Sin City Nazi Symbolisim & thoughts etc..

mr_motivator

Just watched "Sin City" for the second time and had a few thoughts about it....

Didn't really enjoy the film to be honest, felt a little disappointed after watching it. Thought it might get better with a second viewing but unfortunately it didn't (not in my case anyway). Of course what RR did with the overall style and look of the film was very cool and truly original, which you can't say about 99% of films, but i thought it lacked any coherence with the three intertwining stories which generally failed to keep my attention (apart from parts of the Mickey Rourke story).

1) Does anyone have any thoughts or explainations on the Nazi symbolisim in the film. I noticed quite a few examples (the Swastika-shaped weapons used by Miku the female assassin, the dog collar covered with Third Reich crosses worn by the female leader of "old town" (can't remember her name?), and the Swastika displayed again this time tatto'ed onto the forehead of one the hencemen in the Clive Owen story (the guy who gets an arrow through the stomach by Miku and followed by one through the back of his head and out his forehead, exiting right where the Swastika is). Any Frank Miller fans out there what this is about?? Or does it has any significance at all apart from showing the characters as possessed murderering psychopaths?

2) Why is it that Hollywood films always throw up these ridiculous stereotypes of the Irish people?? A group of mercenaries pop up in Sin City led by a guy called "Murphy" carrying the worst attempts at an Irish accent ive heard in a long while. They proceed to get the heads blown off them before the last remaining mercenary explains that you should "never give an Irishman a reason for revenge" (or something along those lines). WTF is that about?? Was Miller writting these comics years ago at the height of the Troubles or what?? i know nothing of the comics and havnt even seen one of them. i admit to seeing the funny side and having a laugh at this part, and i realise nothing in this film is meant to taken too seriuosly (it is adapted from a comic book of course) ,but why is it we are usually portrayed so badly? Does this piss anyone else off??

steveland?

I think they were supposed to be part of the IRA... they mentioned something about blowing up a pub (I missed when they first appeared cos I was in the jacks at the time but that's what was explained to me... I did hear the thing about blowing up a pub though)

Karl Hungus

No idea about 1) but as for 2) I agree, it pisses me off entirely, ruined that section of the film for me.

monkeyfudge

I agree too.

I liked the stlye of the film. It took a little bit of getting used too the film though as I found the opening monolague and subsequent dialogue to be awful.. but it just sort of seem to be the style of the thing and I found I got used to it after a while.

I found alot of the nazi smybolism troubling though, but I guess it was using it in the same sort of way that the likes of the Sex Pistols would wear swastikas for shock value.

I don't really care about the whole Irish thing as I've seen Hollywood treat us to far worse stereotypes in the past.

I did find the whole film had a sort of misogynistic vibe to it too. All the stories seemed to be about big strong men feeling it was their duty to protect the weak little women, even when those women happened to be kick-ass ninjas and stuff.

I guess all this is down to the source material which is probably a little bit dated by this stage.

LundiMardi

spoilers anyone? I've seen the film but anyone who hasn't will probably be mighty pissed off.

Fysh

1) The supposedly nazi symbolism is present in the comics too. I have no idea if there's any ulterior motive to it, but if it is it's very much down to personal interpretation. I would've assumed the following personally:

a)Gail has that collar as part of her work wardrobe. She's a hooker specialising in S&M; it's not unfeasible that some people might find it a turn on.

b)Miho and the shuriken...well, I've seen various shapes for shurikens, and the symbol used by the Nazis does have a lot more history than they'd like to give it credit for. Possibly a reference to this?

c)The thug who gets shot with the arrows - I thought it was just to emphasise the "hired thug" aspect of this character.

But that's just me.

As for the "irish stereotypes"...come on lads, it's not like every other character in the film wasn't a stereotype of some sort. The whole point of the film (and the comics) is that they're a pastiche of pulp noir/detective fiction. Hence the whole pseudo-mysoginistic vibe (the women can make it for themselves, but only as whores) which Miller rips the piss out of by making the women better able to defend themselves on a day-to-day basis than most of the men claiming to look out for them.

Hence Hartigan as the do-gooder gumshoe alone in his quest to take down the sick scumbag. Hence Dwight's improbable concern about making sure Jackieboy doesn't hurt anyone.

Or at least, that's how I took it.

ObeyGiant

Wikipedia:

The swastika used in Buddhist art and scripture is known in Japanese as a manji, and represents Dharma, universal harmony, and the balance of opposites.

RE*AC*TOR

I'm with Fysh on this one - the Irish stereotype was justified in the context of this movie. Everything is caricatured. Its hardly like the Devils Own now is it?

Necronomicon

As for the Nazi symbolism, for me I think it was just something that Frank Miller used in the comics to help get across what kind of city it was. I've also read that the Swastika has been known to represent female empowerment(although not sure how true this is)......which would fit into the whole theme, the women owning Old Town etc.
As for the Irish stereotype, didn't really bother me, seen it done by Hollywood so many times now you kinda get used to it.

Gegerty

ObeyGiant wrote:

Wikipedia:

Exactly. The "nazi" symbol has been around long before the nazi's and is still used in hinduism, although they try not to show it in public due to the obvious offence it causes. The cases in the movie can be justified and from what i remember of Miller from my comic reading days he likes to cause a stir. He also uses Irish characters quite a bit and is a very big fan of Ireland and the Irish people (and guinness) so I seriously doubt any offense is intended here. I've met the guy and have many comics signed by him in my attic. I think people need to lighten up a bit, its a comic book for god sake!

BlitzKrieg

to answer quesion 2, wasnt the original comic book written in the early ninties a period where the provesional IRA was slipping in and out of cease fires, it would seem sensible then if you were to represent mercenaries around this period who specilise in explosives then it would be an Ex IRA man or something. Just like when Frank Miller wrote Dark Knight Returns the president in the comic book and the general attitude of the tv networks matched that of the Political climate of the time.


On Question 1, pop into Forbiddon Planet, if our in dublin and pick up Blade of The Immortal, dont need to buy it, just read the introduction which explains the importance of the swatsika and how the nazi's perverted it.


or you can just read that wikipedia quote...*grumble*