Dogs on Leads

HOB-it

I was hoping someone could tell me the situation with Dogs of their leeds. Is it actually illegal and if so is it possible to report or alert someone when this isnt happening.

Heres the situation. About a year ago i hit this guys dog with my car as i was turning into a driveway. The guy was walking his two dogs with neither on a lead. The dog was in pretty bad shape and the owner (a middle aged guy) was crying and nearly hysterical so as I didnt know what to do in a situation like this (i'd only been driving a few months) and I was pretty shaken myself overing hitting the animal - I bundled them both into the car and took them to the Vet. I then offered to pay for half the vets fees (i wont tell you how much but it wasnt cheap) as i felt it was the right thing to do.

Now after this I learned that I was in the right and this guy was totally in the wrong for not having his dog on a lead. Can anyone tell me if this is true?

Now i dont regret paying half the Vets fees as the dog is now well, but the worse thing is that i continuously see this guy walking his two dogs (they're pretty old and cant keep up with him) around the town without any leads for them. I even saw them on the bypass (a dual carriage way) around the town.

Its the animals I feel sorry for because they ARE going to get hit again. They're so old they can't keep up with him. This guy professes he loves his dogs but wont put them on a lead. I've approached him over this only a few months ago but to no avail.

As well as that its insulting to me aswell because I did the right thing - not many people would - and he continuously flaunts his disregard for the safety of his animals and other drivers.

Is there anyway I can get a warning or something to kick this guy in the ass and make him think about what hes doing

Alun

From the Control of Dogs Act

9.—(1) The owner or any other person in charge of a dog shall not permit the dog to be in any place other than—

( a ) the premises of the owner, or

( b ) the premises of such other person in charge of the dog, or

( c ) the premises of any other person, with the consent of that person,

unless such owner or such other person in charge of the dog accompanies it and keeps it under effectual control.

The key here is the weasel phrase "effectual control". I'm not quite sure whether they mean "on a lead" here, but if they do, then they should say so IMO.

Dyr

Having just seen some stupid bint manage to almost cream a cat that was sat in the MIDDLE in our parking area (why the sfuk does she have to peg it into a cul de sac just to drop someone off?) Im not really favourably inclined to people in cars whining about pets right now


If i was you id worry more about your own role in this accident. just be glad it was a pooch you managed to cream and not a nipper.

HOB-it

Bambi

Can you please keep those kind of opinions to yourself or discuss them in another thread. Your not actually adding to the discussion here.

Animals get hit by cars everyday of the week - its a fact of life. Moaning to me to me about hitting one of hundreds of dogs who get run down on the road may make you feel good but its not going to change a single thing and its not what Im asking in this thread

And if you didnt gather from my first posting i am genuinely concerned about the animals well being. Dont assume to tell me that i should be grateful i didnt hit a child with my car - take that to another forum when you want to discuss road safety.

Dyr

lol Im not trying to pick a fight, nice line in righteous indignation though

Keep opinions like that to yourself
ehh..no?

or discuss them in another thread
that would be another no batman

nor do i actually care what you think of drivers who hit animals
i havent given an opinion on the matter

Im not asking for your approval
who said you were?


I'm just pointing out that if you can't avoid a dog (thats apparently so old it can't keep up with it's owner ) on a driveway then i can't see how you would have avoided a kid under the same circumstances. Was the dog significantly smaller than a small child? You were the one behind the wheel, so only you know if you're being honest with yourself or not.

Explain this to me though..if that was a child and not a pooch what would/could you have done differently to prevent an accident?

Yep, Unavoidably animals get hit out on the roads all the time, so do people. But there's plenty of deaths caused by careless drivers that could have been avoided.

Irish-Lass

Not being smart here but as you were on a public footpath with your vehicle you were actually in the wrong.....Regardless of whether the dog was walking too slow....define slow....slow for your liken does not make it slow. Old dogs like old people walk slowly. And before you have ago at me you were crossing a public footpath to get into your driveway regardless whether you have a dip on the path or not, it is still a public footpath and legally you were in the wrong. You do not own the pathway they are public property and any machinery, be it car or something else has to give way to people on that pathway.

If you were turning into the driveway surely you would have been going slow enough to take things into account and seen the dog in time.
But Bambi post is valid if you couldn't stop in time for the dog what happens if it had of been a child.....just something to think about next time you swing around into your drive way.

HOB-it

Irish-Lass wrote:

Not being smart here but as you were on a public footpath .

who mentioned footpath. the dog was on the road.

Ruby

I think ye are all going off track a little. The thread is "dogs on leads" nothing to do with somebody's driving capabilities..

HOB-it

the whole purpose of this thread was to ask if i had any recourse in getting a dog put on a lead. if you want to have a go at drivers that hit dogs with their cars then be my guest start up a new thread. I dont believe i should have to defend myself here nor were either of you there at the time. above is a brief summary of the incident and i dont intend to go into any more detail about this.


moderators - feel free to delete this thread as it has totally diverted away from its intended subject

HOB-it

Bambi wrote:

Explain this to me though..if that was a child and not a pooch what would/could you have done differently to prevent an accident?

.

and if it had been december instead of february - or it was raining instead of sunny - or if it wasnt a pooch but a cat - or we if we all lived in spain and drove on the right side of the road........... (do you see where im going with this)

HOB-it

thanks to everyone who had a valid input by the way

Irish-Lass

HOB-it wrote:

i hit this guys dog with my car as i was turning into a driveway.

To go into your driveway you have to cross the footpath and you never mentioned the dog being on the road

Dyr

HOB-it wrote:

and if it had been december instead of february - or it was raining instead of sunny - or if it wasnt a pooch but a cat - or we if we all lived in spain and drove on the right side of the road........... (do you see where im going with this)

no, tbh. Im just asking that if you replaced one variable in the scenario (dog with kid, which seems reasonable: both a small animal with mind of its own and no cop on) what you would have done differently to avoid hitting it?

As someone already mentioned dogs in public have to be kept under effective control, not neccesarily on leads, unless its a breed covered by the dangerous dogs act. You could always report this guy to the gardai and let them decide what to do.

HOB-it

Irish-Lass wrote:

To go into your driveway you have to cross the footpath and you never mentioned the dog being on the road

"a" driveway - not "my" driveway. entrance to the estate to be exact

luckat

Yes, the dog should be on a lead if it's in a public area.

Whether you should call down the dog warden on the inconsiderate owner is another question - you might well end up getting his two aged pooches killed as a result.

This is one of those situations where someone else's behaviour isn't something you can moderate.

HOB-it

Bambi wrote:

no, tbh. Im just asking that if you replaced one variable in the scenario (dog with kid....)

why? whats the point? what will it prove?

HOB-it

luckat wrote:

you might well end up getting his two aged pooches killed as a result.

.

I definetly dont want that to happen. The dogs are lovely black labs - old but harmless and very gentle.

Irish-Lass

then should have said the roadway not driveway there is a big difference

HOB-it

didnt think it was relevant whether i said "driveway" or a "roadway" because it actually had nothing to do what we were talking about.

Nala

To the original poster:

As far as I know, when not on his own premises, a dog must be kept on a lead by a person over 16 years of age at all times, in which case the dog's owner was in the wrong. I think it was very kind of you to pay half the vet's fees because they usually aren't cheap. At least you were responsible, the owner isn't no matter what he says. And if he truly loved his dogs, surely he'd have learned his lesson and would be keeping them on a lead.

Dyr

the link to the relevant piece of legislation has been posted folks, no mention of leads... just "effective control". If you're going to state to the contrary could you quote the relevant law(s) please? I can think of some exceptions (dangerous dogs act, dublin corpo park bye laws) but these dont apply.

HOB-it

Ive been to - irishdogs.ie and to ispca.ie and I cant find anything that mentions keeping the dog on a lead. the closest is this from the ISPCA

"a dog shall not be in any other place unless such owner ...... accompanies it and keeps it under effectual control."

Ok so he was with his dogs but i think the "effectual control" part is the subjective/gray area. He could argue that he had the dogs under control - but one could also argue how it is possible to exert effective control over a dog if its not on a lead.

HOB-it

Nala wrote:

To the original poster:

As far as I know, when not on his own premises, a dog must be kept on a lead by a person over 16 years of age at all times, in which case the dog's owner was in the wrong. I think it was very kind of you to pay half the vet's fees because they usually aren't cheap. At least you were responsible, the owner isn't no matter what he says. And if he truly loved his dogs, surely he'd have learned his lesson and would be keeping them on a lead.

Thanks Nala - but the sad thing is that he hasnt learnt his lesson and its the dogs who end up suffering.

HOB-it

From irishdogs.ie forum - although not quoting any specific legislation


http://www.irishdogs.ie/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=269&PN=11

CookieCat

You are supposed to be in control of your dog at all times. The laws here are ambiguous and open to interpretation as is the driving laws. As in being able to stop in time.
Even the best driver giving due care and attention has little chance when cat or dog or ferret runs straight out in front of you.
On the M50 over the weekend there was 2 carcass of dogs. I can imagine the carnage if the drivers had applied their brakes...Which is a obvious human reflex,. It may not have been 2 dead dogs on the road but a 10 car pile up.

You also had no legal obligation unless the guards were called and you were charged and convicted of driving without due care, to have paid any of the vets bills. You are obviously a morally caring person and so you did offer. Many guys would not have, many guys would not have even stopped.
This also must have been a horrible experience for you and I hope it has not left you too traumatized. As for the dog, as much as I feel sympathy for the dog too If the dog was kept on it's lead as it should have this would not have happened.It is again down to irresponsible ownership.
A FYI. A dog warden can pick up and take to the pound any dog found wandering, this includes a dogs who's owner is walking 20 yards in front...I.E An unattended dog.

HOB-it

Hi CookieCat

I too have seen dogs just peg it accross the road and cause near accidents. One comes to mind of a pretty big dog (Alsation i think it was) running accross the road with its owner walking behind WITH THE LEAD IN HIS HAND!!. He decided to let the animal off its lead for a run around ON A BUSY ROAD DURING LUNCH! i tell ya some people.

And the instinct to avoid hitting the animal is pretty strong. But if it had been a guy in a new BMW who hit the dog - i wonder how eager that driver would have been to put a bleeding animal in his car and take it to the vet. Some drivers would insist on the owner of the dog pay them for damage to the car.

anyways i found this on irishdogs.ie

Under the Control of Dogs Act, 1986, all local authorities in Ireland are responsible for the control of dogs

so maybe my option is to contact someone in the local council and ask them how I could proceed. Again - i dont want to get this guy into trouble but I do want him to get a wake up call.