Lawrence Dallaglio's comments on Tana Umaga

aoa321

There were some very insightful comments by Lawrence Dallaglio on a panel on Sky Sports during the weekend.

He was speaking after the second Test and commented on Umaga in the context of the injury to Brian O Driscoll. Dallaglio said that he was surprised that Umaga did not come under more "scrutiny" by the Lions during the Test match.

When asked by the interviewer if he meant he would go out to "get" Umaga, he replied with an emphatic "no", but he did say that if the All Blacks wanted to play it rough he would be happy to play along.

He was then asked if he would task somebody with the specific job of hitting Umaga, again he said there was no question of fould play but what he would have done early in the game was to set Umaga up as a midfield target (presumably for a tackle) and then "send all 8 forwards over the top" !!

As an enthusiastic rugby fan, with absoloutely no expertise of the game, I found the comments fascinating. I was wondering what you all think ? Was he talking through his rear-end ? Was what he was suggesting outside of the rules ?

I also thought that the self-confidence that Dallaglio exuded was remarkable. I'm sure he will have his detractors and maybe even a few fans on this board, but while he was showing the All Blacks due respect it was also clear that he was in no way overawed by them. In short, he came across as a guy with balls !!

I'd love to get your thoughts.

jank

He wsa talking out of rear end imo

RuggieBear

dead simple idea.....just look at how munster and ireland have attacked full backs in the past. Tis a little bit harder with centre's but same idea. just look at the munster midfiled maul....

besty

its perfectly legal to set up a target against someone and send the whole pack in over it-someone may happen to get hurt at the bottom but its all within the rules as long as there is no blatant stamping etc. Comments like this before matches tends to be the problem as if any incident does arise, the IRB will examine the comments and assume that the attack was pre meditated.

righthand

What do you think of Dallaglio's remark about O'Driscoll's injury?

Dallaglio wrote:

"If I had been there, I have to say the first thing I would have done is to make sure that we sorted those two out straight away."
BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/4708247.stm

I believe he must have some Munster blood in him. Spearing is rare, but I've never heard of a double spearing before. I'm disgusted that this was not sorted out either on or off the pitch if not by officials then by players. A captain not checking with an injured player is unheard of.

I dreamt of our two Munster second rows approaching behind Umaga as the Hakka commenced for the next test. I wonder how long he would have stuck around awaiting some of his own medicine.

My alternate dream is the same except they do a dummy spear with the smallest Lion player, drawing it out in slow motion and maybe a repeat.

For the next Irish tour down-under, I propose the new Irish 'spear Hakka'.

Amz

Threads merged

Kevin_rc_ie

ah i love lar do you
?

Chucky the tree

righthand wrote:

For the next Irish tour down-under, I propose the new Irish 'spear Hakka'.

As stupid idea's go, thats up near the top. Well done.


All the people who have whinged about his tackle, i can gurantee if the same tackle was made on tana wehn nz come herel ater this year most of the people on here would be happy. YOus either think a spear tackle should be out-lawed or not, which is it?


WHat dallagio said was spot on. I was amazed he didnt come in for any special treatment. Nothing illegal just special treatment. It happens in alot of matches, specially when a team has a very good out-half, or a player who is very indisiplined. Look at grewcock, he will always be a target.

It happens in every sport, and will always happen.

Jilm

Chucky the tree wrote:

WHat dallagio said was spot on. I was amazed he didnt come in for any special treatment. Nothing illegal just special treatment. It happens in alot of matches, specially when a team has a very good out-half, or a player who is very indisiplined. Look at grewcock, he will always be a target.

It happens in every sport, and will always happen.

By that rationale, it's not inconceivable that BOD was targetted specifically by the ABs in the first Lions test for "special treatment".

righthand

Amz wrote:

Threads merged

I have no problem with the merge but we are talking about two separate interviews with Dallaglio. The first was mild on Sky Sports in early July.

The interview that I'm referring to was on the BBC Five Live's Ian Wright show two weeks later - this week. He was very explicate.

Dallaglio wrote:

"To be honest it wasn't sorted out by the officials. If I had been there, I have to say the first thing I would have done is to make sure that we sorted those two out straight away." http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/4708247.stm

For the likely captain of England to say this, indicates how seriously genuine rugby players view this. As an English man, it is in his best interest that the best centre in the 'home countries' is out of action. So why speak out?

I get the strong impression that some posters firstly never PLAYED the game and do not know the rules so I'll need to go very slowly. Worse they may not have seen the incident replayed frame by frame so are only as aware as most of the audience at the match.

1. High tackles, shoulder charge tackles and non use of arms are all illegal in rugby as they can maim.

2. Spearing is of course illegal but is worse as it uses the weight of the tackled played to spike him head first into the ground. It can be disguised as accidental. If intentional, then a card of either colour is needed.

3. I have never seen a double spearing before O'Driscoll. He DID NOT HAVE THE BALL. Each of his legs were lifted at the same time by two players and an attempt to spike him into the ground head first was made. He managed to twist so that his shoulder took all the force. Else a BROKEN NECK or DEATH was a reasonable possibility. This move would have to be PREPLANED and RESHEARSED!!! Without perfect timing he would have gone sideways. Off the rugby field, charges of attempted MURDER and causing actual body harm would be appropriate.

Can I be serious. Try with two friends to reenact the sequence. It takes some doing. As they have got away with it you will see this tried again. After someone less powerful than O'Driscoll has his neck broken or worse then remember if Dallaglio

janker wrote:

"wsa talking out of rear end imo".

He was saying out loud the new fears all rugby players face after this worst cock-up by rugby officials in my life. That took courage, as officials are not slow to act when jumping on the back of a prophet. So why is an English player sticking his neck out for an Irish player. Partly because we haven't.

All rugby teams have targeted individuals on the other side. Good players to lessen their impact; weak players, injured players, scrum-haves, out-haves, hookers, fullbacks, line-out jumpers, all are targeted. But nobody goes out intending to have any player stretchered off with an injury requiring months off, at least not until that test. In it's timing, execution and consequences, this was a case apart.

I'm no angel or bleeding heart. I learnt my rugby at boarding school in Limerick. Children didn't survive on Munster playing fields. My mammy in Dublin couldn't lick my wounds. I gave plenty and got plenty and still have the scars. Some of the babies on this thread would not last ten minutes in a Munster maul.

Injuries in rugby are common. There are less broken neck now but there are serious injuries needing months off. Dallaglio's injury was a total accident. Others are from the rough and tumble of the best contact sport (except the skills of hurling). Men earn a reasonable livelihood to entertain us. Many have returned from injury half the player before injury. That is my other concern about this incident. Will we get back the same player? How would you feel if your earning ability was effected by a deliberate sabotage.

Rugby is as much a head game as a physical sport. Throw-ins in lineouts, jumping in lineouts, kicking goal every aspect is a one on one as much as a team sport. Seeing your captain and world class player stretchered off does in your head. In a genuine national team, a leader would step forward and sort it. The tour was lost there. SIR Clive just doesn't cut it in the intimidation stakes. Any Celt would do. Blair PR specialist don't win rugby matches.

Any chance of revival required something special BEFORE the next test. O'Driscoll attempted something special before the first test. Now rejudge how my alternate Hakka reads. Rugby is war with rules. Intimidation is a large part of that. In the All Blacks case, they get to start the war before the whistle! The tour was certainly over before a ball was kicked in the second test. I believe serious rugby players understand this and it's not...

Chucky the thick tree wrote:

..as stupid idea's go, thats up near the top. Well done. All the people who have whinged about his tackle, i can gurantee if the same tackle was made on tana wehn nz come herel ater this year most of the people on here would be happy. YOus either think a spear tackle should be out-lawed or not, which is it?... Look at grewcock, he will always be a target.

I'm afraid that I'm not able to decipher it all. I think he may mean Wilkinson. Danny Grewcock isn't an out-half.

Up Galway, the last place in Ireland to discover rugby, TG.

Last thought. Anyone know who was responsible for the TV camerawork for the test. In seems extraordinary that there were no replay pictures to look at the time. There was nothing else to show. Mysterious.

Former former Munster/Leinster rugby player, still learning.

mh

Thank you, thank you, thank you, righthand!

Finally some sense in this thread. I have to admit to being one of the readers of thsi thread who have never played the game but as a more recent fan of the game I totally agree with your comments. This was the most cynical, outrageous attempt to deliberately attack a player in a possibly career ending / life ending fashion.

I have no problem with your comments (or even Dallaglio's) that rugby is not a game for wimps. It is a physical game that gets played hard - and a good player on the opposing side is a legitamate target for tackles that stay within the rules of the game.

The officials need to be taken out and horse whipped

Trojan

As a player, I agree 100% with what he's said.

As for it being in an English player's interest that BOD be hurt - it was a Lions teammate, and that's that.

Peter B

righthand wrote:

I believe he must have some Munster blood in him. .

Not sure about actual Munster blood but Dallaglio's second favourite team (bar Wasps) is Munster. He said in an interview (when Wasps were crap of course), that every year, when Wasps would be knocked out of the European Cup, (usually quite early) he would always go on to support Munster as he loved the team.

jank

Originally Posted by janker

When was my name janker?

Third_Echelon

jank wrote:

When was my name janker?

after you janked?

ocallagr

Well I never thought I would hear somebody else say it. Well said Righthand.

As a former tight-head prop I took and received lots of hard hits every match and when they are fair and legal I have no problem with them. But when someone does something as sick as what happened to BOD it is the job of the ref to sort this out. I was never a dirty player and the only time I ever got involved in afters was when an opponent went after my eye or something like that and the ref did nothing about it.

There is no place for what happened to BOD in the game and you can be sure that a repeat of this kill the game, parents will not let kids play a game where this kind of thing can happen.

righthand

ocallagr wrote:

Well I never thought I would hear somebody else say it. Well said Righthand. As a former tight-head prop I took and received lots of hard hits every match and when they are fair and legal I have no problem with them. But when someone does something as sick as what happened to BOD it is the job of the ref to sort this out. I was never a dirty player and the only time I ever got involved in afters was when an opponent went after my eye or something like that and the ref did nothing about it.

There is no place for what happened to BOD in the game and you can be sure that a repeat of this will kill the game. Parents will not let kids play a game where this kind of thing can happen.

Your very kind remarks are most welcome and appreciated.

Check out the RUGBY RULES HELP thread that I started to keep uptodate. There you'll get some previous background on me. I also was a former tight-head prop. My best was two Inter-Provincial school boy caps for Munster, although born and bred in Dublin - county. Big hearts , us props, eh. Can't keep a good man down. If any team mate had a problem, who did they see to have it sorted - your friendly prop. You can get me nearly anytime at the new MWC Forum

Maybe we should form the Rugby Props Union. After all we carried half the weight of the team on our shoulders.
.

aoa321

righthand wrote:

If any team mate had a problem, who did they see to have it sorted - your friendly prop.

... I like it lads !!

Mungaman

righthand wrote:

3. I have never seen a double spearing before O'Driscoll. He DID NOT HAVE THE BALL. Each of his legs were lifted at the same time by two players and an attempt to spike him into the ground head first was made. He managed to twist so that his shoulder took all the force. Else a BROKEN NECK or DEATH was a reasonable possibility. This move would have to be PREPLANED and RESHEARSED!!! Without perfect timing he would have gone sideways. Off the rugby field, charges of attempted MURDER and causing actual body harm would be appropriate.

Are you for real? I mean I have read some seriously misguided sh*t in my time but do you seriously think that the All Blacks decided that BOD had to go, then trained to up end BOD? Come on mate just think about it.
I can't belive that so many people are agreeing with this. Emotive I can understand but you have no idea if you seriously think that your comments above hold any truth at all.

righthand

Mungaman wrote:

righthand wrote:

...3. I have never seen a double spearing before O'Driscoll. He DID NOT HAVE THE BALL. Each of his legs were lifted at the same time by two players as an attempt to spike him into the ground head first was made. He managed to twist so that his shoulder took all the force. Else a BROKEN NECK or DEATH was a reasonable possibility. This move would have to be PREPLANNED and REHEARSED!!! Without perfect timing he would have gone sideways. Off the rugby field, charges of attempted MURDER and causing actual body harm would be appropriate.

Are you for real? I mean I have read some seriously misguided sh*t in my time but do you seriously think that the All Blacks decided that BOD had to go, then trained to up end BOD? Come on mate just think about it.
I can't believe that so many people are agreeing with this. Emotive I can understand but you have no idea if you seriously think that your comments above hold any truth at all.

Video sparks crackdown on spear tackles
Fresh footage shows brutality of Mealamu IRB reveals six-month bans for similar offences
Paul Rees, Guardian
Wednesday October 26, 2005

The International Rugby Board yesterday announced a crackdown on spear-tackling with offenders facing a six-month ban. It came on the same day as an amateur video of the incident in last June's first Lions Test that left Brian O'Driscoll with a dislocated shoulder revealed the full part played by Keven Mealamu in the assault.

Footage of the incident was received by Sky Television yesterday that showed the incident in its entirety. New Zealand's hooker picked up O'Driscoll's left leg before Umaga grabbed the right leg. The video, shot from the other side of the pitch than the TV footage, shows Mealamu forcefully directing O'Driscoll head first to the ground. The Lions captain, who is in the middle of five months' lay-off as a result of the tackle, twisted his body to protect his head as he crashed to the floor and sustained his injury.

The former England coach Dick Best, speaking on Sky Sports News, reacted angrily to the new footage: "It was a malicious and brutal tackle that got swept under the carpet and they got away with it to a certain extent. I think it's a disgrace. It shows the height that they've lifted this player up and dropped him down on his shoulder. It is quite unbelievable." "It was a malicious and brutal tackle," added Best, who was also a member of the Lions management in New Zealand in 1993. "The fact it was brushed under the carpet was a disgrace: O'Driscoll could have broken his neck. I think there should be an inquiry into the whole affair."

So, is Dick Best "seriously misguided" also. I don't think so. MUNGAMAN, you seem to be the one seriously out of step. What does "seriously misguided sh*t in my time" UMAGAMAN have to say now.

Off the rugby field, charges of attempted MURDER and causing actual body harm would be appropriate.

I stand by this. Umaga's behaviour afterwards in not doing the norm of checking on an opposing injured player further showed his intent to harm.

[Jackass]

Well at the time I was saying that spear tackles punishments should range from 1 year worldwide ban to a lifetime ban of setting foot on a rugby field.

Effectivly, they obviously made a serious attempt to carry out a career ending tackle. They could have also crippled him for life or even killed him.

I think a 1 year ban for Umanga & Mealamu would be lienient, and I would love to see them both recieve a life ban. I would love it if this was a retrospective rule...but unfortunatly it would make it almost impossible to implement and a legal nightmare.

6 month ban is a cop out, and makes you wonder why they botherd there arse doing anything if that was all they were going to come up with.

It's a shame it had to come to this though....I'll never respect NZ rugby again.

Mungaman

[3. I have never seen a double spearing before O'Driscoll. He DID NOT HAVE THE BALL. Each of his legs were lifted at the same time by two players and an attempt to spike him into the ground head first was made. He managed to twist so that his shoulder took all the force. Else a BROKEN NECK or DEATH was a reasonable possibility. This move would have to be PREPLANED and RESHEARSED!!! Without perfect timing he would have gone sideways.

I still stand by what I said, your making a claim that the All Blacks trained and pre planned getting BOD into that position.
Do you honestly think thats the case?

Off the rugby field, charges of attempted MURDER and causing actual body harm would be appropriate.

Off the feild why would Umanga and Mealumu be up ending BOD. There has been cases in New Zealand and abroad of serious assult on rugby players and their action whilst playing.

I have had my opinion on this I've seen it so many times I watched all the footage , I condemed the actions, the stupidity of an All Black Captain not to offer his apologies. I also stated before that the IRB should have acted and brought action against the players.
Mate your just getting to emotive if you think that the tackle by the two players was pre empted and pre planned . You obviously have spent a good few hours on the pitch **** does sometimes happen.
BOD will sell a few more books and we'll all see two fired up teams on NOV 12

righthand

DubGuy wrote:

Well at the time I was saying that spear tackles punishments should range from 1 year worldwide ban to a lifetime ban of setting foot on a rugby field.

Effectively, they obviously made a serious attempt to carry out a career ending tackle. They could have also crippled him for life or even killed him.

I think a 1 year ban for Umaga & Mealamu would be lenient, and I would love to see them both receive a life ban. I would love it if this was a retrospective rule...but unfortunately it would make it almost impossible to implement and a legal nightmare.

6 month ban is a cop out, and makes you wonder why they bothered there arse doing anything if that was all they were going to come up with.

It's a shame it had to come to this though....I'll never respect NZ rugby again.

Well said.

Against NZ, I propose an Irish Hakka. The two second row re-enact with Stringer the event of the BOD incident as the All Blacks perform their Hakka. That would get some attention and dilute the effect of their war dance. Maybe 5 sets of 3 players and we would have better than the first Riverdance! I advocate practice in advance as this maneuver is capable of damage, even in fun. Advanced knowledge of this would fill the ground.

'Spearing practice' at half time by scantily clad females in red Lion/Munster outfits would be a hoot.

Stretch*

Maybe the irish could nominate their big tough front row to deal to Umaga next time! Get over it. Learn to bet us on the field, not cry into your beer afterwards. I don't condone alleged up ending incidents, however I have known rugby players to suffer 3 or more dislocated shoulders in the course of their career...

RuggieBear

Stretch* wrote:

Maybe the irish could nominate their big tough front row to deal to Umaga next time! Get over it. Learn to bet us on the field, not cry into your beer afterwards. I don't condone alleged up ending incidents, however I have known rugby players to suffer 3 or more dislocated shoulders in the course of their career...

again u miss the point.

I've dislocated my shoulders over 10 times (it's chronic and more or less stopped me proping) but not once was a dislocation caused by foul play or 2 players deciding to take me out illegally off the ball.

The sooner you kiwi's learn not to be such utter blind bastards and to defend the indefensible, the better

Stretch*

I don't condone the Umaga incident as I've said previously,however it was v/early in the game and was a rush of blood probably with the snap decision to ruffle his dignity or gain the upper hand psychologically...I doubt, in the light of Umaga's previous history as a balalnced mature fair player that he suddenly decided to maliciously maim BOD, The Nonu dump?..as I say get over it....he has learnt a lesson, it was not dangerous and wouldn't have earned a second look in a league game.

RuggieBear

Stretch* wrote:

The Nonu dump?..as I say get over it....he has learnt a lesson, it was not dangerous and wouldn't have earned a second look in a league game.

hmm...while i think it was a dangerous spear tackle that should have seen at best yellow.... at least it went thru the citing process.

Hopefully he has learned a lesson, but i can't help but feel that he probably hasn't. How stoopid do you have to be to come even close to making a dangerous tackle in that game considering how forshadowed it was by the BOD incident.