poker etiquette (rant)

kinaldo

fcuk it, no more, i'm sick of poker etiquette

all i wanted was to win back my €110 buy in from tonight's fitz game

within 3 hands mission accomplished

instead of leaving i hang around for an obscene amount of bad beats and end up losing €400

one hand i had aces and bet the pot someone called me with QJ (wtf!) and rivered 2 pair for a €400 pot

then he said he knew I had aces! i figure he's trying to wind me up here so I let him have it, I called him a muppet and ridiculed his play. Fist time I've ever verbally abused someone at the table but he deserved it and I'm not sorry.

In another huge pot I had AQ vs KT (wtf!) vs JJ €150 all in preflop

flop KQx turn Q river K

at least i wasn't subjected to more gloating although he did try to get away with just showing a King

from now on if anyone ever shows me one card again i'll ask to see the other no matter what and next time I'm winning I'm leaving fcuk this etiquette ****

kinaldo

although the verbal abuse i dished out was nothing in comparrison to what Tom and Adam received from Pat during the tournament that was unreal he was way out of line and anyone who witnessed it I'm sure would agree

DeVore

I was playing well last night and could feel myself going on tilt from the row so I just stopped having it. Pat was waaaay out of line and the way the tournaments are going in the Fitz, I dont know. I miss Luke! Kinaldo, were you at my table?

I dont see anything wrong with getting up and leaving when you are up. 3 hands or no three hands. I probably would sit a round of the table and then go but dont feel you have to play for an hour or two. I've had nights I was up 650 and left after less than an hour.

DeV.

jtsuited

i actually get a great feeling out of sitting down to a cash game, playing one hand, winning a huge pot, and then getting up and leaving.
If someone actually had the nerve to have a go at me for doin this, i couldn't give a ****. Think of all the money you save in the long run.

Enlighten us on the row that happened.

DeVore

I've put up a report on my nights play on Antesup

It doesnt contain anything about Pat Vickers rudeness as I didnt think it was worth the coverage (honestly, it didnt strike me as something worth writing about).

In short, he repeatedly acted out of turn and then threw a spastic attack. On a couple of occasions the man to his right said "raise" and then paused to consider the amount. Pat would then pushed all his chips in immediately before any amount was declared on one occasion I was still in the pot (with a pair of 8's). Now, if the guy raises big I'll reraise him as I think he's at it, if he raises big and Pat goes all in (for not much) I may well call too as I could do nicely from that pot. Instead the guy gets scared off and declares the minimum amount. Now I have him acting after me and Pat's all in ahead of me and I lay it down, chiding pat for doing that.

Then he does it twice more each time with more voices on the table added to mine remonstrating him. When Adam asked him to be polite and wait in turn he started f-ing everyone out of it, particularly myself and Adam in a disgraceful fashion.

I have to say, I've been a big fan of the Fitz for a long time but lately its gone to the dogs. No rulings (the poor lad who was on the floor last night wasnt up to handling this). No respect for the dealers from the players (this isnt the first time a dealer has been abused verbally in there). Sloppy tournament organisation on any night that Luke Ivory isnt there.

Last night was the first night I thought "I dont need this sort of sh*t" which made me sad.

I sat in my chair and shut my mouth and did nothing, primaraily because I was playing well and didnt want to go on tilt. The other thing was that if I did something it was going to lead to Garda involvement and I didnt want all that hassle.

DeV.

NickyOD

I have to confess I'm not someone who handles stress very well, which certainly doesn't bode well for my future career in poker. The only reason I bring an iPod to the table is so I can turn it on when someone is talking bollocks and putting me on tilt. Bad plays don't bother me half as much as a player who has no manners. I was close to swinging for a card catching drunk in a STT in the city west who raped everyone at the table and after busting each player snidely said " see ya now, take care" not one bit sincere. You really had to be there to see the vein on my forehead ready to explode across the length of the conference room. That's the kind of **** people should be pulled up on in cardrooms.

Davey Devil

kinaldo wrote:

one hand i had aces and bet the pot someone called me with QJ (wtf!) and rivered 2 pair for a €400 pot

then he said he knew I had aces! i figure he's trying to wind me up here so I let him have it, I called him a muppet and ridiculed his play. Fist time I've ever verbally abused someone at the table but he deserved it and I'm not sorry.

In another huge pot I had AQ vs KT (wtf!) vs JJ €150 all in preflop

flop KQx turn Q river K

at least i wasn't subjected to more gloating although he did try to get away with just showing a King

from now on if anyone ever shows me one card again i'll ask to see the other no matter what and next time I'm winning I'm leaving fcuk this etiquette ****

Surely I'm not the only person who thinks that it's you that has bad poker etiquette. This guy is obviously a bad player, someone who you love to have on a table. If he says he thought you had aces that even re-inforces the fact that he's a terrible player. When he plays like you expect him too, you verbally abuse him? Doubt you'd give him shìt if he lost the pot and said, "I thought you had aces". Would you feel it's in your interests to tell him how poor his play is then? In my opinion what he said is not bad etiiqute but you giving him shìt is. Your the one with the problem and your antics scare other fish from coming back. Good players don't appriciate that.

In the other pot a player tried to get away with showing one card? Big deal, he probably wasn't familar with the rules. Maybe the reason you have a problem with that is because you committed all your money preflop with AQ. You lambast other players on their play and then you chuck it in with AQ pre-flop? Perhaps you should concentrate on your own game.

kinaldo

Davey Devil wrote:

Surely I'm not the only person who thinks that it's you that has bad poker etiquette. This guy is obviously a bad player, someone who you love to have on a table. If he says he thought you had aces that even re-inforces the fact that he's a terrible player. When he plays like you expect him too, you verbally abuse him? Doubt you'd give him shìt if he lost the pot and said, "I thought you had aces". Would you feel it's in your interests to tell him how poor his play is then? In my opinion what he said is not bad etiiqute but you giving him shìt is. Your the one with the problem and your antics scare other fish from coming back. Good players don't appriciate that.

In the other pot a player tried to get away with showing one card? Big deal, he probably wasn't familar with the rules. Maybe the reason you have a problem with that is because you committed all your money preflop with AQ. You lambast other players on their play and then you chuck it in with AQ pre-flop? Perhaps you should concentrate on your own game.

exactly, it is me with the bad etiquette, and from now on I no longer care if it offends anyone. if someone is gonna try and wind me up after I've lost a big pot then I'll have a go at them bad play or no bad play. As for my AQ play all I can say is that was one last desperate attempt to win some money back and in short I was gambling.

kinaldo

DeVore wrote:

I was playing well last night and could feel myself going on tilt from the row so I just stopped having it. Pat was waaaay out of line and the way the tournaments are going in the Fitz, I dont know. I miss Luke! Kinaldo, were you at my table?

I dont see anything wrong with getting up and leaving when you are up. 3 hands or no three hands. I probably would sit a round of the table and then go but dont feel you have to play for an hour or two. I've had nights I was up 650 and left after less than an hour.

DeV.

I was at your table for only a few hands, stuck in between Joan and Pat. Couldn't win a pot, twice all in with AQ up against AQ each time. For some reason I just can't win with that hand. Was Pat drunk or something? Normally that guy's a good laugh at the table.

Davey Devil

Oh right, I get you now. If he was trying to piss you off, just ignore him.

I don't think it's good for anyone's game to become one of those bitter players. People who can't control their emotions don't make good players.

kinaldo

Davey Devil]

your antics scare other fish from coming back. Good players don't appriciate that.

i don't think my tongue is sharp enought to scare anyone from coming back, least of all the fish, and not to mention my play either.

Davey Devil

Lol, depends what you said. It's like what Tom said. If there is a feeling of no control being taken and players are mouthing off, it's not a nice experiance for players never mind new players who might think that abusing other players is the norm. They will most likely not come back.

ocallagh

DeVore wrote:

I've put up a report on my nights play on Antesup

It doesnt contain anything about Pat Vickers rudeness as I didnt think it was worth the coverage (honestly, it didnt strike me as something worth writing about).

In short, he repeatedly acted out of turn and then threw a spastic attack. On a couple of occasions the man to his right said "raise" and then paused to consider the amount. Pat would then pushed all his chips in immediately before any amount was declared on one occasion I was still in the pot (with a pair of 8's). Now, if the guy raises big I'll reraise him as I think he's at it, if he raises big and Pat goes all in (for not much) I may well call too as I could do nicely from that pot. Instead the guy gets scared off and declares the minimum amount. Now I have him acting after me and Pat's all in ahead of me and I lay it down, chiding pat for doing that.

Then he does it twice more each time with more voices on the table added to mine remonstrating him. When Adam asked him to be polite and wait in turn he started f-ing everyone out of it, particularly myself and Adam in a disgraceful fashion.

I have to say, I've been a big fan of the Fitz for a long time but lately its gone to the dogs. No rulings (the poor lad who was on the floor last night wasnt up to handling this). No respect for the dealers from the players (this isnt the first time a dealer has been abused verbally in there). Sloppy tournament organisation on any night that Luke Ivory isnt there.

Last night was the first night I thought "I dont need this sort of sh*t" which made me sad.

I sat in my chair and shut my mouth and did nothing, primaraily because I was playing well and didnt want to go on tilt. The other thing was that if I did something it was going to lead to Garda involvement and I didnt want all that hassle.

DeV.

I agree with you Tom, I didn't feel comfortable in the fitz last night. it was a strange atmosphere.. Pat was way out of line. He has a fierce temper

mewso

I was lucky then to be downstairs although a certain player (similar nickname to a famous general) was in a foul humour. Apart from that I was happy enough - made €150.

Culchie

O'Callagh, in the last year or so I'd say that the fitz has just become so popular it would be hard to believe a year ago.

Do the 'veterans' welcome the new poker generation into their club, and upsetting what would have been quite a cosy cartel of regular winners beforehand. It must be far harder to be finish ITM now than it was a year ago.

With the 'internet' trained player (and their style of play) hitting the fitz, is this starting to upset the once regular winners ....???

I know the better players would welcome the added prize money, and 'the hard dog for the hard road' means experience will stand to them....but no more than the newbies gets slated for their newbie play at the freerolls, I've seen some terrible play from older players as well. Just because they are over 35 doesn't mean they are good.

It's these players I guess my question is about really ...the ones that made a few quid a year ago being average, now you have to be good to make the money.....so they are losing out....Is it a bone of contention?

Doc Farrell

If you have any kind of problem, with players or otherwise, make a clear direct complaint to Luke only. If he doesn't address it, which is unlikely, there are others who can be approached. But if a player is out of line he will be warned and then taken off the table.
If you are still annoyed i recommend putting it in writing.

The children only get out of order when Luke isn't around and will be chastised if necessary.

don't play their game, it will lead to tears at beddie bye time.

BrendanB

I doubt there are many who would beat the fitz before it's growth who are now losing.

As to the etiquette question, I would hate to see the place become like the internet, where it's considered acceptable to mouth off in the chat box - if a large enough body of players maintain their standards despite others it keeps the place enjoyable. Short of that lets see some 15 minute penalties.

MadsL

f-bomb style?

Corben Dallas

"one hand i had aces and bet the pot someone called me with QJ (wtf!) and rivered 2 pair for a €400 pot

then he said he knew I had aces! i figure he's trying to wind me up here so I let him have it, I called him a muppet and ridiculed his play. Fist time I've ever verbally abused someone at the table but he deserved it and I'm not sorry.

In another huge pot I had AQ vs KT (wtf!) vs JJ €150 all in preflop

flop KQx turn Q river K

at least i wasn't subjected to more gloating although he did try to get away with just showing a King

from now on if anyone ever shows me one card again i'll ask to see the other no matter what and next time I'm winning I'm leaving fcuk this etiquette ****"

After reading this it really sounds that if u ever suffer a bad beat, have yur aces cracked, then its ok then for you to start verablly abusing the other players on the table....right? If he said 'i thought u had Aces',, isnt it another way of saying he was expecting to be beat. and then u complain about AQ being beat by KT er ...what? so everytime u get the top rank hand u always win? is that how poker works for u? wtf?

Poker on the net is really suffering form this, twice in the last few days, ive out drawn players who then bitched on chat about being outdrawn etc. this is the Hellmut effect right there... that if u lose>cry like a baby.

I hope the Fitz is keepin tabs on this, because nothing ruins a good nights poker quicker than a winey bitch who can never get outdrawn and feel its their right to regard everybody at teh table as their inferior and can abuse the other players how they like.

kinaldo

Corben Dallas

so everytime u get the top rank hand u always win? is that how poker works for u? wtf?

in cash games, generally speaking, yes that is how poker works for me. rarely do I try to bluff in pot limit cash. the frequent amount of times I do get outdrawn I do my best to get over it as quickly as possible which is hard to do when that person is laughing and saying stupid things trying to justify their bad play and get under my skin. of course I would never ridicule them otherwise, not to their face anyway.

ocallagh

BrendanB wrote:

I doubt there are many who would beat the fitz before it's growth who are now losing.

As to the etiquette question, I would hate to see the place become like the internet, where it's considered acceptable to mouth off in the chat box - if a large enough body of players maintain their standards despite others it keeps the place enjoyable. Short of that lets see some 15 minute penalties.

i don't know.. i think 15 min penalties will encourage.. at the wsop they were regarded as a bit of a joke. if someone is out of line, i think what des suggested is the best approach. have a chat with luke and ask him to have a word with the player who was out of line. The player will respect this a lot more than any 15 minute ban. If Luke asked me aside for a few minutes to talk about my poker etiquette I would seriously listen to him as would anyone in the fitz.

DeVore

The f-bomb thing *was* a joke. Some people were incredibly rude without using saying fúck and others were penalised for saying "**** yeah!" when they hit a card.

I'd rather Luke took them aside and I must say that one of the directors of the Fitz said it to Luke in my presence later on. I don't think its got anything to do with winning or losing to the new guys, (though I think there is a whiff of that about).

I think its got more to do with manners, intellect and education, or the lack of them.

DeV.

BrendanB

I'm not suggesting any automatic f-bomb penalty, that was and remains insanely simplistic (in the vast majority of cases saying fcuk is aimed at, and offends no-one), merely an clear statement that you can't have dodgy behaviour at a table. A case in point is Hussein, unbelievably obnoxious on a regular basis and has been warned repeated by dealers and floor people, yet no serious action was ever taken. And yet there was a clampdown on people nipping off to the pub for a pint during the break if they missed play? I would suggest that the dealers be entitled to use their judgement in giving an initial warning, and any repeat offence involving calling the floor with a standard 15 min unless there was a strong case not to.

Obviously, I'm a bit out of the loop on recent developments, but I suspect the influx of new players are less likely to be influenced by a quiet word in the ear, and while it might be all very well if you have a dealer like Mick McGuigan or Snowy at a cash table keeping order with a body of regulars, for newer dealers who don't have the respect that comes from doing it for 20 years it might help to have a clear club policy that's ingrained on people from when they walk in the door.

DeVore

Agreed.
Curiously its almost NEVER the new players who are at fault in this sort of thing. Its almost always the "old hands" who feel perfectly entitled to f people out of it, including (as you well know) the dealers.
A harder line should be taken with these people because currently its patently obvious that they can get away with it.

DeV.

califano

DeVore wrote:

It doesnt contain anything about Pat Vickers rudeness as I didnt think it was worth the coverage (honestly, it didnt strike me as something worth writing about).

In short, he repeatedly acted out of turn and then threw a spastic attack. On a couple of occasions the man to his right said "raise" and then paused to consider the amount. Pat would then pushed all his chips in immediately before any amount was declared on one occasion I was still in the pot (with a pair of 8's).
Then he does it twice more each time with more voices on the table added to mine remonstrating him. When Adam asked him to be polite and wait in turn he started f-ing everyone out of it, particularly myself and Adam in a disgraceful fashion.


DeV.

wouldnt it be gas if the man to the right said "raise" then slowly looked at mr tantrum and said "how much chips have you got there"!!.

Benglian

Culchie wrote:

O'Callagh, in the last year or so I'd say that the fitz has just become so popular it would be hard to believe a year ago.

Do the 'veterans' welcome the new poker generation into their club, and upsetting what would have been quite a cosy cartel of regular winners beforehand. It must be far harder to be finish ITM now than it was a year ago.

With the 'internet' trained player (and their style of play) hitting the fitz, is this starting to upset the once regular winners ....???

It's these players I guess my question is about really ...the ones that made a few quid a year ago being average, now you have to be good to make the money.....so they are losing out....Is it a bone of contention?

Not at all...
BUT in fact I have recently realised that I cash much less often in the tournies than I used to do...but the solution was simple...I now rarely play them and instead concentrate on the cash games....

And guys..if someone makes a terrible play and outdraws you for a mountain of cash (a la Tom), smile, tell him nice play and buy in again...because we all know who's going to be up at the end of the year!

I HATE people who think they are GREAT players cussing the muppets for their terrible calls - Don't you realise that these muppets pay your wages month in month out? What ever happened to not biting the hand that feeds....?

If one pot can hurt you THAT much then you shouldn't be playing at that limit, on that table, pure and simple....

Doc Farrell

excellent post. wise words in every sentence.

DeVore

Benglian wrote:

Not at all...
BUT in fact I have recently realised that I cash much less often in the tournies than I used to do...but the solution was simple...I now rarely play them and instead concentrate on the cash games....

And guys..if someone makes a terrible play and outdraws you for a mountain of cash (a la Tom), smile, tell him nice play and buy in again...because we all know who's going to be up at the end of the year!

I HATE people who think they are GREAT players cussing the muppets for their terrible calls - Don't you realise that these muppets pay your wages month in month out? What ever happened to not biting the hand that feeds....?

If one pot can hurt you THAT much then you shouldn't be playing at that limit, on that table, pure and simple....

Urk? You referring to me specifically? Or was that a joke?

DeV.

biteme

DeVore wrote:

Urk? You referring to me specifically? Or was that a joke?

DeV.

I presume he's talking about the other Tom. 100 game player

ionapaul

biteme wrote:

I presume he's talking about the other Tom. 100 game player

He plays the Wednesday €20 rebuy a good bit too...will either have a mountain of chips by the break or be on the cash table!