Laois V Derry

Danno

Laois to win by a big margin?

I predict a Laois V Kildare style destruction...

Jester

Seriously doubt it, laois will be woken up very abruptly to a very physical and motivated ulster side. Derry have some of the finest forwards in the country, a absolutely brillant midfield and one of the most solid defences in the country, armagh barely managed to beat them with a fluky enough goal after derry had kicked 19 wides, with enda muldoon and fergal doherty coming back from injury i think your prediction is seriously flawed. Derry are serious dark horses this year and aren't gettin the respect they deserve at all.

blackbelt

yeah danno,you would say that seen as you're from laois.

Laois were dumped out of sam last year by Tyrone in a "laois v kildare" type fashion.Not taking anything away from Laois but your prediction isn't justified.I would have no problem if you predicted a laois win.but i can nearly guarantee you this will be a tight match but your prediction is your prediction.Derry are very tough opposition.always have been.

As Jester pointed out,Derry are dark horses.Highly underrated.I put a bet on that they would beat westmeath last year and they did.these ulster teams are very physical and can't be taken too lightly.Sure there are five teams left in ulster ... monaghan,cavan,derry,armagh,tyrone

two from leinster...Dublin and Laois
two from munster... cork and kerry
three connacht...galway,sligo,mayo

out of the 12 teams,nearly half of them are ulster sides.so taking an ulster side like derry lightly is a big mistake

Culchie

blackbelt wrote:

yeah danno,you would say that seen as you're from laois.

Laois were dumped out of sam last year by Tyrone in a "laois v kildare" type fashion.Not taking anything away from Laois but your prediction isn't justified.I would have no problem if you predicted a laois win.but i can nearly guarantee you this will be a tight match but your prediction is your prediction.Derry are very tough opposition.always have been.

As Jester pointed out,Derry are dark horses.Highly underrated.I put a bet on that they would beat westmeath last year and they did.these ulster teams are very physical and can't be taken too lightly.Sure there are five teams left in ulster ... monaghan,cavan,derry,armagh,tyrone

two from leinster...Dublin and Laois
two from munster... cork and kerry
three connacht...galway,sligo,mayo

out of the 12 teams,nearly half of them are ulster sides.so taking an ulster side like derry lightly is a big mistake

Agreed, though I lobbed a few bob on Laois before the season started at 25/1 and hoped for a run for my money.

I was surprised Dublin beat them, and would have fancied them against any of the qualifiers.....except Derry.

Hope they do it, if they do, they could be the team to beat this year..... we'll see.

Waylander

I dunno, don't get me wrong I think Derry are a good side, but I think alot of the posters here overrate them. If Paddy Bradley gets injured or has a bad day they are seriously depleted. It is never good to be that reliant on one player. As I said, I think they are a good side, but to my mind this match is wide open and either side could win it. I certainly would not agree with Danno that it will be a cake walk for Laois either.

Culchie

Waylander wrote:

I dunno, don't get me wrong I think Derry are a good side, but I think alot of the posters here overrate them. If Paddy Bradley gets injured or has a bad day they are seriously depleted. It is never good to be that reliant on one player. As I said, I think they are a good side, but to my mind this match is wide open and either side could win it. I certainly would not agree with Danno that it will be a cake walk for Laois either.

Completely agree, however look what Maurice Fitz did for a very average Kerry team in late 90's.

Close game this, hope Laois can do it.

*marie*

blackbelt wrote:

...these ulster teams are very physical...

Physical...what a nice way of putting it...

Danno

I appreciate what you are saying guys... but lets look at these factors...

* Nobody could have predicted Laois' demolition of Kildare - could they???
* Laois are going to lash out after throwing away a Leinster title
* Laois had the beating of Dublin - if only they played the first half!
* It's not often that Laois players end up boxing after training in an attempt to make the place on the team!!!
* Derry scraped past Down (ack. Laois scraped past Offaly too)
* Derry didn't set the world alight against Limerick either...

I think that Laois are going to be like a Kilkenny Hurling team (in attitude) against Derry... 110% HUNGRY

Even though Derry are physical, Laois will simply run around them...

cashback

Danno wrote:

* It's not often that Laois players end up boxing after training in an attempt to make the place on the team!!!

Eh?! :eek:

Don't think Laois will walk all over Derry, as much as I'd like them to!
Laois never seem to react very well in the qualifiers although we're unlucky in that we usually get a tough draw, this year being no different.
I think the lads will be mentally stronger this year and I think we'll just get by Derry. Just.

Waylander

Laois were bet because they were the second best team on the day. Dublin should have been at least 3 points further clear at half time, in which case Laois would not have reeled them in. Even when they did and went ahead they could not stay there. Kildare are a very poor side, who got knocked out of the qualifiers by an average Sligo team. I think Laois' result against Kildare did them more harm then good, people thought it was a much better result then it was. Sorry Danno, but this will be a close game, Laois will not be running all over anyone again this season, any games they play will be tight affairs unless they come up against Kerry, then they will take a beating. The same pretty much goes for Dublin, but most Dublin fans are aware of our limitations after the way Kerry humiliated us last year. We have improved but not by that much.

Yavvy

if ...if Laois beat Derry it will be by a point or two...perhaps even a bad ref's decision. but thats it. I dont knwo if you were at the Laois Kildare game but I was and I was disgusted to see the kildare lads just drop the heads and give up with ten minutes to go. Kildare are crap, all they did was have a good day against a crap Westmeath team. Would not look too much into that game.. more can be learned from the Dublin and offaly games.

TBH I think Laois need to score goals to have a chance against Derry.

Looking forward to the game the midfield battle will be fantastic and the turning point of who wins. its also a classic speed vs strenght game imo....

Flukey

It's going to be a very interesting game. It should be the best of the 4 round 4 matches. Tyrone should win easily though in the other one. Laois and Derry is hard to call, so I'll stay sitting on the fence. I'll get off it on Saturday to go to the matches though, as my ticket has arrived!

Lemlin

Maybe I'm underestimating Laois but I'm going for a Derry win.

stevemac

its a 50/50 game. Derry do have a few injuries and a few coming back, they are a strong physical side but sooner or later laois will have to beat one of these teams. I think a lot will depend on what laois team is selected and wether or not they play for most of the game.

Laois have the edge in scoring forwards, but derry have a big defence which could disrupt them. Laois have a strong midfield and should match/beat Derry if Garvin/Clancy play. And in defence Higgins should have a better day than against dublin and hopefully kelly will improve as well.

Flukey

Beano has been dropped for Laois and Muldoon may still be in for Derry. Interesting times.

hawker

First of all I'll have to pull Waylander on his constant mention of Kildare being a very poor side. I don't know what you have against Kildare but it's becoming a bit of a drag reading your messages.

Anyway not to hijack the thread. As a Kildare man I'm saying Laois will beat Derry. I'm sick of this Ulster physical stuff. It's not physical anymore. They are ruining football and the quicker some manager comes up with a plan to counteract this the better. Fair play to Laois they are a real football side and will continue to play football as long as they are let.

I'm just hoping someone like Laois, Galway, Cork, Mayo and after those four Dublin can win the All-ireland. It could only be good for FOOTBALL.

Waylander

Hawker I have nothing against kildare, but since Micko left they have been average at best. I do not really see how you can disagree with me to be honest. They got played off the pitch by Laois, and then beaten again by Sligo. I am not having a go at Kildare for the sake of having a go, but the Laois result was given far too much respect at the time, and I said so at the time. Because fo that result most people made Laois favourites for the Leinster final, desapite the fact they struggled to beat Offaly in the previous round. I say they are a poor side, simply because they are a poor side.

Lemlin

Hate to keep bringing up this point but I think the championship as a whole has showed that the whole of Leinster football is weak, not just Kildare. Last year's championship showed that too.

I fully expect Derry to beat Laois on Saturday as Paddy Bradley and Muldoon are finally getting some support from the other forwards.

Culchie

Lemlin wrote:

Hate to keep bringing up this point but I think the championship as a whole has showed that the whole of Leinster football is weak, not just Kildare. Last year's championship showed that too.

I fully expect Derry to beat Laois on Saturday as Paddy Bradley and Muldoon are finally getting some support from the other forwards.

Well, don't keep bringing it up then.

I personally think that you are completely over rating Ulster Football, take Tyrone and Armagh out of the equation and the other teams are collectively average (at best). Derry,Cavan, Donegal, Monaghan, Down, Fermanagh, Antrim.

Average.

For my money, Laois are a bloody good team, objectively I rate them above Dublin (no insulting posts please, only my opinion) ... however Dublin have other completely legal and above board advantages that are worth a couple of points every match which can swing things in their favour as well (used to Croker, Great Support, The Hill factor etc...)
Whether the Dubs agree or not, I'm sure they'll agree it's a close call between the two, so that's good enough for me, otherwise it gets petty.

Derry will be a tough nut to crack, but if Laois can do it and overcome this 'Ulster Hurdle', I think they will be the team most likely to take on Tyrone and Armagh.

Kildare IMHO, are an average team now, a long way from All Ireland contenders, Waylander is just calling it as he sees it.

Waylander

I mostly agree with Culchie here. I have said all season that there is very little between Dublin and Laois. The only thing I would disagree with, is that I think Derry are better then an average team, but I would still fancy Laois to at least push them close. If Derry lose Paddy Bradley for any reason, they probably would become an average team, too reliant on one player. The other Ulster teams, to my mind are not as good as Lemlin thinks they are, but each man is entitled to his own opinions. I would regard Cavan, Donegal and Down and fermanagh as average teams, and Monaghan and Antrim as bad teams. I was very surprised to see Monaghon beat Wexford, and to my mind at least, this was a bit of an upset.

Culchie

Waylander wrote:

I mostly agree with Culchie here. I have said all season that there is very little between Dublin and Laois. The only thing I would disagree with, is that I think Derry are better then an average team, but I would still fancy Laois to at least push them close. If Derry lose Paddy Bradley for any reason, they probably would become an average team, too reliant on one player. The other Ulster teams, to my mind are not as good as Lemlin thinks they are, but each man is entitled to his own opinions. I would regard Cavan, Donegal and Down and fermanagh as average teams, and Monaghan and Antrim as bad teams. I was very surprised to see Monaghon beat Wexford, and to my mind at least, this was a bit of an upset.

Yes, Derry are above average, I used the term 'collectively average' for the other Ulster teams.
Completely agree with Bradley analysis ... like Maurice Fitz in 1997 though?

Leaning towards Laois, kick of the ball between them

Lemlin

That's my point though lads. Derry, Cavan and Monaghan are all average Ulster teams but they all beat whatever was put before them from Leinster.

Monaghan accounted for Wexford (arguably the third best team in Leinster) quite easily, winning by five points and not under any pressure whatsoever and then beat Louth as well. Cavan beat Meath too, despite firing 17 wides or so.

So I don't think I'm overestimating Ulster teams, I think I'm just going on form.

Btw, I wouldn't underestimate Monaghan, they're champions of Division 2 and have a good team. Remember they shocked Armagh two years ago.

Waylander

I'm not underestimating them. They may be Div 2 champions, but Wexford are Div 1 runners up. Monaghon caught them on a bad day. Louth would not be considered a strong team. Meath are at the weakest they have been for a long time. Leitrim were unfortunate not to beat them, so lets not lose the run of ourselves over that result. Anyway that aside, there is already a thread on Ulster dominance, I see no reason to carry forward that theme in this thread also. As previously stated, I see nothing in between Laois and Derry. I favour Laois because Derry are too reliant on one player, and he may not play at his best or may get injured. Laois have more threats, and have Beano on the bench for the inspirational supresub role.

The Rooster

I think Derry are a step ahead of Cavan and Monaghan, as are Laois and Dublin. Derry, Laois and Dublin are in and around the same level. They would usually (but not always) beat Cavan and Monaghan and usually (but not always) lose to Armagh and Tyrone.

BigCon

Woo-hoo!!
Laois win despite not playing better than 50% in the first half.
Still finding out our best six forwards, midfield back to goalie picks themselves.
Thought the Derry challange would be more physical though...

Anyone know when Laois vs Armagh is?

Flukey

It will be on Saturday August 20th in Croke Park, as far as I know. Dublin v Tyrone is next Saturday.

CCOVICH

BigCon wrote:

Woo-hoo!!

Thought the Derry challange would be more physical though...

Why? Derry have never been a physical team AFAIR (except maybe Tohill and co. at midfield when they won the All-Ireland, but Tohill was a great athlete and imposing presence, more so than 'physical).

Donegal are far from physical-I wish they were more so, but the three sendings off against Armagh this year were for petulant fouls (Roper's in particular, Lacey's was dubious, and Sweeny's subsequently overturned). We couldn't outmuscle the Armagh minors tbh.

Tyrone are not physical at all, they are even more lightweight than Donegal.

The rest-Monaghan didn't look too imposing yesterday, Down are not as 'tough' as they once were (guys like Blaney, Withnall and McCartan had tremendous physical strength), Cavan have big McCabe, buy other than that? Fermanagh, Antrim? I don't think so.

IMHO, the only Ulster team I think you could describe as truely physical are Armagh-a lot of big men, and a 'hard hitting' style of play. Their forwards are very strong (Clarke and McDonnell in particular). Watch the way they can burst through tackles, and how McDonnell can field so much ball for an average size guy.

The only other team I would say are 'physical' are Limerick (this is based on what I have seen on TV, I'm afraid I don't know about Louth, Tipperary, Leitrim etc.)-big guys and they hit hard. Kerry have developed a certain 'mean streak' in recent years, based on the demands of who they have had to face (Limerick, Armagh et. al.)

Danno

Laois should have won by ways more...


All the wides - eeek

Lemlin

Ulster teams play good football as Derry and Tyrone showed yesterday. Everyone gets bogged down talking about the physical side but yesterday's games are testament to the quality of football skill in the province.

I think other teams just use it as an excuse when they lose to an Ulster side.