I had one in England and the gas bills came down straight away. We had a combi boiler - is that what you are getting? These are great - but seem unpopular in Ireland. Basicaly - no tank just heats the hot water as you put on the hot water tap - almost instant hot water.

lomb

thanks im def going with 3700 as it is indeed a condensing boiler. as far as combi goes it is not a combi boiler, it would require a lot of replumbing to achieve what combis do, and also i found them very unreliable. a house i was staying in had only just had a new baxi combi boiler installed and it broke within a few months. also being so complex they are very expensive to repair. so im def going with the lower priced one as its very efficient and 2 year warranty and 80000 btu is enough if our original is 70000. lets hope the boiler lasts, thanks for all the help.

pipers

I wouldn't touch a condensing boiler. And im not a fan of gloworm either, they are similar to FIAT's.

Can i ask what was the difference is (besides the boilers) in the 2 quotes?

Alun

I wouldn't touch a condensing boiler.

Could I ask why? Haven't got one here (yet) but had a Nefit condensing combi-boiler when I lived in Holland for over 8 years, and apart from a fan breaking down (known fault, apparently, and signalled straight away by the error diagnostics) never a single problem. We used less gas there to heat our 3 storey detached house than we do here to heat our (relatively) tiny bungalow.

pipers

My experience of what is available now and over the past 20 years in the irish market, has been to replace with conventional boilers.

Alun

pipers wrote:

My experience of what is available now and over the past 20 years in the irish market, has been to replace with conventional boilers.

That's as maybe, but it's not exactly an answer to my question, is it? Have you had bad experiences with condensing boilers, for example? Or do you consider that they don't live up to their expectations or specifications?

lomb

pipers wrote:

I wouldn't touch a condensing boiler. And im not a fan of gloworm either, they are similar to FIAT's.

Can i ask what was the difference is (besides the boilers) in the 2 quotes?

can i ask why not?

and difference was dearer quote was going to fit a 120000 btu conventional glowworm ,and the cheaper quote a bosch woscester condensing 80000 btu boiler with 2 year waranty, new pump, full flush, bord gais hook up (150foot) to gas main consisting of 250euro standard bord gais charge for 45 foot, and then an overground pipe sleeved for safety that carried it the extra 105 foot

the dearer guy wanted bord gais to hook it up to the front of the property ie 100 foot at a cost of 250 + 80 euro per 3 foot= ALOT, the cheaper will have bord gais mount the meter on the front garden wall at 45 foot and he will carry it back all the way above ground. in any case both quotes were above ground for the final hook up to the boiler.

lomb

just an update for anyone who is interested, the 80000 btu boiler was fitted and is excellent, and as is WAY too powerful even on a low heat setting, 120000 would have been overkill, and would have wasted alot of gas due to it being too big.