Paddle Shift Gearboxes

jamieh

Hey all,

I'm thinking about buying a new car that has sn "F1 SMG Paddle Shift" gearbox. Anyone have anyone idea how they work? Would the car be an automatic or manual? Seemingly, there's no clutch pedal, but you've still got to change gears!!??

prospect

Yep,

I had a Stilo Abarth for a wekend once, it had paddle shift gears, and I liked them. (Although there wasa novelty/experimenting factor)

The car had three gear change options:

1. Paddles - You lift your foot off the accelerator for a brief moment, and paddle up or down. The current gear was displayed on the dash board, in case you forgot. (reverse was one step below neutral).

2. Tip Shift - You lift your foot off the accelerator for a brief moment, and you literally tipped the gear lever forwards, or backwards to select gear. The current gear was displayed on the dash board, in case you forgot. (reverse was one step below neutral).

3. Full Auto, Same as any other automatic car.

unkel

jamieh wrote:

I'm thinking about buying a new car that has sn "F1 SMG Paddle Shift" gearbox

What car?

mike65

BMW or maybe a Ferrari!

Mike.

VeVeX

I would steer clear of the Paddle Gearboxes if I were you. These boxes are still a manual gearbox with an automated clutch so in essence theres electronics between you and the gear change. Even on Ferrari and BMW's this technology has yet to be perfected for everyday driving, it may work fantastic on a track but around town driving and parking would be another days work.

Fiat have yet to perfect a bog standard 5 speed, God only knows how long it would be before you need the fiat f1 pits with that gearbox.

Squirrel

What about the VAG DSG 'box?

I always thought SMG was the Mercedes way of saying it, must have been wrong.

drdre

jamieh what car are you gettin.:D

impr0v

M3?

ando

jordan f1 car?

iregk

Id agree with Vevex here. Paddle shifts are terrible for normal driving. Sure they may be great on an F1 car but lets not forget the gear box on that car is worth more than an average family saloon on its own!

The 360 and even the DB9 both have woeful paddle shifts and usually need clutch replacements after about 30k miles.

jamieh

Hey lads,

I'm plannin on gettin an M3....unfortunatley not a DB9 or an Enzo

Squirrel

jamieh wrote:

Hey lads,

I'm plannin on gettin an M3....unfortunatley not a DB9 or an Enzo

I wish I could get an M3

Anyway, would a normal manual not be a more involving drive, then again the paddles would be nice on long runs.

Barr

I say go for it, look at Formula 1 , WRC cars , its the way of the future
I drive a tiptronic tho not quite the same as a paddle shift the principle is much the same , auto mode for lazy days or city driving , and a manual mode for more control if the need arises
Besides its a great talkin point down the pub

ds20prefecture

The M3, like the Alfa and Ferrari take on semi-auto, is basically a manual gearbox with a clutch, just operated electro-hydraulically or electronically. The Tiptronic/SMG is an automatic gearbox (i.e. a torque converter) with a manual override. Nissan & Smart use an artificially stepped continuously variable transmission (CVT) to some good effect. The DSG is a manual gearbox with pre-selection - like the M3, except the next gear up or down is already selected.

Slush-matic torque converters have recently got to be very good in terms of response as to be the defacto standard. The DSG has somewhat thrown the cat among the pigeons (always a lot of fun, particularly for the cat). The M3's system is regarded as "gay" by the red-blooded tossers who write car magazine reviews.

Historically, every variation has been tried - my DS has fully hydraulic gear and clutch actuation. Renault and Chrysler and Ford used electrically switched systems, and DAF were first with CVT, the only proper transmission.

AMurphy

These "paddle" or "auto-stick" are fully fledged Multiclutch Electronic Automatic controlled gearboxes, not much in common with your clutch + 5 sp manual Synchro, or the mechanical/adjustable band brake type A/T used in the 60's
They have their own Transmission ECU or it may be partially or wholly integrated with the EFI ECU.
The fact that you can switch them to fully auto suggests that they ARE full auto with a manual override, not a manual with an automatic override.

btw, ZF had a Torque Converter with lockup option on MB trucks about 30 years ago, just to make driving ReadyMix trucks etc in traffic a little easier.
WV had (probably ZF again) a TC+clutch + 3sp auto-clutch manual in the Beatle.
Ford had a manual type called Selecto-Matic on tractors in the 70's and several tractors used manual variants of this technology about then also.
MF diggers for one.
Don't confuse this with the Variable Pump Hydraulic transmissions IH and a few other may have had or the MultiPower MF had.

As these paddle controls are wired-in electronic switches, you could use any switch, placed anywhere, even a wireless remote if you wanted a challenge.

Whether they are the fixed gear geared type or the Nissan CVT type is irrevelant, they are electronically controlled. You input your requirement and the ECU does the shifting. eg, throw it into Rev while traveling forward at speed and see what happens, nothing disasterous.

I took a test spin in a BMW 330 with this Auto-Stick feature and though it quiet good compared to a regular auto.
however, when compared to the Auto box on the Infinity 35 which has the same CVT box as the Murano, The changes on the Infinity/Murano are unbelievably smooth compared to multi-disk clutch packs which the BMW uses.

Cond0r

SMG stands for Sequential Manual Gearbox, and is basically a manual gearbox with a hydraulic clutch controlled by the onboard computer. Achieving gear changes in 80milliseconds.. and when downshifting will even match the revs, like heel-toe changing.

Very cool gearbox

Some flakey explanations here and here.

$lash

When all is said and done you still can't beat a manual with a clutch -

Any less involvement in the driving experience isn't a good thing in my book...

fletch

$lash wrote:

When all is said and done you still can't beat a manual with a clutch -

Any less involvement in the driving experience isn't a good thing in my book...

Agreed! Except on the M50 where I would kill for an auto in traffic

ds20prefecture

$lash wrote:

When all is said and done you still can't beat a manual with a clutch -

Any less involvement in the driving experience isn't a good thing in my book...

We should get rid of synchromesh then too....

jozi

IF i could afford to buy such a car as a M3 (one of my favs) i'd go manual all the way.

I never drove a automatic (or paddle shift) so untill then my opinion stays as is.

jozi

/me dreams about owning a M3

unkel

ds20prefecture wrote:

DAF were first with CVT

Indeed, in the DAF 600 introduced in 1958. DAF called it Variomatic

Bet ya didn't know that Ford tried to take over DAF in 1969 to add a small car to their range. DAF refused as they thought they could stay independent. Ford then developed it's own small car instead - the Fiesta

ds20prefecture wrote:

We should get rid of synchromesh then too....

Touché

HashSlinging

Maybe if you were planing to go around mondello a few times in it, otherwise it would be a waste. It wouldn't put me off at all though, depends on what your after. Personally I'd get it just for bragging rights. :cool:

AMurphy

Cond0r wrote:

SMG stands for Sequential Manual Gearbox, and is basically a manual gearbox with a hydraulic clutch controlled by the onboard computer. Achieving gear changes in 80milliseconds.. and when downshifting will even match the revs, like heel-toe changing.

.....

There's more to this than meets the eye. 80ms is a very short time to move the traditional synch gears as used in a normal box.

So while it may resemble a traditional mechanical box, I have a suspicion it has dispensed with the traditional synchros and a few other manual bits and may have more in common with a motorbike box.

well, if any of ye are changing a bearing in one of these take lots of pix. Meanwhile I see a high tech X-country cycle with a 6 speed internal gearbox, just like the 50 yo "Sturmy Archer" hub gears.

$lash

ds20prefecture wrote:

We should get rid of synchromesh then too....

Yep ... why not ...