The all in with the nuts phenomenon

NickyOD

This week has been extremely stressful. I feel like I'm playing great poker, but over the last 15,000 hands I've actually lost money on Empire. I'm not going to bitch about the bad beats. I have been lucky on a few occasions but the bad beats have outweighed those occasions by a long long way. I'm very stressed out and at a complete loss as to how I can overcome the current bad run.

Overbetting with the buts seems to be the latest craze and I see it posted on every forum now. The problem is on these tables a lot players will make the same move with complete crap. Today I raised out of the BB with Jacks and the button limped reraised me to $55 (This is a .5/1 table). I know he has nothing so I push in for $140. He calls with K6 sooooted and makes a flush. If the same player pushes in on the river when it brings a possible gutshot for someone drawing to a straight and you have a set, how do you NOT call when he pushes in $200 into a $10 pot? How?

I ask you, how do you not go broke here?

***** Hand History for Game 2415827619 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, July 24, 12:45:26 EDT 2005
Table Table 55021 (6 max) (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 3: Move_Money ( $231.32 )
Seat 4: TheSqueeze79 ( $124.10 )
Seat 5: JJCHAMBO75 ( $120.70 )
Seat 6: TonyB720 ( $96.55 )
Seat 1: snoogans222 ( $82.20 )
Move_Money posts small blind [$0.50].
TheSqueeze79 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheSqueeze79 [ 4s 6s ]
>You have options at Table 55002 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
JJCHAMBO75 calls [$1].
snoogans222 folds.
Move_Money calls [$0.50].
TheSqueeze79 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, 7s, 3s ]
Move_Money checks.
TheSqueeze79 checks.
JJCHAMBO75 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Td ]
Move_Money checks.
TheSqueeze79 bets [$2].
>You have options at Table 55039 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
JJCHAMBO75 folds.
Move_Money calls [$2].
>You have options at Table 55039 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
** Dealing River ** [ Jc ]
Move_Money is all-In [$228.32]
>You have options at Table 55002 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
TheSqueeze79 is all-In [$121.10]
Move_Money shows [ 9s, 8h ] a straight, seven to jack.
TheSqueeze79 doesn't show [ 4s, 6s ] a straight, three to seven.
Move_Money wins $107.22 from side pot #1 with a straight, seven to jack.
Move_Money wins $247.20 from the main pot with a straight, seven to jack.

Hectorjelly

Well if you fold the river you wont go broke. There is hardly anything in the pot and hes representing the nuts. If he happens to be bluffing then fair play to him, if hes going to risk $228 to win $15 on a bluff then you will get his money sooner or later. Obviously its easier said than done though, heres a hand I played on Saturday. I was annoyed and playing badly - if I was playing well I would of folded.

I have 66 on the BB. The flop is 6 7 A with two hearts. I bet out $10. Utg calls. Turn is a T. I bet $20 and he goes all in for about $100 more. What type of idiot would have 89 utg I think and call. He has 89. River is a 6.

roryc

Ive noticed people doing that all in with the nuts move lately. Only in online though. I did it myself, going all in for $70 with aa with an As Kc 2h flop. got called by K 2 and A 10.

theres nothin much you can do to defend against it, as i could have had AA, KK, 22 or any two pair. ive noticed a few of people massiveley overbetting a small pot and winning big with the nuts. Its an unexpected move! Your kicking yourself if it doesnt work though...

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

Well if you fold the river you wont go broke. There is hardly anything in the pot and hes representing the nuts. If he happens to be bluffing then fair play to him, if hes going to risk $228 to win $15 on a bluff then you will get his money sooner or later. Obviously its easier said than done though, heres a hand I played on Saturday. I was annoyed and playing badly - if I was playing well I would of folded.

I have 66 on the BB. The flop is 6 7 A with two hearts. I bet out $10. Utg calls. Turn is a T. I bet $20 and he goes all in for about $100 more. What type of idiot would have 89 utg I think and call. He has 89. River is a 6.

Yeah given the fact that I had only put $3 in the pot a laydown is possible but I think hell would freeze over before I make a helmuthian laydown with the second nuts against a player who could be making this move with a slowplayed set or nothing at all. Long term I think this would be a very profitable call so I just have to shrug and add to his notes.

I would basically never ever push with a monster unless I know my oponent will call with a huge range. Value betting just seems to be unheard of online cash games at the moment. It's rather irritating. :mad:

Hectorjelly

NickyOD wrote:

Yeah given the fact that I had only put $3 in the pot a laydown is possible but I think hell would freeze over before I make a helmuthian laydown with the second nuts against a player who could be making this move with a slowplayed set or nothing at all. Long term I think this would be a very profitable call so I just have to shrug and add to his notes.

I would basically never ever push with a monster unless I know my oponent will call with a huge range. Value betting just seems to be unheard of online cash games at the moment. It's rather irritating. :mad:

Would he make the move with a slowplayed set? If so then its a tough decision. In general though its only the nuts that are played this way.

Pushing on the river is a great tactic because it means you can distort the pot size.

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

Would he make the move with a slowplayed set? If so then its a tough decision. In general though its only the nuts that are played this way.

He moved all in against a player with $70 left on a flop KK6 with A6 and the other player had an easy call with KQ.

You are probably right though. Given the action I could have folded.

mewso

Got caught by this tonight in the 25k on VC. MP player goes all-in for 25k. I have 29k on the BB and have pockets 10s. I call he has Aces. He hits trips and so do I. I think it was a bad call on my part but live and learn. Right now I'm very angry with myself.

RoundTower

Look at it from his point of view: if he bets the pot $6, and you call him every time, he wins $6. If he bets $120, and you call him even one time in 10, he wins twice that much.

And the river didn't bring a gutshot straight, it brought an open ended one. I call you or raise you every time with his hand on the turn.

NickyOD

RoundTower wrote:

And the river didn't bring a gutshot straight, it brought an open ended one

Yes I know what an open ender is. I wasn't referring to the HH in the post. Sorry that wasn't clear.