Advise/facts needed as company are trying to shaft me

AdrianII

Hi Guys,

I have a quick question/ enquiry that i hope someone can answer for me.
I am working in dublin with a big company, basically i got fed up with the way they treated there staff etc etc. So i found my self a new job.

The thing i am giving two weeks notice to my old job. They are stating that i need to give four weeks notice, or else i will not receive any holiday money owed to me , and they say that they are not giving me a reference.

Initially when i started i was on probation for 6 months, ( iv been here now over 8 months) when the probation period was over, we were meant to get a meeting to say we are permanent or still on probation.

I never got this meeting, so i presumed i was on probation.

Any body know,
1)what rights i have
2)was i still on probation
3) am i entitled to a ref
4) am i entitled to my holiday pay

Any help is grateful

cheers

eth0_

Legally I think you only have to give them 1-2 weeks notice as you haven't been there over a year.

Check the facts out on http://oasis.gov.ie

Keyzer

You are legally obliged to give one weeks notice....

More than 13 weeks but less than 2 years:
1 week [8-hour p.w. qualification period]

2 years to 5 years:
2 weeks

5 years to 10 years:
4 weeks

10 years to 15 years:
6 weeks

15 years or more:
8 weeks

http://www.eurofound.eu.int/emire/IRELAND/MINIMUMNOTICEANDTERMSOFEMPLOYMENTACT1973-IR.html

Google the others yourself...

Beruthiel

AdrianII wrote:

4) am i entitled to my holiday pay

for each month worked, you are entitled to 1.75 days
8 months = 14 days holiday pay

Borzoi

Keyzer wrote:

http://www.eurofound.eu.int/emire/IRELAND/MINIMUMNOTICEANDTERMSOFEMPLOYMENTACT1973-IR.html

Those details are for what employers must give employees. It is not reciprocal.

Employees only have to give one weeks notice - unless they have signed a contract that specifies a longer period.

It is usually a matter of good faith that an employee might give more, typically one month, but without the contract it's not enforceable, so the employer cannot hold on to pay, holiday money etc.

AARRRGH

Tut tut tut.

He works for an big company. He would have signed a contract. Obviously this contract states four weeks notice.

They win, you lose.

Sorry.

jaggeh

from oasis

Giving notice when changing your job
Rules
Where to apply
Information
If you are changing your job in Ireland, you are required by law to give your present employer notice of your decision to leave. The actual length of the notice you are required to give will depend on your contract of employment and on the minimum notice that you are required to give by law. The principal legislation governing this area employment law in Ireland is the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act, 1973. (You can read more about minimum periods of notice from employers here.)

Rules
Contract of employment
A contract of employment may be agreed by word of mouth or may be set out in writing. Requirements as to notice are one of a number of items in a contract of employment that should, by law, be in written form. You should therefore check your contract of employment for any provisions as to the notice you are required to give and follow those provisions. Remember that it is always open to agree a different arrangement to that contained in your contract with your employer.

Statutory minimum notice
If you do not have a provision in your contract of employment dealing with notice, the statutory minimum notice of one week will apply and this is the notice that you should give your employer of your intention to leave. The statutory minimum notice of one week, is set down in Section 6 of the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act, 1973.

Situations where notice is not required
If an employee has been working for an employer for less than 13 weeks or in situations where the employee is guilty of gross misconduct, then the employer is not bound to give the employee the minimum notice of one week.

Waiving your right to notice
Employment legislation in Ireland also sets down that if an employer and an employee agree, the employee can waive their right to notice. In addition, where the employer and employee agree, the employer can pay the employee in lieu of notice. If you accept payment in lieu of notice, then the date of termination of your employment is the date on which notice (if it had been given) would have expired. These rights are set down in Section 7 of the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act, 1973.

The legislation does not address the use of holidays (annual leave) due in lieu of notice. This is a matter for agreement between employer and employee. However any employee leaving a job is entitled to payment for any outstanding annual leave.

Changing your mind
Once given, you cannot withdraw your notice to terminate your employment, unless you can reach an agreement with your employer to do so.

The statutory minimum notice requirement by an employee is contained in the the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Acts, 1973 to 2001.

Using holidays due in lieu of notice

Where to apply
Further information on notice can be obtained from:

Employment Rights Information Unit,
The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment,
Davitt House,
65a Adelaide Road,
Dublin 2.
Lo-call: 1890 201 615
Tel: (01) 631 3131 (Mon-Fri 9.30 am - 5.00 pm - including lunchtime)
E-mail: erinfo@entemp.ie

the bold part is the bit your looking for

goingmental

tbh the same thing happened to me,, except i had to give 2 months- nightmare,,
i needed to leave before it was up but was told that i couldnt as my "past 6 months probabation" was up,
I also had not signed anything/or had been told i was permanent etc but apparently on the contract it states that after 6 months you are permanent and had to give 2 months blah blah,
i ended up staying there for the2 months as i figured it was a waste of my time working there ift they werent willing to give me a reference etc, and to be sure that i got all monies owed to me as i knew it would be difficult to receive them once gone.

see how flexible your new employer is, its only 2 extra weeks,, or even offer to work 3?
try and come to some arrangement with them without ruffling too many feathers,,

seamus

You are obliged to give a month's notice. You are entitled to be paid for your holidays.

If you give two weeks' notice and you have two weeks' holidays (or less), it's win-win. If you have more than two weeks' holidays, you can call their bluff, but unless you are willing to bring it to court (where you will have to pay them for the two weeks you were absent) you might want to stay the month.

You are not obliged to a reference.

AARRRGH

And remember, in situations like this, it has little to do with the company being a wanker or trying to save money on the holiday pay issue.

Replacing staff is difficult.

You want to leave them in a difficult situation.

They are trying to talk you into doing what you are supposed to do.

They are not being assholes.

They just want you to stay so they have time to replace you.

secret_squirrel

AdrianII wrote:

Hi Guys,

I have a quick question/ enquiry that i hope someone can answer for me.
I am working in dublin with a big company, basically i got fed up with the way they treated there staff etc etc. So i found my self a new job.

The thing i am giving two weeks notice to my old job. They are stating that i need to give four weeks notice, or else i will not receive any holiday money owed to me , and they say that they are not giving me a reference.

Initially when i started i was on probation for 6 months, ( iv been here now over 8 months) when the probation period was over, we were meant to get a meeting to say we are permanent or still on probation.

I never got this meeting, so i presumed i was on probation.

Any body know,
1)what rights i have
2)was i still on probation
3) am i entitled to a ref
4) am i entitled to my holiday pay

Any help is grateful

cheers

HAve you asked your new company if you can delay your start date by 2 weeks? Then everyone is happy?

nesf

I assume that since you found a new job, they know you are working atm.

Thus, if they said they are hiring you, they have to accept you will need to work off your notice. This is assuming you told them that you had yet to hand in said notice.

If you signed a contract. Well. You should have read it before signing it tbh. Most of them say 1 months notice, although it's not a good idea to just assume it.

A month's notice is standard for most jobs.

I don't see the problem. They aren't shafting you. They are asking you to work out a months notice (reasonable imho). It really isn't worth the hassle of making a fuss over and tbh you do not want to leave there and burn bridges.

Working out notice periods is part and parcel of working. I really do not see why you are making such a big deal out of this. You worked there for 8 months. That's a fair lenght of time. A month is not much to ask for. Plus it's hardly like you're not going to be paid for said month.

AdrianII

Thanks for all the replys ,
Basically - im working two weeks notice and have one week holidays left.

I rang th ecitizen advise buro and they said no matter what happens they have to give you the holiday pay,

As for giving only two weeks notice ( as far as im concerned i am still on probation), to be honest dont care about the company now as they treat us like cr@p.

As long as i get the holiday pay i dont care

Thanks for all your help

AARRRGH

AdrianII wrote:

Thanks for all the replys ,
Basically - im working two weeks notice and have one week holidays left.

I rang th ecitizen advise buro and they said no matter what happens they have to give you the holiday pay,

As for giving only two weeks notice ( as far as im concerned i am still on probation), to be honest dont care about the company now as they treat us like cr@p.

As long as i get the holiday pay i dont care

Thanks for all your help

You sound like a bad employee TBH.

YOU are screwing over your employer, not the other way round.

Why do you somehow think you are the one being hard done by here?

seamus

dublindude wrote:

You sound like a bad employee TBH.

YOU are screwing over your employer, not the other way round.

Why do you somehow think you are the one being hard done by here?

I have to agree. You are trying to screw the system here, like somehow you are the one being wronged. You're causing your company to incur costs by your leaving early. It doesn't matter if you're on probation. Most contracts still insist on one month's notice, even inside probation.

Talk to them, agree to work three weeks' notice and take the last week as your weeks' holidays. You don't really have another option. They can sue you for breach of contract.

the_syco

If you never signed a contract, you never agreed to give 4 weeks notice, tbh.

If, tho, you did sign a contract, read the fine print. It may say you give 4 weeks notice "or else...".

=-=

Also, some companies say "when can you start work?", I think this person said "two weeks". Stupid, but it happens, and thus the reason he's trying to leave in two weeks.

AdrianII

We were meant to sign the full contract after 6 months
but i never got a meeting so - i didnt sign the full contract

i have a meeting with the hr now, and have the facts and figures to hand that i require

as for me being a bad employee - i dont think so
over the last 2 months we have lost 8 staff, which have not been replaced and about 11 of us are doing the work of 22 -23 people

the_syco

AdrianII wrote:

i have a meeting with the hr now, and have the facts and figures to hand that i require

Let us know how you got on, will ya?

meditraitor

Good luck, personally I think the company you are with are acting the bollox,

"they do not have to give you holiday money if you dont give them four weeks notice" ---this is completly wrong in your case, even if you left tomorrow without giving them notice you are still entitled to 1.66* days per month of employment.

The way companies string people out nowadays is another reason why I wouldnt feel bad about only giving 2 weeks notice, as you said your probation period is long finished and they still have not approached you regarding a contract. good enough reason to leave in my book

as for what Seamus and DDude are infereing(your a bad employee,, are yous in HR?) , I wouldnt take to much notice, more often than not it is the company screwing you over and that is what appears to be happening here. Move on and Good luck in your new Job

2cent

AARRRGH

AdrianII wrote:

We were meant to sign the full contract after 6 months
but i never got a meeting so - i didnt sign the full contract

By saying you didn't sign a "full contract", are you trying to say you DID sign a contract... but not a "full one"?

If so, what are the terms for leaving on the "non-full" contract. 4 weeks?

AdrianII

2 weeks, tehn after 6 months you are meant to get the full contract (which is 4 weeks notice), they are stating that i have to give 4 weeks even though i didnt sign the "full contract"

seamus

meditraitor wrote:

as for what Seamus and DDude are infereing(your a bad employee,, are yous in HR?) , I wouldnt take to much notice, more often than not it is the company screwing you over and that is what appears to be happening here. Move on and Good luck in your new Job

My bad. Somehow I had gotten the impression that he'd signed a contract. Me making things up again.

If your initial contract said 2 weeks, and nothing about automatically bumped up to a "full contract" after six months, whether there's a review or not*, then you only have to give two weeks.

You may want to give your inital contract a read again. You may not have had to resign/renegotiate a new contract.

*Most contracts I've ever seen, lay out the conditions of a full contract, and then also lay out the conditions of the probationary period. They will usually say that unless otherwise agreed with you, the probabtionary period will be deemed to be either expired or extended. Depends on the contract.

AARRRGH

Yup, if you didn't sign a contract stating 4 weeks, then they are being arseholes.

It's their mistake, not yours.

Let us know how it pans out.

AdrianII

All sorted, two weeks notice and i get my holiday pay aswell

Sweet

thanks for all your tips and advise