HELP - Lambda Probe New VW Beetle

AlisonB

Hi all,

please help! the check engine light was on in my car for couple of weeks .. brought it to the garage in which case they stuck it on diagnostics and told me that the lamda probe was gone. Fair enough. 300 euro it cost me. The minute i drove out the garage gates the "check engine" light came on again. I brought the car back to the VW dealers again today and the stuck it on dianostics again... and told me that there is two lambda probes and that the second one is gone. I thought there was only one???????? Is he just trying to make me pay for the faulty new one he put in or is there really two probes????? i dont want to pay another 300 quid for another probe to find out it's not the lambda probe in the first place... please help..

Ali

Kali

I'm not technically up to speed, but as far as I'm aware theres generally only one.. and its used to monitor/control the fuel mixture from the ecu... that seems like a lot to replace one, though I guess its all labour... if you feel you're being screwed over just ask him to show you both the diagnostic report and what he has replaced.

AlisonB

thanks... i called a random dealership in Dublin and they said there was two probes.. well the probe itself is 180, diagnostics is another 60 ... looks like i just have to buy another.. :eek:

el tel

If this is a new beetle is it still within the 3 year warranty -
Maybe the probes are covered by the warranty, if there is one?

check this place out, you may find it generally interesting if you are a new beetle owner:
http://www.newbeetle.org.uk/

AlisonB

P.S the reason why i'm such a sceptic - a garage (in Kilcock) once told me i needed a new clutch.. so i bought a clutch cable saved myself a few pound there ......i think they quoted me 350 pound.. compared to 20... needless to say i went shopping once i got it going

AlisonB

hey el tel - it's just out of warranty unfortunately..

amerden

AlisonB wrote:

hey el tel - it's just out of warranty unfortunately..

How far out of warranty and what mileage ??
As the dealer to put in a sympathetic warranty claim on your behalf for the TWO probes

Sleipnir

You could kick up a stink claiming that the liklihood of both failing at the same time is remote to say the least.
He could very well have replaced the good one accidently and now is charging you again to replace the bad one.
Kill him.

AlisonB

amerden - just after checking the registration certificate. Date of licensing is the 23/07/2002... which means i would be under warranty if i get three years but i dont know whether i do or i dont .. i'm presuming they would have told me if i was under warranty .. or then again maybe they wouldnt. yeh i thought about them replacing the wrong one alright but the probes must come up individually on the diagnostics because he said that the other one was turning up faulty now.

amerden

Contact VW direct and ask them what the life expectancy is for these probes, years & mileage, explain what has happened, manufacturers can and sometimes will help out with the costs.

SouperComputer

He could very well have replaced the good one accidently and now is charging you again to replace the bad one.

this is quite true.

Id be pretty pissed, am I right in saying the following:

1. Diags showed failed Lambda Sensor.
2. Lambda sensor changed.
3. Despite the knowledge that it contains 2 sensors, they never bothered to check all was ok after replacing the 1st one? IE re-run the diags?
4. Despite the knowledge that it contains 2 sensors, they never bothered to check the 2nd sensor even without hooking up diags?

B**lox

At the very least they should waive the diag fee.

bazz26

el tel wrote:

If this is a new beetle is it still within the 3 year warranty -
Maybe the probes are covered by the warranty, if there is one?

check this place out, you may find it generally interesting if you are a new beetle owner:
http://www.newbeetle.org.uk/

VW only give 2 years warranty in Ireland, its 3 in the UK.

As for the original post, I would try and get them to pay at least half it as good will. Start telling them that you were thinking of buying a new one in January, blah, blah but this has you seriously thinking twice. No harm in trying.

Saturnine

Universal lambda sensors would have done just as well and cost about €100 in your local motor factors.

lomb

98746 LAMBDA PROBE TOOL 22MM GENERAL USE 7.50 Add
93010 LAMBDA PROBE TESTER General Use. 26.00 Add
93021 LAMBDA PROBE G4 1.6 45.00 Add
93022 LAMBDA PROBE G4 1.6/1.8/2.3 45.00 Add
93000 LAMBDA PROBE General Use 1 WIRE UNIVERSAL 16.50 Add
93002 LAMBDA PROBE General Use 2 WIRE UNIVERSAL 16.50 Add
93004 LAMBDA PROBE General Use 3 WIRE UNIVERSAL 29.75 Add
93006 LAMBDA PROBE General Use 4 WIRE UNIVERSAL (ONLY FITS >1996) 34.00 Add

prices in stg +vat from german swedish, 300 is too dear for a probe tbh...

AMurphy

sure it could have been a lamba (O2) probe, BUT, and average idiot with half a brain can figure out WHICH sensor and exactly what's wrong with it. They are identified in the software.
even my hand helf instrument can determine between 4 possible probes (4 is common on "V" engines), ie, Bank 1 & 2, upstream (1) and downstream(2).
And any of you with direct petrol inj V4/6/8 can expect up to 6 of them.

see photo here

And this tool works perfectly with EU VW's. or did at least.

So, the software could/should have told him WHICH one, othewise, how the hell could they test the heater element if they cannot address each one specifically and individually.

next, what you been burning on this car. leaded?. or how many miles?. these things usually last for 45 to 90Kmls. The downstream one will last for much longer as it runs cooler and the exhaust gasses have been neutralized, so they are not as errosive/corrosive or hot.
You did not say which one was changed.
Also, you mechanic did not indicate exactly what was wrong with it. ie was it the sendor failure or the heater failure. Heater failures could be ignored until NCT time, unless you do a lot of stop and go driving, Reason, the exhault gasses of a driven engien will heat the sensor adequetly.

Also with any sort of a test tool he could determine if the voltage signal off the sensor looked normal or biased.

anyway too late for that. lookes like you are at the mercy of a knuckle dragger with a tool he cannot use.

byw, I have found Bosch 4 wire O2 sensors expensive overall, no idea why.

I also have an old but slightly used 4 wire Bosch/VW sensor here, I put it in the (Toyota) truck, even though, the truck requires only a 1 wire, so the heater is not connected.
I since acquired the correct sensor for the truck, but yet to fit.
got any part numbers for a cross check. it has only 2~3K mls on it since fitted. It's off a GTI.

Here see if you can locate your specific O2 sensor(s) here;

http://www.oxygensensors.com/

and here are all the tools you'll need in a nice pack.

https://www.automedicsupply.com/pictures/27110_.jpg

$lash

There are two Lambda Sensors ... Prolonged driving with one of these sensors gone can mean that the second sensor is recieving incorrect information (potentially damaging the sensor itself) ... However before going to the expense of replacing the Lambda Sensor - Ask VW to knock the fault code off the ECU they can do this using their diagnostic pack and see if the fault re-occurs -

If you do not want to go to the trouble of bringing the car back to VW leaving the battery disconnected for 15minutes should also reset the ECU. If after this the C/E light comes back on it means the sensor will have to be replaced.

AMurphy

Here are a list of sites dedicated to scantools for the professional and the DIY artist with a spare laptop/Palm pilot, etc.

http://www.actron.com/
http://www.iequus.com/
http://www.autoenginuity.com/
http://www.batauto.com/articles/Carcoderview.shtml
http://www.obd2.com/
http://www.easesim.com/
http://www.elmelectronics.com/
http://gendan.co.uk/diagnostic/index.shtml
http://www.planetfall.com/~jeff/obdii/
http://obddiagnostics.com/
http://www.obdii.com/
http://www.scantool.net/
http://www.myscantool.com/
http://www.obdiicsu.com/ScanTools/ScanTools.asp
http://www.skpang.co.uk/ecu_reader.htm
http://www.ross-tech.com/index.html
http://www.onboarddiagnostics.co.uk/obdcodes.htm
http://store.yahoo.com/scantool/index.html

AMurphy

here is another useful link;

http://www.bosch4less.com/

el tel

bazz26 wrote:

VW only give 2 years warranty in Ireland, its 3 in the UK.

That's bonkers, I didn't realise there's a difference UK/Ireland in terms of warranty duration. So up in the North my car enjoys an extra year, lucky for me, but hardly fair for people down here

AlisonB

Well, all thanks for the reply, unfortunately some of that went over my head.. here's the update.. as you know i'm aiting on the second sensor to come in .. yesterday the "check engine" light went off of its own accord ... so i said maybe it's a dodgy signal. I received a phone call this morning "Alison, that part is in", i replied, "well the light has gone off so ..........." and he replied "well Alison it's an intermittent problem so it'll come on again"... can this be the case... ? which is making me think that i'm putting two probes into the car for no reason. I have a sneaky suspicion the light is going to come on after i replace the two.....yes i know i should have bought a universal bosch, i saw one on ebay for 40 quid christ i should have bought it even to chrome it and say it's my reason for getting rid of the damn car.

$lash

Disconnect Battery for 15mins and reconnect - this will reset all of the ECU fault codes - If the C/E light comes on again after this the sensor will have to be replaced -

AlisonB

thanks didnt see your initial reply.

$lash

AlisonB wrote:

thanks didnt see your initial reply.

No worries - let us know how you get on..

AMurphy

$lash wrote:

Disconnect Battery for 15mins and reconnect - this will reset all of the ECU fault codes - If the C/E light comes on again after this the sensor will have to be replaced -

btw, is there any specific fuse that could be pulled and achieve the same result.
eg on my van there is a fuse marked "IOD", it is the direct feed to the ECU's , radios, alarms, and if pulled will do the same job as you describe above and of course, screw up your radio if coded.

$lash

AMurphy wrote:

btw, is there any specific fuse that could be pulled and achieve the same result.
eg on my van there is a fuse marked "IOD", it is the direct feed to the ECU's , radios, alarms, and if pulled will do the same job as you describe above and of course, screw up your radio if coded.

That is the ECU relay more than likely -

AMurphy

The relay for the ECU, efi, etc is the "ASD" Auto shutDown Relay.

the IOD (Ignition Off Draw) is a fuse and identified in the manual as the fuse to pull for that purpose of cutting power to the ECU's, Radios, etc.
I draws about 50ma of current constantly, even with the ignition off.