Guns N Roses

Motley Crue

Guns N Roses is one of those bands whose songs simply cannot be remade. Their style cannot be reproduce. They(Guns n Roses)on the other hand can make virtually any song better. The Spaghetti Incident is evidence of this statement. I agree with one of the people here that said Axl Rose and Slash are one of the best duos of all time. I believe Mr Rose's raw musical talent has been overlooked because of shallow people's petty interest in his personal life and his troubled ways. Slash is simply the most soulful musician I have ever heard with maybe the exception of Ludwig Van Beethoven. I have studied and am trained in classical music and have studied the great composers in music history(Beethoven,Mozart,Chopin,etc..) therefore I can appreciate the exceptional musical talent and deep emotion these two individuals put into their music, especially Mr. Rose.

Doctor J

I think the Spaghetti Incident is one of the worst albums I have ever heard, whose only redeeming feature was the relief felt when it was turned off. Personally, I would've said that Izzy Stradlin was the real soul of that band, evidenced by their descent into rock cabaret after his departure. Slash is a decent guitarist for sure but I think a lot of his hype is due to the impact his more blues based style of playing had at the height of the late 80's where technical ability at the expense of taste was quite in vogue. Certainly I wouldn't rate him as one of the best or most soulful guitarists ever, let alone compare him to a great composer. He is an iconic figure for sure but is in no way comparable IMO to any of the true genii mentioned, he just doesn't have too much competition in this day and age.

Cungi

They were amazing up until the early nineties. Now they're a joke.

confetti

amazing up until the early 90's and now theyre a joke??

what kind of twat are you, they havent released an album of original material since 1991, and you say they were amazing then??

so by releasing nothing they have become a joke in your books,

fact: guns n' roses are untouchable

confetti

Doctor J wrote:

I think the Spaghetti Incident is one of the worst albums I have ever heard, QUOTE]


well its a good thing they didnt release that album to gain respect or impress, they covered songs that weren't known but were songs that influenced them growing up, they did it for themselves as a tribute,

read the inlay card on the album, gnr even say themselves to do yourselves a favour and go buy the originals


and oh yeah, theres some great songs on TSI, like down on the farm, attitute, black leather,new rose, hair of the dog, f.uck it the whole album is great,
most people dont like it because it says Guns N' Roses on the cover and it dont sound like gnr originals, fair enough for some,

its also the kind of album that these people who are into music that isnt popular just because it isnt popular (you know who you are) should like but they dont because it says Guns N' Roses o the cover,

Basically its an underrated album caught in the middle

Geiger

Pulling out of shows at the last minute is a joke. Everyone but a diehard fan will admit that.

Doctor J

Actually, I knew quite a few of the originals, thanks. I commented on the album on the merits of the music, rather than the motive behind it or whatever was written in the inlay. I didn't enjoy it. I thought it was weak by a band who had run out of steam IMO.

confetti

Geiger wrote:

Pulling out of shows at the last minute is a joke. Everyone but a diehard fan will admit that.

yeah that happened every night,

what it is is disapointing, who laughed?

confetti

Doctor J wrote:

Actually, I knew quite a few of the originals, thanks. I commented on the album on the merits of the music, rather than the motive behind it or whatever was written in the inlay. I didn't enjoy it. I thought it was weak by a band who had run out of steam IMO.

what i was defending was the fact that people judge guns on an album that was never meant to contain number ones and they label it a flop or shi...te,


yeah your opinion is your own and its true for you so thats fair enough,

those songs are good IMO and played well

Dr. Dre

Top band!
I thought the spaghetti incident was dire.
Slane 1992 was freaking excellent.

confetti

Doctor J wrote:

.

P.s are you Julius Erving or is it coincidence

Doctor J

No, I'm his nephew.

confetti

Doctor J wrote:

No, I'm his nephew.

cool, you must be good with balls then

Doctor J

confetti wrote:

most people dont like it because it says Guns N' Roses on the cover and it dont sound like gnr originals

I think that's a fairly ridiculous generalisation tbh. How the hell do you know what "most people" think? You don't think people have the strength of mind to evaluate the merits of a recording based on the music alone? Are you really that arrogant?

confetti wrote:

what i was defending was the fact that people judge guns on an album that was never meant to contain number ones and they label it a flop or shi...te,

I don't recall any GnR album which was meant to be chock full of number ones? I thought they were a rock n roll band? That album was recorded at a time when they were running on empty, the band was falling apart, they were largely wiped out on drugs and it shows in those flat recordings. Besides, where has anyone suggested that because it wasn't meant to contain "the hits" that it was a flop? If it was meant to be a hits package, they would've chosen more commercially viable songs, no?

Let me clarify:
Based only on the sounds which come from the speakers, I view that album as fairly weak. I thought the same when it came out originally. I would say the same of about half of the Use Your Illusion albums, there was the potential for an unbelivably good rock album there but when it came out it was half great, half bloated self indulgence. The Spaghetti Incident sounds, to me, based on the music contained therein, tired and uninspired. By anyone's standards, let alone GnR's, it isn't a great record at all.

confetti wrote:

cool, you must be good with balls then

Cool, you must be, what, 15? :rolleyes:

Geiger

confetti wrote:

yeah that happened every night,

what it is is disapointing, who laughed?

Not laughable, but ludicrous. Dictionary.com is both fast and free.

http://www.drownedinsound.com/articles/5608.html

It didn't have to happen every night man, they just cancelled it all in one fell swoop.

confetti

Doctor J wrote:

I think that's a fairly ridiculous generalisation tbh. How the hell do you know what "most people" think? You don't think people have the strength of mind to evaluate the merits of a recording based on the music alone? Are you really that arrogant?



I don't recall any GnR album which was meant to be chock full of number ones? I thought they were a rock n roll band? That album was recorded at a time when they were running on empty, the band was falling apart, they were largely wiped out on drugs and it shows in those flat recordings. Besides, where has anyone suggested that because it wasn't meant to contain "the hits" that it was a flop? If it was meant to be a hits package, they would've chosen more commercially viable songs, no?

Let me clarify:
Based only on the sounds which come from the speakers, I view that album as fairly weak. I thought the same when it came out originally. I would say the same of about half of the Use Your Illusion albums, there was the potential for an unbelivably good rock album there but when it came out it was half great, half bloated self indulgence. The Spaghetti Incident sounds, to me, based on the music contained therein, tired and uninspired. By anyone's standards, let alone GnR's, it isn't a great record at all.



Cool, you must be, what, 15? :rolleyes:

Firstly, it doesnt take a genius to know that the majority of people bought TSI based on their liking of prvious gnr albums, which were original material,

the spaghetti incident? contains cover versions which are nothing like gnr originals nor were meant to be....

not everyone has the same musical taste as gnr so a lot of peole did not like it....even though they liked the gnr original music,

therefore im not being arogant, its pretty obvious.
*****************************************
guns n roses albums (original material) was their music, i did not say that they intended to get number ones,
what i said was TSI never intended to get number ones ,
IF GNR HAD RELEASED ORIGINAL MUSIC, THEY WOULD HAVE GOT A NUMBER ONE ALBUM AND MOST LIKELY SUCCESFUL SINGLES, im not being arogant and i dont think i know it all in saying this but i do know the talent of gnr and the success they were riding would have guaranteed this..

so, what i am saying was that they never expected TSI to be that succesful (yet again, they released it cos they wanted,)

***************************************************

oh as for the cool you must be 15 comment... no im not 15, not as if that matters, i didnt claim to be the nephew of a basketball legend,
that sounds pretty pre teen if you ask me
************************************************

and finally, dont go repsonding with a big long comeback, i havent the energy and im going to collapse, so if you must keep it short please!!
***********************************************

confetti

Geiger wrote:

Not laughable, but ludicrous. Dictionary.com is both fast and free.

http://www.drownedinsound.com/articles/5608.html

It didn't have to happen every night man, they just cancelled it all in one fell swoop.

dictionary.com eh?? good for you, well done

eh guitarist buckethead was actually quite ill

anyway i thought we were talking about original gnr?

confetti

Geiger wrote:

It didn't have to happen every night man, they just cancelled it all in one fell swoop.

and since when has cancelling the remainder of a tour been the crime of the century? every band has cancelled tours at some stage.

Geiger

confetti wrote:

dictionary.com eh?? good for you, well done

eh guitarist buckethead was actually quite ill

anyway i thought we were talking about original gnr?

No. I think the old Guns n Roses stuff is great, I wouldn't have spent money on it otherwise. This is what we disagree on:

fact: guns n' roses are untouchable

As good as they were , I don't think they were ever 'the best'.

and since when has cancelling the remainder of a tour been the crime of the century? every band has cancelled tours at some stage.

Seriously, stop bumping your post count with this junk, just edit your posts. It's like I said before about diehard fans, they will never admit their favourite band can do something wrong.

Doctor J

confetti wrote:

IF GNR HAD RELEASED ORIGINAL MUSIC, THEY WOULD HAVE GOT A NUMBER ONE ALBUM AND MOST LIKELY SUCCESFUL SINGLES, im not being arogant and i dont think i know it all in saying this but i do know the talent of gnr and the success they were riding would have guaranteed this..
***************************************************

oh as for the cool you must be 15 comment... no im not 15, not as if that matters, i didnt claim to be the nephew of a basketball legend,
that sounds pretty pre teen if you ask me
************************************************

and finally, dont go repsonding with a big long comeback, i havent the energy and im going to collapse, so if you must keep it short please!!
***********************************************

Oh I must, I must

Do you really believe GnR were capable of writing original music at that point (to the standard of their previous efforts)? If means nothing, it's just speculation neither of us are qualified for. It's been, what, 15 years now since an original album? Sure there would've been a lot of hype (just as there was for The Spaghetti Incident IIRC) but they didn't have the tunes and, as a band, they were disingtegrating. Was Duff still even in the band when TSI had been released? That album (which is the point of this in the first place, let us not forget) is an accurate representation of the state of the band at the time. Based on the strength of the music, it's a pretty crap album.

Oh, by the way, if you don't want to be called a child then don't make stupid childish jokes and don't call people twats because you disagree with them, then people might talk to you like a grown up. It's very simple

confetti

Geiger wrote:

No. I think the old Guns n Roses stuff is great, I wouldn't have spent money on it otherwise. This is what we disagree on:

As good as they were , I don't think they were ever 'the best'.

i'm not trying to be a smartass here, but use that dictionary, untouchable doesnt mean that they are undisputably the best band ever,

i was using it in the context of they have secured their place in rock n roll history, no cancelled shows or bad press can remove them,

appetite for destruction alone made them untouchable in rock history

Doctor J

confetti wrote:

appetite for destruction alone made them untouchable in rock history

I agree entirely, but the band who recorded Appettite For Destruction and the band who recorded The Spaghettit Incident were very, very different (and I'm not just talking about the line-up here)

confetti

Doctor J wrote:

Oh I must, I must

Do you really believe GnR were capable of writing original music at that point (to the standard of their previous efforts)? If means nothing, it's just speculation neither of us are qualified for. It's been, what, 15 years now since an original album? Sure there would've been a lot of hype (just as there was for The Spaghetti Incident IIRC) but they didn't have the tunes and, as a band, they were disingtegrating. Was Duff still even in the band when TSI had been released? That album (which is the point of this in the first place, let us not forget) is an accurate representation of the state of the band at the time. Based on the strength of the music, it's a pretty crap album.

Oh, by the way, if you don't want to be called a child then don't make stupid childish jokes and don't call people twats because you disagree with them, then people might talk to you like a grown up. It's very simple

when someone says they were amazing up until the early 90's and now theyre a joke?? they didnt exist as a band after the early 90's!!!!! how could i resist a 'name' of some sort? i stand by it

and yes i do believe that gnr were capable of writing music at that point,
capable being that they had the ability, what they didnt have at that point was the same goals,

duff was in the band till 1996.

i dont think its fair to say TSI is an accurate representation of the band at that time, they had played some of those songs in gigs, and had planned for some time to release that album.

they also planned to record the next album straight away, the rest is history... (don't even think about going into it)

Cungi

confetti wrote:

amazing up until the early 90's and now theyre a joke??

what kind of twat are you, they havent released an album of original material since 1991, and you say they were amazing then??

so by releasing nothing they have become a joke in your books,

fact: guns n' roses are untouchable

First of all no need to attack someone for having an opinion
Secondly, No album of original material in 14 years, constant line up changes, cancelled tours, not turning up at shows. Not exactly the hardest working band are they?
Thirdly, Grow up

baby*cham*bell

i truly love appetite, but can't get into the later stuff to the same extent.
Axl is mesmirising to watch in the videos for appetite, but he isn't the same in the lateR ones

confetti

Doctor J wrote:

I agree entirely, but the band who recorded Appettite For Destruction and the band who recorded The Spaghettit Incident were very, very different (and I'm not just talking about the line-up here)

yes they were a very different band, but of course they were, they couldnt not be. way side tracked here!!

you think the the spag incident sucks, i like it, but i like it because i love guns n roses, it interests me to hear songs that influenced them done in their way, i think they did justice to them, fans of the originals may disagree and thats understandable, i probably would if situation was reversed

confetti

Cungi wrote:

First of all no need to attack someone for having an opinion
Secondly, No album of original material in 14 years, constant line up changes, cancelled tours, not turning up at shows. Not exactly the hardest working band are they?
Thirdly, Grow up

im not attacking you, stop being so sensitive, and what do you mean by grow up??? im giving my opinion and backing it up, what do you want me to do?? i actually repect the opinion of dr j i just dont agree with all of it, but thats life isnt it?

that guns n roses finished in 1995/6.
stop saying no album in 14 years, thats like saying nirvana are a joke cos they havent released an album in whatever years.

constant line up changes and no album for the new band??

firstly the fact that there is no album is nothing to do with you or me or anyone else, none of us are owed anything, how many bands are outthere now that havent made it and are goign through countless line up changes and have no album??? thats what axl is goign through now, just beacuse hes in the spotlight of sorts dont mean you can judge, hes owes us nothing.

secondly, i said it all above

confetti

baby*cham*bell wrote:

i truly love appetite, but can't get into the later stuff to the same extent.
Axl is mesmirising to watch in the videos for appetite, but he isn't the same in the lateR ones

yeah i prefer the appettite days also, nothing like them

Geiger

confetti wrote:

i'm not trying to be a smartass here, but use that dictionary, untouchable doesnt mean that they are undisputably the best band ever,

i was using it in the context of they have secured their place in rock n roll history, no cancelled shows or bad press can remove them,

appetite for destruction alone made them untouchable in rock history

Yes, Guns N Roses have secured a place in rock history. Yes, Appetite for Destruction is a *classic* album. Nobody can take that away from those guys, we are agreed. But this was over 10 years ago and times have changed. Modern day Guns N Roses have done more harm than good to the GnR legacy. It's a shame because I think Axel Rose is a talented guy and maybe without the pressure of GnR's name, he could have released some more quality material with another band.

Cungi

How can you compare a band that dosen't exist anymore to a band that does

confetti

Geiger wrote:

Yes, Guns N Roses have secured a place in rock history. Yes, Appetite for Destruction is a *classic* album. Nobody can take that away from those guys, we are agreed. But this was over 10 years ago and times have changed. Modern day Guns N Roses have done more harm than good to the GnR legacy. It's a shame because I think Axel Rose is a talented guy and maybe without the pressure of GnR's name, he could have released some more quality material with another band.

mostly true, but i dont think any harm has been done to the gnr legacy,
true axl should have came up with a new name, i agree on that,
but the one thing i do know, axl is a seriously talented person so just wait and see what happens when the album is released, hopefully it will be soon, i believe it is mostly legal issues that stop it, duff and slash are suing, other things also,
but what do i know?? no one knows the real truth we'll just have to wait and see,

the thing abut the qulaity stuff with another band, thats what hes trying to do now, thats what took so long, he has said illusions were released before he was ready and this time its not coming out till hes 100% happy with it, hes also said hes doing this new album for himself, maybe we'll never hear it

confetti

look, i gotta go home, enjoyed the friendly arguments

take it easy and have a good weekend...

OLDYELLAR

I love guns n roses at the min , I seem to go through phases of loving them and hating them , its weird , but ya cannot deny that they were a brilliant band!

Giblet

Appetite is a fantastic album. They were a great live band and their presence is burned into musical history. The Spagetti Incident would only appeal to fans who want to hear more of *that* voice and *that* guitar tone but as a cohesive album?? Complete rubbish coming from the band that could have ruled the world!

It's a shame that Axl had to drag the name through the dirt and fans have had to put up with the crap with the concerts and the album.

Ah I could talk about GNR all night if I had to, too ... much ... drink.

Mossy Monk

confetti wrote:

i dont think any harm has been done to the gnr legacy

Guns N' Roses are now a band that has done sweet **** all for a decade. gave empty promises of a new album all the time and still nothing (that bull**** about wanting a perfect album is exactly what i said bull****). no shows at appearances. cancelling shows at the last minute

and you think the Guns legacy hasnt been affected

i loved the albums though, even The Spaghetti Incident but Chinese Democracy will have to be something out of this world at this stage

Nevyn

Guns and Roses are dead.

Once Izzy left that was that,
they got a replacement in and finished out the tours but man that was that.
Really Axel should leave the name be and show some respect for the dead.
There aint no going back. The music was of a time and a generation.
Really feels odd that there are kids out there 18 legal to drink an all born
the year Appetite was released and have never heard it, that is still freaky.

1 album from Velvet revolver so far, not bad but we will see.

Funk Daddy

Appetite for Destruction is one of the best albums of all time. Every song a classic. The Illussions had a bout 3 or 4 good songs on each, but GNR will always be legends in my eyes - the original GNR w/ Adler - not the 20 piece with the 15 hangers-on. And Sorum is a terrible repetitive drummer.

Jonny Arson

Appetite For Destruction has to be one of the most perfect Rock albums of all time. Everything about that album is pretty much perfect from the songs to the vocals and especially Slash's guitar playing which is a pleasure to listen to. However what the Use Your Illusions are generally not very good in comaparison to Appetite. No matter how good November Rain is, it's sucky compared to the dirty raw brilliance of Appetite.

Boggles

confetti wrote:

axl is a seriously talented person so just wait and see what happens when the album is released, hopefully it will be soon, i believe it is mostly legal issues that stop it, duff and slash are suing, other things also,
but what do i know?? no one knows the real truth we'll just have to wait and see,

Axel and his new Guns played a few songs from the "new" album at the Rock in Rio festival a couple of years, all piano ballads but still sounded pretty good. I have them somewhere.

Their still not a patch on Aerosmith thou.

nadir

Motley Crue wrote:

I have studied and am trained in classical music and have studied the great composers in music history(Beethoven,Mozart,Chopin,etc..) therefore I can appreciate the exceptional musical talent and deep emotion these two individuals put into their music, especially Mr. Rose.

Oh dear jebus, I wont waste the finger exercise

On the flame above, I think I share a similar opinion as most, Appetite was awesome, Use you illusions had some great stuff, 'estranged', 'you could be mine' etc... , but wasn't the same class, perhaps if they made one album of it.

I remember the thread a while back over Alx's voice, I thought it funny that lots of people thought GnR were some type of Bon Jovi fad, that they would be forgotten by fans, at least that thread put it straight, that GnR have a lasting place for many people in Rock History.

Red05

Motley Crue wrote:

Guns N Roses is one of those bands whose songs simply cannot be remade. Their style cannot be reproduce. They(Guns n Roses)on the other hand can make virtually any song better. The Spaghetti Incident is evidence of this statement. I agree with one of the people here that said Axl Rose and Slash are one of the best duos of all time. I believe Mr Rose's raw musical talent has been overlooked because of shallow people's petty interest in his personal life and his troubled ways. Slash is simply the most soulful musician I have ever heard with maybe the exception of Ludwig Van Beethoven. I have studied and am trained in classical music and have studied the great composers in music history(Beethoven,Mozart,Chopin,etc..) therefore I can appreciate the exceptional musical talent and deep emotion these two individuals put into their music, especially Mr. Rose.

I'd agree with that. (Dont listen to classical music though but point taken).

Guns N Roses have done many covers, and IMO have made the song better on many occasions. Knockin On Heavens Door, Live & Let Die, Dead Flowers etc. as well as the stuff on Spagetti Incident - which I think is a good album/

But their own stuff is amazing. App for Destruction is one of the best albums ever.

confetti

Mossy Monk wrote:

Guns N' Roses are now a band that has done sweet **** all for a decade. gave empty promises of a new album all the time and still nothing (that bull**** about wanting a perfect album is exactly what i said bull****). no shows at appearances. cancelling shows at the last minute

and you think the Guns legacy hasnt been affected

i loved the albums though, even The Spaghetti Incident but Chinese Democracy will have to be something out of this world at this stage

you cant start counting until they release the album, the old band is dead, the new hasnt started until they actually release something so counting and complaining does nothing, just forget about it until it happens

cptn_underpants

It sucks they haven't released any original material in well over a decade (except Oh My God from the end of days soundtrack which wasn't great IMHO) but the brand new stuff they've played live is class. Madagascar and the Blues are amazing, Chinese Democracy is very good, but Silkworms and Rhiad and the Bedouins are kinda crap. Plus the demo of I.R.S. that leaked on the internet this April sounds very promising, even if the sound quality is bad. The Blues might be my fave Guns song, that or Breakdown. Roll on Chinese Democracy!
Has anyone else any opinions on the new songs?

Motley Crue

I think the new songs are fairly decent alright. Theres a site on the Internet where you can get them for free actually, soundboard quality, its at the following address

http://www.gnrsucks.com/download.php?list.7

Guns n'roses manager, Merck Mercuriadis, has stated previously that 2005 will be the year for Guns n'roses, which indicates that Chinese Democracy is being lined up for a fourth quarter release. The official website also mentions November, Amazon has stated recently that it recieved official word that the release date would be November 29th

Plus, some amusing news on this site....Revisiting Guns N Roses?

http://www.freewebs.com/glam-metal/latestnews.htm

cptn_underpants

I think that the album will come out this year or early next year, I'm very much looking forward to it whenever it's released.

That Revisited thing is kinda cool just to hear the songs gettin played, but Steven Adler and Tracii Guns are so desperate to be part of Guns N' Roses it's sad. Ever seen the Adler's Appetite logo? What a loser, you were a great drummer but you blew it, you're not in the band anymore, get over it!

That Pratama lad's so gonna get sued for using the Guns N' Roses name!