Different caliber rifle bullet damage

chem

It makes me abit on easy looking at this topic, but its interesting to note that more damage is done by the 5.56 (.223) then by the larger 7.62(.308)

http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/basics/pmrb.html

woody

TBH A 5.56 round would'nt cause more damage from what I have seen up close oversea's in the army,well the exit wounds are smaller although the round like a 7.62 x 39MM AK47 round does tumble inside and destroy body organs.The 7.62 x51MM tends to put the target down but leaves a massive exit wound.

kasintahan

chem wrote:

http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/basics/pmrb.html

What a thoroughly depressing read of a tuesday evening:(

Hagar

Isn't that precisely why the British Army in Northern Ireland hated the Armalite? The round although relatively small was ballistically unstable and tumbled viviously on impact causing massive tissue damage.

Citizen_Erased

Is that compared to the SA80 or the FAL ? The SA80 is the same callibre as the armalite so they must have got over whatever objections they had.

woody

SA80 or L85A2 is 5.56 MM and uses a SS109 Prjoectile, the Russian 7.62 x 39MM Round does the same as the 5.56 and rarely produces an exit in line with entry.


The FNFAL or L1A1SLR was to powerrful for urban warefare as the round could penetrate brick walls etc unlike the smaller powered round although the SLR is a great weapon and really can put down the target hard.

Rew

Citizen_Erased wrote:

Is that compared to the SA80 or the FAL ? The SA80 is the same callibre as the armalite so they must have got over whatever objections they had.

Brits didn't use the FAL, they used a licenced copy called the L1A1 SLR. Not real differnce between em from what I know though.

The only BA who used Armalite's in NI was the SAS. The various subversive gorups got their hands on some Armalite's as well. The AK47 round is more well known for its tumbling and massive internal damage.

Seeing as massive tissue damage casued by a specfic round is only a problem for and army if you get shot by one I reckon Hagar ment the IRA etc using them as oppsoed to the BA.

I would say the 7.62 is most definalty the more lethal/damage inflicting round despite what that site says.

woody

The Para's also used the M16A2 with the M203 in south armagh aswell

Rew

woody wrote:

The Para's also used the M16A2 with the M203 in south armagh aswell

Intresing, id never heard that before.

woody

Being the Terrain that is there it was choosen over the SA80 and SLR.


I have been stopped a few times in the early 90's and late 80's by Para's armed with this, the M203 was basically meant for long range engagements with the Provo's although it would'nt have worked in Belfast or Derry as it would have caused a lot of damage.

I will see if I can find a few links....

Citizen_Erased

Would they not use th m203 for less lethal gerenade such as tear gas? Running around Belfast with offensive grenades sounds a bit careless?

*edit sorry , you said they wouldnt use it there. Still seems a bit dangerous though.

woody

the riot guns were used for that the generally used HE 40MM rounds to stop things such as truck bombs etc

Rew

Citizen_Erased wrote:

Still seems a bit dangerous though.

Assault weapons gnerally are

The 40mm grenades the M203 use are good anti-personell and offer flexibility in engaging targets like soft-skin , machine gun posts etc.

They do come in less then lethal variants as well.

Citizen_Erased

I'd say the 5.56 would do more damage because it diperses and fragment much better which , afaik the more lethal option than a large round spinning.
Would the rate of twist come into this at all or is does that only affect in differant situations?

Rew

The large tumbling rounds tend to bounce around the chest cavity causing an incredible amount of dammage before tearing a big exit wound.

Flattop 15

Rew wrote:

Brits didn't use the FAL, they used a licenced copy called the L1A1 SLR. Not real differnce between em from what I know though.

The difference is quite substantial.The British and Commonwealth FALs[we will use this generic term] were Inch pattern.That is they were built on imperial measurements[inch] and are liscensed built by various countries.Also the British FAL were SEMI auto only.

OTOH the Irish army used the genuine FN Liege product which was a select fire weapon.Also the metric weapons are considerd by collectors and shooters as the more valuable type.About the only thing that was not easy to interchange were the inch/metric mags.

The only BA who used Armalite's in NI was the SAS. The various subversive gorups got their hands on some Armalite's as well.

Met a group of paras once up there who were using them as well.About 87/88 that was,on a roadblock outside Bfast.

woody

The FN's we used here were semi auto although they had the provision for full auto, we used to use a match stick trick behind the trigger and get full auto in the leb not wise although"!

chem

Woody. Would pushing the lever to the full auto position, not have been easier then playing with matches

jaycee

Woody. Would pushing the lever to the full auto position, not have been easier then playing with matches

Perhaps ..

But not as much fun as lighting up the GPMG ...

woody

chem wrote:

Woody. Would pushing the lever to the full auto position, not have been easier then playing with matches

the auto selector was disabled on our fn's

Hagar

Rew wrote:

The only BA who used Armalite's in NI was the SAS.

Why would the British Army use these weapons?
If some unfortunate was shot by an Armalite round I wonder who the finger would be pointed at?
The IRA or the SAS? Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Barry Aldwell

Hagar wrote:

Why would the British Army use these weapons?
If some unfortunate was shot by an Armalite round I wonder who the finger would be pointed at?
The IRA or the SAS? Makes you wonder doesn't it?

More likely, they used them since the SA80 was/is extremely unreliable in dirty conditions, and the SLR was too heavy and had too much penetration.

civdef

Somehow I don't think this thread is going anywhere useful.