I've just realised my greatest fear

LegacyUser

I just realised this today, while sitting on the bus. It hit me real hard. I can feel my brain resisting while I even try to think about it. I feel I need to record my thoughts here to prevent me from dismissing this.

My greatest fear is of ATTRACTING women, especially those WHO I AM ATTRACTED TO.

I guess it's a fear of rejection. But the above statement hits the nail on the head for me.

Let me tell you how this dawned on me. I've reached a kind of cross road in my life (at 20) where I feel the need to evaluate myself and make tough decisions. Self-confidence is a factor and one of the things I've been working on is conveying confidence through posture and body language - something I realise that women tend to find attractive. Well... I was sitting on the bus sharing a seat and unexpectedly got up, turned and moved to another. I noticed an attractive woman was checking me out and didn't know what to do with herself once I caught her (we all know what its like when you're caught watching someone, so that was cool). Instead of feeling flattered and handling the situation (by simply smiling, saying "hi", or whatever), I felt FEAR. I IGNORED her and sat behind her. She repositioned herself, her hair, etc as you would expect. The feeling of FEAR only went away when she stopped acting like this and eventually got off the bus (BTW I noticed she walked like someone watching her every step - self consciously). If she turned around and tried talking to me I think the fear would have taken over. So, I think she felt an attraction for me, but whether she did or not doesn't matter. The issue is MY FEAR. I've felt it before. I recognise it. I sat down and thought "WTF was that? Why did I feel like that?". Then it hit me.

I've known this subconsciously for so long but NEVER (or rarely) thought about it. It's amazing, I'm now realising what effect this fear has had on my life. How much I've tip-toed around it and not faced it head on. How deep it has manifested itself in my personality. I've done things to stop/prevent women being attracted to me (to avoid the fear). When they are, something clicks inside and I get that fight or flight syndrome. I've a steady head on my shoulders so I haven't done anything drastic and I have not fought any women that were attracted to me! But done enough to turn them away. Obviously this has resulted in me being "relatively" inexperienced with women (although there A LOT of inexperienced guys out there).

I consider myself an attractive LOOKING guy on a good day. I've been told so by men and women of all ages. Woman are usually initially attracted to me until I get afraid and turn them away. As for women who I am NOT attracted to, I feel OK. It doesn't bother me that they like me (and I've learned that acting like this makes a girl like a guy more, but that still doesn't bother me!?). So what is the issue here? Surely there's something I feel they won't be attracted to if they got to know me better... but I have made friends with some of the attractive women that I have (in a way) rejected (but the rejection has become almost mutual) and they grow to like the friendly "mr.nice guy" side of me - the one I was brought up and socially conditioned to be. But women aren't attracted to "nice guys" and I'm aware of that. I've avoided some women that I'm attracted to, to prevent us becoming friends untill I sort this out - so I HAVE been aware of this!? Am I afraid of commitment? Am I that afraid of commitment? I don't ... think so. It must be got to do with attraction. And women can be attracted to guys without the guy opening up - that is attractive to me! So am I afraid of opening up?... yes, but I believe that anyone (especially a woman) would be understanding about almost anything. And I don't exactly have any dark secrets. SO WHAT IS IT? I've been in dangerous and/or high pressure situations before without this intense fear. Why do I fear this?

I have to think why I relate this to fear... I feel that I don't know what to do when a woman finds me attractive. When her eyes light up, her chest sticks out and she moves her body close to mine. I must be afraid I'll make a mistake or that I don't deserve it. And she'll reject me. So I reject them first SO EARLY ON. Maybe THAT'S it. Ironically, I enjoy dancing close to women in night clubs - both women I know and strangers who I find attractive. But no matter how hot it gets, I leave it on the dance floor. Weird.

I know at least, that fear is IRATIONAL. We automatically become afraid of things that shouldn't always be feared. So my fear is irrational. It is wrong. But I still have to overcome it.

Wow that helped. And it took a good while to type that. I realise I should discuss this with friends and family to commit to overcoming it or failing that, at least get some sound advice. I'm gonna think about it some more. If you've read this far get a life ;). But thanks for reading through my self-indulgent post. I hope you enjoyed this insight to my mind. If you've faced a big fear or something similar and have sound advice, I would appreciate your input.

Cheers

DawnMc

well done man, rock on

Webmonkey

aw man thanks to you i've just discovered that its my fear as well and its being hanging over me a lot these days. I'm in pretty much same position as you.
Hope people have advice.

Victor

Rejection is one of our greatest fears. We will do anythign to avoid rejection, even reject people's initial advances.

Beruthiel

there is no real answer to this other than gaining some confidence.
somewhere along the way I realised that, ok this is scarey for me, but it's scarey for everyone else too, once you realise that, it's a real leveller!
We are all in the same boat, and did you ever think that perhaps these girls felt the same?? - after all, didn't you reject them?!

BizzyC

Could the fact that your inexperienced be the cause of the fear?

Maybe you're afraid they'll look down on you because of it???
It seems to me to be a fear of rejection.
As a guy who's been rejected manys a time , just go for it.
It's not a big deal.
You give it a shot, they say no, you say fair enough can't blame a guy for trying end of story.

As long as you handle the rejection well, ie dont cry, there's no embarassment attached.
Go to your local club, you'll see guys getting rejected left right and centre.

Kell

I am undecided as to whether to recommend to the OP that he stick his head in a bucket of water and cop on or to offer some rational advice.

OP- you know the answer to your own questions ie the "why am I this or that", you just need to mull them over. Fear of rejection comes from one of two things-

A) You have had a massive rejection of some description in the past. Not necessarily from a woman but maybe from a parent or friend or whatever. In thinking about it, I suggest that you think far back to your early early primary school days to find the answer.

Low self esteem- the "something this good cant happen to me because it will 1) f*ck up of its own accord 2) they will see me as I really am and they will f*ck off or 3) I will f*ck it up because I dont deserve it". Subconscious, psychological sabotage its called.

Talking to friends or parents may be helpful, but be aware that they may indeed have caused you some upset that has dented your subconscious poor image of yourself. You will come to the answers in time, but I always recommend the services of a good therapist to accelerate the process. It is obviously a stumbling block for you but at least you have committed yourself to grasping the bull by the horns and getting on with it.

Good luck.

K-

GrumPy

As for women who I am NOT attracted to, I feel OK. It doesn't bother me that they like me

This is weird, i feel this too sometimes, im in same boat as you, but i feel only way to get out of this FEAR is to try not to IGNORE someone who you think is looking at you, look back at them, and gradually it will become more natural, and your confidence will build, i know mine has a little.

Peteee

Kell wrote:

A) You have had a massive rejection of some description in the past. Not necessarily from a woman but maybe from a parent or friend or whatever. In thinking about it, I suggest that you think far back to your early early primary school days to find the answer.

Low self esteem- the "something this good cant happen to me because it will 1) f*ck up of its own accord 2) they will see me as I really am and they will f*ck off or 3) I will f*ck it up because I dont deserve it". Subconscious, psychological sabotage its called.

Crap You might have hit a hammer on my proverbial noggin there.

Thanks Least I know what part of my problem is

Kell

Peteee wrote:

Crap You might have hit a hammer on my proverbial noggin there.

:rolleyes: Sorry. Hammers would be the last thing I would normally hit someone over the head with. Fatality rate is quite hi I believe.

Continue with the soul searching. You'll find it all makes sense. Knowledge of the problem is the first dose of the cure.

K-

nobodythere

If I didn't know any better I'd say that I posted this thread

LegacyUser

Kell, thanks! If you feel I need a verbal man-slap then I won't complain! I might even appreciate it.

I've admitted to myself that I've let one experience have a big impact on me and it has attributed to the fear. Like hundreds and thousands of other men/boys, I poured my young testosterone fuelled heart out to one particular girl and got a different reaction to the one I expected. She was flattered but she had a boyfriend that didn't know about! And I was blind to it. I took it purely as a rejection. She told everybody and even though I wasn't really ridiculed, I felt humiliated. Absolutely. For months after I would feel sick when I saw her. At the time I looked to her for reasons why I felt so bad. But I never looked at myself and thought I shouldn't be feeling this. Thinking it over now makes it sounds so silly but I guess its a good thing. It was years ago but I obviously haven't addressed it properly. I should appreciate the learning experience - reframe the memory positively.

Reframing is a neuro-linguistic programming technique to fix bad memories. I'm gonna try it out on this:
I am PROUD and IMPRESSED with myself for having the BALLS to tell her I liked her.
Others were IMPRESSED too. They told me!
She had a TOUGH choice and took the EASY OPTION
When I saw her, I thought of the GOOD things that could have happened. And CAN happen.

...This sh*t works! I'll spend more time on it.

As for the subconscious, psychological sabotage, I'm aware of that. I've rewritten and corrected this post until it reflected a positive state of mind. I'm making an effort to say nice things to myself, because thoughts are like self fulfilling prophecies. They really are.

Beruthiel, thanks for that. I haven't really considered that it's scary for them too. From now on, I'll keep telling myself that. Also, I didn't consciously reject them. I didn't want to. When I think about it, I rejected a part of MYSELF. Wow. I sometimes told myself that I just had high standards - to try and rationalise it. But the fact is the rational part of our brain is controlled by our emotions. When I sort out the emotions I am able to think straight

BizzyC, I'd say inexperience is a factor. I have to admit that. But that alone would not hold me back. The excitement of meeting someone is enough to overcome that. I've gotten your kind of advice before. It's general advice that successful guys give to their mates. I've read/heard about millions of guys with this rejection fear problem before without it even ringing a bell. I guess the hardest part is admitting it. Thanks though.

Dam I'm such a cliché!

Victor you're right. DawnMc thanks. Irish GrumPy, Peteee, grasshopa and Webmonkey, thanks for sharing.

I'm not out of the woods yet but I WILL get this sorted out.

P.S I was ready to post this and walk away so many times but reworking it to something positive has really helped.

deimos

Since we are all "coming out" I might as well also.

I am/was in the same boat as yourself.

As of late the problem has not bothered me to the same degree as which it once would had. I find since it stopped bothering me so much, it has began to fade away a little (I said a little)...


Not to hog in on the post with my own problem but to share what I think and to hopefully give support I shall explain:
The repeated act of finding my way out of and preventing such "scarey" situations has become like second nature. After some time I began not to feel as uncomfortable in these situations because I knew I could get out of them quite easily with a few clever tools and tricks (some of which are embarrassing and never mind daft to admit J).

A few months ago I began to face the possibility that I would not end up in a relationship in my life because of me constantly doing this. Strangely enough though I found that it did not really bother me. I have many other things in life I am passionate about, and the thought of being alone and doing these things for the rest of my life seems worthwhile (more than enough to live for).

Now you ask what is this off topic gob****e ****ing on about?

Since all of this I still cannot soberly chat up a woman to this day (old habits echo on), yet though with a few drinks in me I gain that little bit of extra confidence and I am willing to be a little more "risky".

The point I am basically trying to get to is that the thought of not finding somebody a few years ago scared me for some reason and that brought about the fear of screwing up which made me uncomfortable in such situations (other factors no doubt contributed but this was the major one I think).

Lately since I have cared less about it I find it a little easier (more a “so what” attitude creeping in when I get a little drunk), yet though I still have the habit of deterring interested girls, not because of the fear of screwing up but for due to an embarrassment of not knowing what to say next, do next (inexperience), etc, etc… which for me can be overcome by a little confidence and with the help of alcohol J.


I do not know whether you can relate to aspects of that or whether you think I am a desperate fool, but I think now after writing that I feel a little clearer inside and hopefully I have given somebody else an insight into a problem which may help theirs to some degree…

One thing I do wonder though, and its more like a puzzle in the back of the paper, is how I ended up in this situation and others around did not. What happened in their lives that shaped them to be “comfortable” in these situations?
Smeh, it could be another Fermat’s last theorem…

ps, do not drink to bring about a state of mental cluteredness which instigates confidence, banging your head off the wall could have an equal effect

nobodythere

My story is, I fear rejection and if I do actually get rejected I go into overdrive about every little thing that's wrong with me and try to outdo everyone else in every way... Eventually I become exhausted from pushing myself at running/gym and have a headache from trying to be so considerate and nice...

Victor

grasshopa wrote:

My story is, I fear rejection and if I do actually get rejected I go into overdrive about every little thing that's wrong with me and try to outdo everyone else in every way... Eventually I become exhausted from pushing myself at running/gym and have a headache from trying to be so considerate and nice...

Welcome to the club.

LegacyUser

this is unbelievable.
Its my problem exactly. I ignore girls that probably like me. Why do i do this? I just dont know. It drives me mad. Just a few days ago a girl i had dreamed about snce i was 12 came up to me in a club, grabbed me and said hi. What did i do? Jumped back said hi, and ran...
Why ????
Afterwards i was thinking. next time she sees me i'll definitely score or do it different. Trouble is next time will be the exact same if there even is a next time...
Im such a d!ckhead. Im so scared its just not right. I've tackled every other fear in my life but this is just too hard. I cant even breathe sometimes when i think about it

nobodythere

Ran as in actually ran? I think that once you conquer this once you'll never have to conquer it again (unless you end up without a gf for a very long time). Maybe a loophole to it is telling her that you're afraid of girls you like... Also serves as a pickup line

Squirrel

I have that, but it's not so much a fear of rejection, more a fear of making an ass of myself and not even getting the chance to be rejected. I got over it by being myself and worrying about rejection at a later stage (which unfortunately does happen but at least I'm already friends or talking to the girl)

Laguna

God, i'm glad modesty is still well and truly alive in this day and age. Do people really sit themselves down and go "God damn, I CONSIDER myself to be an attractive man" I mean COME ON, I know girls like to jude themselves physically and make comparisons with other girls but is this what the 21st century man is all about? basically becoming woman 1.5? look original poster, i'm glad that you're so dashingly handsome and all, it must be a real predicament you find yourself in when attractive young women flirt/check you out all the time. Jesus, I know for sure *I* couldn't handle it

Altheus

So wait....

You think your good-looking because the friendly (non-consequential) females in your life say so.

Your fear is that some consequential female may think different, so your avoid this and set out to prevent any possibilities?

Sounds to me like your REAL problem is the fact that you've got a ego that you won't let anyone pop. You've got a misconception of yourself as being good-looking, based not on your own knowledge but on glass foundations.

Accept the fact that

"You are not special. Your are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else"

C'mon this is popular stuff...

Then read this little beauty...

"I have come curiously close to the end, down beneath my self-indulgent pitiful hole. Defeated, I concede and move closer. I may find comfort here.
I may find peace within the emptiness. How pitiful. And it's calling me.

And in my darkest moment, fetal and weeping. The moon tells me a secret. My confidant. As full and bright as I am, this light is not my own and
A million light reflections pass over me.

It's source is bright and endless. She resuscitates the hopeless. Without her we are lifeless satellites dreaming dreams. And as I pull my head out I am without one doubt.

Don't want to be down here soothing my narcissism. I must crucify the ego before it's far too late. I pray the light lifts me out before I pine away."

There is untold advice within those lines.

Hagar

"You have nothing to fear but fear itself" Kwai Chang Kane

afraid wrote:

Dam I'm such a cliché!

BTW that's not how you spell Culchie

nobodythere

Tool eh? Altheus, are you referring to the PO or to 'who_am_i'?

LegacyUser

Laguna wrote:

God, i'm glad modesty is still well and truly alive in this day and age. Do people really sit themselves down and go "God damn, I CONSIDER myself to be an attractive man" I mean COME ON, I know girls like to jude themselves physically and make comparisons with other girls but is this what the 21st century man is all about? basically becoming woman 1.5? look original poster, i'm glad that you're so dashingly handsome and all, it must be a real predicament you find yourself in when attractive young women flirt/check you out all the time. Jesus, I know for sure *I* couldn't handle it

Well firstly, something I forgot to mention - I had acne for years. It definatly affected my confidence. It would clear up occasionaly and I'd all of a sudden get "noticed" a lot more, only for the acne to come back. Maybe that's why I'd feel pressure when girls do act attracted to me. The acne has been steadily clearing up for a while now (and especially with the sunshine) and I'm getting complemented more and more by friends, aqaintances and strangers. When you pass a good looking girl on the street and she glances at you without interest, you're probably not good looking. When they start looking back all of a sudden, maybe smiling or acting nervous or self concious, well, you notice these things. So THAT's why I consider myself attractive LOOKING.

Secondly, good looks mean sh*t. If you don't have a personality to go with it your only going to attract a certain type of woman. Short, fat, bald guys with magnate personalities can have models if they want. My fear issue is about personality. But as my confidence grows my personality reflects that. I haven't always lacked confidence and I'm remembering what its like to feel confident.

Finally, in this day and age WTF do you expect? We're BOMBARDED with commercial sh*t everywhere that tells us that looks are everything. We're only human, we can't help picking up on it no matter how much we try to ignore it. Everyone is concerned about how they look whether they address it or not. I'm not trying to bash you because I respect your opinion and agree somewhat. But from your post I imagine someone who doesn't consider themselves "dashingly handsome and all" and isn't exactly pleased about it. But as I said above, for men, good looks mean sh*t. Women can go far when they look great, men not so much.

Altheus, Tool are good in small doses - for when I'm really pissed off about something. But I'm not going to listen to the advice of an artist. Artists by nature are just... different and unreliable. If I was an artist, I wouldn't listen to anyone.

Anyway, thanks for the responses. Sorry if my "ego" has offended anyone. It's been "popped" before and I'm not about to let it get popped again soon.

Altheus

Whoa there little grasshopper, no need to jump on the defensive.

"When they start looking back all of a sudden, maybe smiling or acting nervous or self concious, well, you notice these things."

I don't know if a girl does that that it's a response to my good looks, or my flirtatious eyes, or my charming personality.

Bear in mind YOU are looking at her. That's probably why she's nervous and shuffling uneasily. She may be smiling at the fact you look so uneasy with the fact she's looking back.

Oh, and by the way, you don't pick up women by casting glances.

If you judge how you look on how others perceive you, you're probably letting your friends cloud any true judgment, as they'll always tell you what you'd like to hear.

If you judge how you look on how you perceive others to perceive you, then it's the wrong judgment, as you're probably far to self-concious to be able to get close to the reality.

If you judge yourself based on how you perceive yourself, you're probably gonna be way off the mark, either lower or higher, based on how good you feel.

The fact is, there is a standard of beautiful that let's face it, most laypeople are no where near. You're right it's none important. Strange that it's the root of your problem, or at least you shield against perhaps a weak character.

However to say the good looks don't get you far is also a misconception. They do. Be you man or woman, it can guarantee you a lot of success with the tiniest amounts of actual personality.

Likewise, being amazingly charming does not guarantee anything, I think the factors you're missingare money, power, influence, sexuality, and strength.

As for Tool, don't believe for a second they haven't plagerised a thousand other authors to divine a message. Their message just happens to suit a 20 year old depressed, seemingly self loathing, ex-acne sufferer with confidence issues. In fact, you're target demographic.

My advice, is take advice, don't dismiss it.

Venting is one thing, but actually being able to apply wisdom to one's life takes a lot more.

My honest opinion is that you'll find someone without too much effort, who shares your attitude and all. In fact I think you'll find almost every single male in the 18 - 22 category who has confidence issues thinks the exact same thing as you.

In this day and age, with all the commercial bombardments you have, you should realise just how thin a veil clothing, hairstyles and tastes of music are. Most real people like people.

Again, I'll reiterate the lines that seem to say so much about your predicament:

I may find comfort here.
I may find peace within the emptiness.
How pitiful. And it's calling me.

Oh and stay away from Tony Robbins, and the Science of Seduction self help programs.

The Clown Man

Laguna wrote:

God, i'm glad modesty is still well and truly alive in this day and age. Do people really sit themselves down and go "God damn, I CONSIDER myself to be an attractive man" I mean COME ON, I know girls like to jude themselves physically and make comparisons with other girls but is this what the 21st century man is all about? basically becoming woman 1.5? look original poster, i'm glad that you're so dashingly handsome and all, it must be a real predicament you find yourself in when attractive young women flirt/check you out all the time. Jesus, I know for sure *I* couldn't handle it

Pure tripe. Shush.

If the guy is attractive he almost certainly knows it. He's not being a fool about it, it is a fact of life. There is no harm in knowing your place in any situation especially the sex game. He gets attention from females. Get over it.

LegacyUser

Altheus, I'm not really on the defensive. I thought the fact I coinsidered myself good looking offended some people. I'm trying to explain myself more clearly but I don't think it's getting through, at least not to you. I'll try one last time.

Whether I have natural good looks or not is not a problem. You can call me ugly and it won't have any profound emotional impact on me. I think how someone presents themself ("use what you've got") is far more important. Clothing, hairstyles etc. are only a thin veil if you rely on them to define you. I would hate myself if I was that shallow (I don't!). But presenting yourself well is a good start. And just because you do, doesn't mean you're shallow.

"However to say the good looks don't get you far is also a misconception. They do. Be you man or woman, it can guarantee you a lot of success with the tiniest amounts of actual personality.

Likewise, being amazingly charming does not guarantee anything, I think the factors you're missingare money, power, influence, sexuality, and strength."

I agree with you that really great looking people can go far, it certainly helps. But I think you're missing my point. I look at the people who have the most money, power and influence from their looks alone - female models. When you take the best looking man in the world, say Brad Pitt, he would not be nearly as sucessfull without acting talent and the personality that drove him to refine it. Women go further with looks alone, not because they're shallow but because they can. Personality is the winner for men whether your after money, power, influence, sexuality, whatever (look at James Brown (aged 78), Justin Hawkins, all the rich and ugly CEOs in the world (Bill Gates), Ron Jeremy,...).

"Oh and stay away from Tony Robbins, and the Science of Seduction self help programs."

I have actually looked at that and I agree with you there. Although some self help material can be beneficial. I consider most advice that comes my way and I appretiate it. I probably still haven't explained myself clearly enough for some people as my examples can be picked apart. But I feel like I've been sidetracked here so I don't want to spend more time on this.

nobodythere

I wasn't getting defensive, I love tool, and I was genuinely asking who you were referring to.

Victor

grasshopa wrote:

I love tool

:eek:

shakaman

In my teens I had serious acne too, tried everything to combat it...creams, medicine etc. with no joy. Eventually it subsided and now in my nid 20's thankfully I have no marks from it (largely down to the fact I didn't scratch them) But I found it seriously hampered my confidence, add that to the fact I went to a boys school and hadn't much contact with girls I was a disaster when it came to chattin them up.

But then university came along, and what an eye opener. No point in going too much detail but from experience, now, every time I go to chat up a girl who I've made repeated eye contact with etc I remind myself of a couple of things....1. it's not only me catching her eye it's vice versa - she interested 2. if I go over there and I find we don't get on what have I lost..nothing, I didn't know her before, I tried my best and it didn;t work out. Notch it to experience 3. Women want it as much as men.

Dunno bout chattin a girl up in a bus but try this routine in a nightclub, passed it off to a friend of mine in a similar situation to yourself and it worked wonders

Pass off the usual pleasantries, I'm boy you girl, what do you do, where are you from, havin a good night/are ya here with mates. By then you'll have broken the ice, and ask her has she a fella? If no - 'why the hell not! you're good looking and seems like a really nice girl!', if yes - 'then why the hell has he let you out on your own!'. When you find conversation drying up, turn around to her and it's been great meetin you, you seem really nice and love to take you out sometime somewhere nicer than this where we can have a proper chat? Ask for her number....if she says no, you've been a perfect gentleman and if she says yes...whoa boy you got yourself a date! This conversation can be used at any age in any situation.

Hope this helps and best of luck!!!

Selik

shakaman wrote:

Dunno bout chattin a girl up in a bus but try this routine in a nightclub, passed it off to a friend of mine in a similar situation to yourself and it worked wonders

Pass off the usual pleasantries, I'm boy you girl, what do you do, where are you from, havin a good night/are ya here with mates. By then you'll have broken the ice, and ask her has she a fella? If no - 'why the hell not! you're good looking and seems like a really nice girl!', if yes - 'then why the hell has he let you out on your own!'. When you find conversation drying up, turn around to her and it's been great meetin you, you seem really nice and love to take you out sometime somewhere nicer than this where we can have a proper chat? Ask for her number....if she says no, you've been a perfect gentleman and if she says yes...whoa boy you got yourself a date! This conversation can be used at any age in any situation.

Hope this helps and best of luck!!!

It might not be original but if it works it works!