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Home game hand and rules question

  • 13-07-2005 3:43am
    #1
    Lplate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭


    Rules first: Two people in hand at flop. Player one has a think and asks p2 how much he has left. P2 tells him then says "If you bet I call". Is this a binding verbal declaration?

    Final table just started with 9 players. I'm cl with approx 20k. 2cl has approx 14.5k. This makes up half the chips on table. 2cl flat calls (800) utg. I'm in co with 99 and raise to 3200. Folded to 2cl who flat calls. Flop of 456. He bets out 3k. I ask him how much he has left, he says about 8.5k but I don't get any solid read. I call and turn is 8. He goes all in. Call or fold?

    Info on opponent - decent player - tightish aggressive - good record in big hands against me


Comments

  • #2
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    The only binding anything is when someone pushes their chips over the line or, when it is their turn to act, informs the dealer of what they are going to do ie: "I'm all in".
    Saying something like "If you bet I'll call" is not binding.

    In the second question, I don't know but I know I would have reraised him on the flop. If he has a straight already then, ok... but by reraising you are declaring a made hand, probably an overpair. You're flat call may have led him to think you had AK or big cards and are hoping to hit, so when a card that is unlikely to help you and may be a scare card falls on 4th street, he could be using that to scare you off while he actually holds third or second pair should you call with your (supposed) AK. You call or not based on your knowledge of this player and if he'd do this...

    DeV.


  • #3
    Lafortezza
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭Lafortezza


    What kind of hand is he calling UTG with?
    When you raise from the CO 4xBB, what kind of hands does he call *that* with?
    AK/AQs? JJ-66?

    Depending what you think he might have you should make your play on the flop. Raise him and he either folds/calls or if he goes all-in you can make your decision then. Flat calling his bet on the flop leaves you a bit clueless on the turn.


  • #4
    BigDragon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭BigDragon


    Smells like a A7/A8 'but they are sooooted' UTG donkey call to me.


  • #5
    Lplate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭Lplate


    Looking back afterwards, I realised it was rank bad of me not to reraise all in on flop. As you guys said what was he betting with? When he made the bet, the first thought I had ("INSTINCT") was that he assumed AK/AQ and the flop didn't help me, so was stealing the pot. 3k was a weakish bet there given the pot size and by reraising I was putting the decision on him. This player imo, would have reraised all in preflop if he had AA-JJ, so the only real worry I had was TT or a set. He wouldn't have called with A8/A7. In the end, I went with my instinct and called. He turned over AK, no help on river and happy days. My bad play on flop got the rest of his chips and set me up for the rest of the tourney. Ended up in 2nd after 2 particularly ugly beats by eventual winner. 1 a 2 outer on river, the other runner/runner.


  • #6
    ZZR1100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ZZR1100


    DeVore wrote:
    The only binding anything is when someone pushes their chips over the line or, when it is their turn to act, informs the dealer of what they are going to do ie: "I'm all in".
    Saying something like "If you bet I'll call" is not binding.

    DeV.

    If you Call or raise out of turn. is it not binding?
    Admittedly the If you bet I call is a grey area.
    (An action or Verbal declaration out of turn may be ruled binding
    Roberts rules)


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  • #7
    NickyOD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,124 ✭✭✭NickyOD


    Lplate wrote:
    Rules first: Two people in hand at flop. Player one has a think and asks p2 how much he has left. P2 tells him then says "If you bet I call". Is this a binding verbal declaration?

    Final table just started with 9 players. I'm cl with approx 20k. 2cl has approx 14.5k. This makes up half the chips on table. 2cl flat calls (800) utg. I'm in co with 99 and raise to 3200. Folded to 2cl who flat calls. Flop of 456. He bets out 3k. I ask him how much he has left, he says about 8.5k but I don't get any solid read. I call and turn is 8. He goes all in. Call or fold?

    Info on opponent - decent player - tightish aggressive - good record in big hands against me

    How can you ask for a better flop than this with 99 and why on earth would you flat call? You've got no justification in raising preflop if you're not going to raise here. Its push or fold time. You either believe you are ahead now with the info you have or you don't. Flat calling is not an option. Going by your description he may have TT but I would probably beat him into the pot with my chips here.Wait what happened to the betting on the turn and river? You still had chips left?


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