.223 Refusal. What about .222?

Keelan

I wanted to ammand my .22 Hornet to a .223 and was refused.
If I went for a .222 instead, would it be licenced?
Thanks.

civdef

Did they give a reason?

Keelan

Yes the supt gave his reason in wrighting.
He wrote that i did not need one!!!
After me showing my shooting range membership ect and being that i already owned a .22 centerfire, this did not convince him at all.
I have written a letter to him since, but he is sticking to his guns, as he put it .

civdef

Are you a member of any shooting association? If so, get them on the case if possible.

jaycee

Where (roughly) do you live ..?
I.E.... nearest Town..

Keelan

Im a member of N.A.R.G.C. Iv contacted Des Crofton, but he is on holidays at present till begining of next month.
I wont say what town im in, for sacurity reasons, but im in north co. Roscommon, if that makes any difference?

Flattop 15

If he refused you for a 223 he will refuse you a 222 as well.No doubt claiming the old chestnut arguement of" military calibre, and the 222 will fire in a 223 chamberd weapon"[Like to see him try it :rolleyes: ]
Did he give a more specific reason why he thinks you dont need a 223?
What type of 223 rifle were you looking at getting?Is it a nasty semi auto assault rifle lookalike?Just thinking of your location near the border counties,maybe somthing to do with that?
Another thing,better maybe to give the calibre in metric IE 5.56 as the 223 is easily known,but somtimes the 5.56 isnt,if you know what I mean?

Keelan

Hi Flat top 15,
The Super did not give a good reason for refusal, just that i did not need one :rolleyes: .
The rifle in question was a CZ bolt action and i was going to use it for exactly the same thing as my Hornet, i.e, for foxes and target shooting, i have allways wanted a .223 bolt action, becuase of the cheapness of ammo and the veriety of ammo available for it, plus it has a longer range than the Hornet.
It was the very same rifle as the hornet, the only diference being the caliber, .223.
I would never dream of applying for a semi-auto assult rifle :eek: , as i dont need one of them and am not intrested at all.
Thanks for the replies so far.
Any more info?

Dvs

Hello Keelan,
if i understand you correctly, you want to get rid of Your Hornet and get a .223 Cz bolt action rifle ?

if this is the case then did you not say to the superintendent,
"Well Superintendent, i am selling my hornet rifle because i want to, and then i will not have a rifle and then I shall need a new rifle.
I am not a person disentitled under the firearms act,
i am a member of a gun club with permission to shoot over lands,I have a specific need for this firearm, that being the control of foxes on the lands i have permission to shoot over,for the owners of those lands. Sir"

If he says you dont need a .223 a hornet is good enough, explain that a .223 is a flatter shooting round and therfore safer !

Dvs.

Keelan

Thanks for that DVS.
I have told him all this, but to no avail.
He is still sticking to his guns and is very stuborn .
I have since ammended my cert to a .204, but find the ammo more expensive and it has not got as much chioce in ammo as the .223.
I will talk to Des Crofton when he gets back and see what he thinks.
Thanks.

civdef

Of course the .204 is a lot more powerful then the .223, which puts that super's knowledge in perspective.

Flattop 15

civdef wrote:

Of course the .204 is a lot more powerful then the .223, which puts that super's knowledge in perspective.

Ahhhh! he is a Garda Ballistics man!
"204 is a shmaller number then de 223.Defore tis a shmaller bullet and tis safer for dat shootin fellah to have an it wont go far because tis smaller!Shure everone knows de IRA only use dem 223 yokes!"
Or somthing to that somwhat unathordox approach to the exact science of weapons ballistics that applies only in Garda thinking

Maybe now a meeting with him in which you provide a calibre chart wth such things as muzzle velocity,actual calibre dimensions,and energy down range at 100,2000,and 500 meters might convince him to give you a pipsqueak 5.56
Or on the other hand it might bewilder the poor fellow compleatly

jaycee

For a good laugh ..

Show him a .220 Swift and a .22Lr (Both classified as a .220)
and then compare the ballistics of the Swift to the .223...

(It's the same number (220) so it must be the same thing )...NOT.! :rolleyes:

Keelan

Exactly ,
Where are they coming from .
It baffels me altogether .
The .204 i have is fussy with the 40 grain v.max and will only cycle the 32 grain v maxes.
This is the only ammo availble for this caliber, :rolleyes: and as you can see it is not much.
The .223 has hallow points, soft points, FMJ,(only 10 euro a box) ect.
I pay 25 euro for a box of 20 for the .204 and it only comes in one flavor, wheres the .223 has soft points and hallow points and are only 18 to 20 euro a box, full metal jacket for target use is only, are 10 euro a box :eek: .

Sparks

Exactly ,
Where are they coming from

Well, they're generally not interested in firearms, the way that you or I wouldn't be overly interested in (say) Morris Dancing, and they're assigned to the job without training or advice or much in the way of backup, and if anything goes wrong, it's their personal rear end for the bacon slicer. So some are not generally predisposed to be sympathetic to us!
(Doesn't mean that they're right, and there's a fair amount of evidence that there are some supers out there who aren't adhering to Gardai codes of practise, but you did ask what the motivation was!).

chem

Hi all, I found myself in more or less the same boat a year ago. I had a .22lr CZ and was looking for a .22Horent for fox. I spent weeks on the phone after being refused the licence as the feeling was that a .22 is a .22 no mather how much powder is be hind the projectile

After hounding the super and having a meeting or 5 :eek: i got the second rifle. I showed him the EMPTY shells of both 22lr and 22 horent and i think he understood my point abit more.

Point is that the DOJ has refused import licences for .223 cal rifles for years but have now granted them. so he might be just out of dat on the whole issue.

One problem i did have was that, since i was refused the second licence once it has led to every other application being delayed, because the super want to know why i was refused. Cant wait till i apply for my .50 berret and see what responce i get

Funny feeling there will be a marked squad car outside my house 4 afew weeks

jaycee

there will be a marked squad car outside my house 4 afew weeks

Now That's what I'd call secure storage

Keelan

I think if i showed my super an empty .223 case and a empty .22 hornet, i would be arrested for having ammo i was not suppose to have .
Im so fed up with the whole thing, that im seriousuly thinking of going back to the Hornet. as the 32 grain v.maxes i have for the .204 dont work too well on foxes and tend to blow up on impact :eek: . Great for bunnys at long range .
I shot a fox last febuary with it and it hit the shoulder and made a massive crater wound not reaching the vitals.
A second humane shot had to be followed up quick .
I never had that problem with the hornet. It was allways reliable.
I think this .204 was originally desighend for long range small varmint shooting in the states with only the odd fox taken with it.
If i had the .223 i would be using soft point or hallow point ammo for better penatration which are much more available for it than the .204.
So you guys, do you think i should go back to the hornet and stay low till prehaps things change for the better, or am i being a bit green?
Thanks.

Flattop 15

Keelan wrote:

I think if i showed my super an empty .223 case and a empty .22 hornet, i would be arrested for having ammo i was not suppose to have .

Not if it is drilled thru on both sides of the case,It's now totally destroyed as an ammo componet.Better still buy one in an army surplus shop and keep the recipt.
Thinking about your problem,why not go UP in calibre to 243?That is a calibre you can customise in loads by buying or reloading alot more easier than the 223.Plus it has more acceptability in garda heads than 223.
Might be worth a try.

Keelan

Not really,
A bit too much for fox for me really and expensive in ammo.
Thanks for the suggestion though .
No, it really does look like i will head back to the old tryd and trusted .22 Hornet.

macnas

Sparks wrote:

.......for the bacon slicer.