Sky and VoIP

ac00785

Sky are discriminating against those of us that have a VoIP telephone connection (Blueface) as the Sky box will not callback using it. This is becoming more popular and Sky are going to have to be more accomadating. I have to return my new multiroom box as call back willl not work even though the box says the telephone line is connected!! Sky say the alternative is to pay the full price for the mirror sub! I dont think so!! Isn't value for money with one box!!

pH

It's just not possible to put a 56k modem over this type of voice compression. The timing and bandwidth just aren't there.

Anyway, even if it worked sky would have to stop it straight away as the caller ID would no longer mean that box boxes were in the same house.

Sparky

why dont sky invent some sort of tcp/ip connection on the box for broadband

watty

Should fall back to 33, 28, 22, 19K etc. I suspect the VOIP interface you have doesn't prperly emulate POTS. On Broadband it shuld work. ALL voice / date is only 64K per line at the exchange even on Analog.

pH

watty wrote:

Should fall back to 33, 28, 22, 19K etc. I suspect the VOIP interface you have doesn't prperly emulate POTS. On Broadband it shuld work. ALL voice / date is only 64K per line at the exchange even on Analog.

http://www.voip-info.org/tiki-index.php?page=Modem+over+VOIP

If you are replacing an analog PSTN line with VOIP service, in addition to ordinary phones, there may be other devices that contain data modems that were using the PSTN line. Examples are: Tivo, POS Terminals, FAX machines, etc.

The problem is that the codecs used by VOIP ATAs are designed to compress voice, not the analog signals sent and received by modems. A second problem is if a non-compressing codec? is used, the transmission will be very sensitve to network QoS, i.e. packet loss, jitter, and latency will be issues. To sucessfully use data modems over a VOIP connection you will need a minimum of:

* A non-compressing codec - ITU G.711 is the usual choice
* A very high quality network connection


In order to make modem connections less sensitive to network QoS problems, rather than passing through the modems signals over the VOIP connection, the signals can be converted (de-modulated) at the VOIP ATA and sent as data over the network to the far end where they are converted (re-modulated) back to their original form. This method has the advantage that the data transmission over the network does not require a high QoS.

For FAXs T.38 is the standard for relaying FAX data accross IP networks.
Many VOIP endpoints/ATAs now support T.38 but many VOIP Service Providers do not support T.38 or are in the process of implementing it.

For Modems the ITU approved ITU V.150.1 (also know as V.MOIP) in January 2003. This standard defines how to relay modem data accross IP networks. This standard is not implemented yet in most VOIP equipment.

watty

Thanks pH.

Anyways for me, I don't regard VOIP on wireless Broadband an excuse to ditch Eircom fixed line unless at least Fax and 19K modem works.

Sometimes Fax is needed and occasionally non-Internet direct dialup modem access to IT admin (sometimes PCAnywhere is used).

David Stewart

And don't forget, you can't call the emergency services over VOIP

ac00785

David Stewart wrote:

And don't forget, you can't call the emergency services over VOIP

You can with Blueface!

bk

Sometimes Fax is needed and occasionally non-Internet direct dialup modem access to IT admin (sometimes PCAnywhere is used).

There are standards to allow fax operate over VoIP, however I don't think Blueface operate it yet. However they do operate a fax to email, email to fax gateway, so if you don't use fax much, it isn't a big deal.

Your IT admin should really move to a VPN setup which can operate over BB, it would also be more secure. Most IT companies have dumped their modem pools for staff working from home and use VPN now.

And don't forget, you can't call the emergency services over VOIP

Yes you can, just like you can with a mobile.

The one thing you forgot was Eircom phonewatch alarm systems, however they can also operate over a mobile (at extra cost).

BTW I have a Tivo which with a little hacking works just fine over TCP/IP.

It seems incredibly stupid that Sky continue to only work over a phone line, given that so many people today are dropping their phone lines in favour of mobiles. It is a block to many people who might otherwise be interested in getting Sky. I suppose most just turn to NTL instead, silly.

Sin e an Fear

Glad to see the VoIP issue being discussed here - it was always a question of when it would arise. I suspect Sky want to prevent people using VoIP to pretend they're in Ireland or the UK when they're not.

Blueface are bound by ComReg in not allowing subscribers a Dublin 01 number unless they already have one, or a VoIP 076 number unless they live in the State. That said, once you get the service you can take it an use it anywhere.

The US VoIP company Vonage is advertising its UK service on RTE's website. I contacted them about this, but it appeared that they had difficulty appreciating that RTE was a broadcaster in another country, which didn't use sterling, and in which Vonage didn't actually offer its service. :rolleyes:

watty

I suspect that Sky has just done nothing rather than having an objection to VOIP per se.

Ireland is almost unique in having FALLING percent of landline usage. It is due to cost almost twice European Average and poor service. The Irish Times today had a Broadband Comparison, but it did NOT differentiate cost of landline on outside Ireland BB rates (e.g. Spain) nor no need for landline cost on the Wireless Broadband or Cable TV broadband. So it was a useless comparison.

I experimented with streaming FTA Satellite "as is" today. You would need near 10Mbps broadband to have your own virtual remote Satellite receiver on Holiday! 11mps WiFi is too slow as it can barely do the 2.5 to 5Mmbps needed.

Sin e an Fear

I experimented with streaming FTA Satellite "as is" today.

Slightly off-topic, but of interest nevertheless. What software were you using? This one? SlingBox looks good, but it's not yet available in PAL. TV2Me looks even better, but at US$4750 plus shipping, it ain't cheap.

bk

Sin e an Fear wrote:

SlingBox looks good, but it's not yet available in PAL.

You don't need a PAL version of Slingbox, the NTSC version will work just fine for Sky.

PAL/NTSC in Slingbox is only about the aerial tuner in it, it can take any type through it's video inputs.

BTW I believe a PAL version will be released before the end of the year.

yankinlk

Back on topic. glad to see watty is on the case here, i suspect my VOIP/Sky problem will finally get fixed!

I have Blueface and a Grandstream TA. Never had an eircom landline, never plan on getting one. Got the SKY+ threatening letters (6) and tried to get the VOIP thing going to use it. Nothing so far has seemed to work, it dials the number, over and over again.

Is there anything i can try?

BB is Powernet and handytone is behind a dlink firewall. It works fine for phoning and recving calls, just not sky.

yankinlk

Advanced Options:
Preferred Vocoder:
(in listed order) choice 1: current setting is " PCMU" G.723.1 G.729A/B PCMU PCMA iLBC G.726-32 G.728
choice 2: current setting is " PCMA" G.723.1 G.729A/B PCMU PCMA iLBC G.726-32 G.728
choice 3: current setting is " PCMU" G.723.1 G.729A/B PCMU PCMA iLBC G.726-32 G.728
choice 4: current setting is " PCMU" G.723.1 G.729A/B PCMU PCMA iLBC G.726-32 G.728
choice 5: current setting is " PCMU" G.723.1 G.729A/B PCMU PCMA iLBC G.726-32 G.728
choice 6: current setting is " PCMU" G.723.1 G.729A/B PCMU PCMA iLBC G.726-32 G.728
choice 7: current setting is " PCMU" G.723.1 G.729A/B PCMU PCMA iLBC G.726-32 G.728
G723 rate: 6.3kbps encoding rate 5.3kbps encoding rate
iLBC frame size: 20ms 30ms
iLBC payload type: (between 96 and 127, default is 97)
Silence Suppression: No Yes
Voice Frames per TX: (up to 10/20/32/64 for G711/G726/G723/other codecs respectively)
Fax Mode: T.38 (Auto Detect) Pass-Through
Layer 3 QoS: (Diff-Serv or Precedence value)
Layer 2 QoS (VoIP): 802.1Q/VLAN Tag 802.1p priority value (0-7)
Layer 2 QoS (PC): 802.1Q/VLAN Tag 802.1p priority value (0-7)
Use DNS SRV: No Yes
User ID is phone number: No Yes
SIP Registration: Yes No
Unregister On Reboot: Yes No
Register Expiration: (in minutes. default 1 hour, max 45 days)
Early Dial: No Yes (use "Yes" only if proxy supports 484 response)
Dial Plan Prefix: (this prefix string is added to each dialed number)
No Key Entry Timeout: (in seconds, default is 4 seconds)
Use # as Dial Key: No Yes (if set to Yes, "#" will function as the "(Re-)Dial" key)
local SIP port: (default 5060)
local RTP port: (1024-65535, default 5004)
Use random port: No Yes
NAT Traversal: No
Yes, STUN server is: (URI or IP:port)
keep-alive interval: (in seconds, default 20 seconds)
Use NAT IP (if specified, this IP address is used in SIP/SDP message)
Proxy-Require: (if specified, the content will appear in Proxy-Require header)
Firmware Upgrade: Via TFTP Server . . .
Via HTTP Server
Automatic HTTP Upgrade:
No Yes, check for upgrade every days (default 7 days)
SUBSCRIBE for MWI: No, do not send SUBSCRIBE for Message Waiting Indication
Yes, send periodical SUBSCRIBE for Message Waiting Indication
Offhook Auto-Dial: (User ID/extension to dial automatically when offhook)
Enable Call Features: No Yes (if Yes, Call Forwarding & Call-Waiting-Disable are supported locally)
Disable Call-Waiting: No Yes
Send DTMF: in-audio via RTP (RFC2833) via SIP INFO
DTMF Payload Type:
Send Flash Event: No Yes (Flash will be sent as a DTMF event if set to Yes)
FXS Impedance: current setting is " 600 Ohm (North America)" 600 Ohm (North America) 900 Ohm 600 Ohm + 2.16uF 900 Ohm + 2.16uF CTR21 (270 Ohm + 750 Ohm||150nF) Australia/New Zealand #1 (220 Ohm + 820 Ohm||120nF) Slovakia/Slovenia/South Africa (220 Ohm + 820 Ohm||115nF) New Zealand #2 (370 Ohm + 620 Ohm||310nF)
Caller ID Scheme: current setting is " Bellcore" Bellcore (North America) ETSI-FSK (France, Germany, Norway, Taiwan, UK-CCA) ETSI-DTMF (Finland, Sweden) Denmark-DTMF CID-Canada
Onhook Voltage: current setting is " 36V" 18V 24V 36V 48V 51V
Polarity Reversal: No Yes (reverse polarity upon call establishment and termination)
NTP Server: (URI or IP address)
Send Anonymous: No Yes (caller ID will be blocked if set to Yes)
Lock keypad update: No Yes (configuration update via keypad is disabled if set to Yes)
Special Feature: current setting is "Standard" Standard Nortel MCS Broadsoft Howdy
WAN Side HTTP Access: No Yes (WAN side access to http server will be rejected if set to No)
PSTN Access Code: (key pattern to use the PSTN line, default is "*00")
Syslog Server:
Syslog Level: current setting is "NONE" NONE DEBUG INFO WARNING ERROR

Strasser

Sorry I don't understand much about this VOIP stuff. Can anyone tell me if I download and use Skype will it have any consequences for my SKY + mirrow sub callback function, I have eircom home broadband package, thanks in anticipation.

Blaster99

None what so ever. On a landline, the broadband and the voice (used by Sky) are two completely different things separated with filters. You can make phone calls while you're using your broadband connection, so the Digiboxes can do their thing. This thread is about people who have gotten rid of their phone lines and use broadband over wireless with VoIP.

macronot

Hi Everybody,

Do you know if there has been any update on this?

I'm thinking of changing my Broadband over to cable and getting rid of the land line. Then hooking up my sky HD box phone connection to skype.

Thanks
M

watty

use UPC's built in phone line connection, not Skype. It may or may not work.