Lines Of Code In MSWord?

Oriel

Just out of interest (and to settle a debate), how many lines of code do you think there would be in the whole of MsWord (XP)?

Cheers,
S.

damnyanks

31

Tobias Greeshman

Millions... well over a million easily (more than likely written in C), though it would use a lot of DLL calls with the shared base code over all the versions being put into libraries, so code would be cut down a fair bit. If you look into the Office directory Im sure you'll know what Im talking about...

charlo_b

why not use the word count, it has a line count figure also!!

hostyle

sinecurea wrote:

Just out of interest (and to settle a debate), how many lines of code do you think there would be in the whole of MsWord (XP)?

And how many of those lines do you think were actually necessary :P

Tobias Greeshman

charlo b wrote:

why not use the word count, it has a line count figure also!!

Are you taking the piss there? Since we dont have access to the source code to Word that aint gonna be a whole lot of use now is it!

mewso

hostyle wrote:

And how many of those lines do you think were actually necessary :P

Well it being Microsoft and their programmers being so sub-standard obviously half the lines because we all know how bad microsoft software is and that there is nothing they do that isn't good or involving skill so yes half maybe more.

charlo_b

silas wrote:

Are you taking the piss there? Since we dont have access to the source code to Word that aint gonna be a whole lot of use now is it!

No I'm being deadly serious!!! :rolleyes:

Oriel

I was guessing not far over a million lines

Capt'n Midnight

It depends on the version
Also depends on how many easter eggs are in it
and NSA hooks put in by agents working undercover in there
and which service pack and what addons you have added.

you could look here to see how many lines it could be done in
http://download.openoffice.org/index.html - should have source there.

WizZard

One really, really long one...

mewso

Have a look at the videos on channel 9 - http://channel9.msdn.com/ I am sure it was mentioned in something Might take a while to find it.

damnyanks

musician wrote:

Well it being Microsoft and their programmers being so sub-standard obviously half the lines because we all know how bad microsoft software is and that there is nothing they do that isn't good or involving skill so yes half maybe more.

Are you for real or taking the piss ?

mewso

Are you for real or.... of course I'm taking the p. Amazingly enough Microsoft do produce good software despite the open source blinkers so many people like to wear.

Capt'n Midnight

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_lines_of_code

http://wesnerm.blogs.com/net_undocumented/2005/02/windows_reveale.html - 15% of the source code revealed !

http://www.dacs.dtic.mil/techs/baselines/productivity.html

Microsoft Word 1.0 had 27 KSLOC; Word is now about 2,000 KSLOC (Brand 95).

that was a decade ago , so 27K lines for the basic word processor , the rest is bloat

damnyanks

musician wrote:

Are you for real or.... of course I'm taking the p. Amazingly enough Microsoft do produce good software despite the open source blinkers so many people like to wear.

Exactly

Thought you were one of them, my bad. Sorry.

Capt'n Midnight

musician wrote:

Amazingly enough Microsoft do produce good software despite the open source blinkers so many people like to wear.

Application name has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

NeverSayDie

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Application name has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

Ironically enough, the most frequent cause of that dialog on my system is FireFox.

Re MS Word, I recall hearing there were approx 25 - 30 million lines of code in Office overall, not sure how that divides up between the individual applications.

damnyanks

Is the source of open office available?

NeverSayDie

damnyanks wrote:

Is the source of open office available?

Yeah, here:

http://download.openoffice.org/1.1.4/source.html

damnyanks

That would give some sort of idea as to how big office could be. I'd to write a command line text editor recently as a project. It's amazing the hassle you have to goto to do basic things you take for granted due to using high level languages

rsynnott

musician wrote:

Are you for real or.... of course I'm taking the p. Amazingly enough Microsoft do produce good software despite the open source blinkers so many people like to wear.

Hmm, the only obvious piece of good Microsoft software I can think of is MS SQL Server. Of course, they didn't write that... Visual Studio isn't bad... WinXP isn't DREADFUL.

Kernel32

I find WinXP to be very stable, as well as Visual Studio.Net. I am very excited about Sql Server 2005 and VS.net 2005. I am hoping to convert our core products to it over the next 12 months.

L1011

damnyanks wrote:

Is the source of open office available?

Yes, and its BLOODY GIGANTIC. Its larger, compressed, than the entire OS I use, and uncompressed its larger than the publically known figures for the source code of the OS (85MB uncompressed) plus all the apps I use...

I'd not be surprised if OpenOffice's source base is larger than Microsoft Office by a big margin - its never cleaned up, its never flushed out of stuff thats not been used in years.

Mutant_Fruit

rsynnott wrote:

Hmm, the only obvious piece of good Microsoft software I can think of is MS SQL Server. Of course, they didn't write that... Visual Studio isn't bad... WinXP isn't DREADFUL.

Visual Studio has some really annoying quirks which i've already run into despite only having been programming in it for 3 weeks.

I've noticed that all events in items such as datagrids and dropdowns can get reset if you cut and paste the item. Also i've had problems with my datagrid losing its event associations when i moved it into a freshly made HTML table. So, when i went to reorganise my work into tables (which i should have done at the start of my project, but as i've only been programming C# and ASP.net for 3 weeks, i can be forgiven) i ended up having to spend a good 20+ minutes wondering why the feck my procedures weren't being called, and then when i realised it, i had to go through and reassociate about 30 events!

Also, i can't format the HTML in my page the way i want. If i reorganise the open/close tags to make it more readable for me, VS just moves em all back to where they used to be. That made my life hell earlier when i was trying to read through the HTML to tweak it to perfection.

There were 2 more quirks i noticed, but can't remember what they are now.

Its larger, compressed, than the entire OS I use

Firefox is larger than the entire OS i used to use. The sourcecode for windows 2000 was well over 40 gigs (can't remember if that was compressed or not).

The sourcecode for your OS is probably quite a few hundred mb. Its all the comments that should be in the source that bulks it out so much. Out of interest, is it a stripped down linux OS?

Kernel32

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Also, i can't format the HTML in my page the way i want. If i reorganise the open/close tags to make it more readable for me, VS just moves em all back to where they used to be. That made my life hell earlier when i was trying to read through the HTML to tweak it to perfection.

If your trying to tweak HTML in VS.Net then your using the wrong tool. Its not an HTML tool, its a web application development tool. I have managed the development of and developed web apps that have been been created and maintained in VS.net. They have hundreds of pages and no one needs to even look at the HTML as long as you use the tool as it was intended.

hostyle

Kernel32 wrote:

If your trying to tweak HTML in VS.Net then your using the wrong tool. Its not an HTML tool, its a web application development tool. I have managed the development of and developed web apps that have been been created and maintained in VS.net. They have hundreds of pages and no one needs to even look at the HTML as long as you use the tool as it was intended.

Hear, hear. Except of course MS would probably not be happy that you called VS.Net a "web application development tool" - surely it can do more than web apps?

That said, I'm happy enough with basic text editors and sane source code. Plus the bloat of extraneous javascript just to click on a link (and failure of anything to happen when clicking said links some of the time in IE6 [WTF?]) that asp.net generates really turns me off MS web dev products. Session data should be either server side or client side - not both. (Dont come down on me too hard - I haven't used asp.net, I've just seen some of its results).

Kernel32

hostyle wrote:

Hear, hear. Except of course MS would probably not be happy that you called VS.Net a "web application development tool" - surely it can do more than web apps?

That said, I'm happy enough with basic text editors and sane source code. Plus the bloat of extraneous javascript just to click on a link (and failure of anything to happen when clicking said links some of the time in IE6 [WTF?]) that asp.net generates really turns me off MS web dev products. Session data should be either server side or client side - not both. (Dont come down on me too hard - I haven't used asp.net, I've just seen some of its results).

Yes your correct, it is way more that a web application development tool, I stated it very poorly. But the point I was trying to make is that its not a tool for modifying HTML. The .aspx pages themselves aren't even what I would consider to be HTML pages as they contain a mixture of serverside tags, html and meta data.

I haven't come across any of the other problems you mentioned and I've been putting out asp.net production apps since beta2. It sounds like they are related to improper configuration of the webserver. Vs.net 2002 had some nasty bugs related to the code generation that happens when you do things in the designer. These were fixed in VS.Net 2003 and apart from a few annoyances here and there I haven't seen any other problems.

rsynnott

Kernel32 wrote:

If your trying to tweak HTML in VS.Net then your using the wrong tool. Its not an HTML tool, its a web application development tool. I have managed the development of and developed web apps that have been been created and maintained in VS.net. They have hundreds of pages and no one needs to even look at the HTML as long as you use the tool as it was intended.

It does however produce horrible code in some cases. Have a look at http://www.thedailwtf.com and note the inappropriate uses of Javascript in links where a conventional HTTP request would have done the same thing but allowed the opening of a new window if the user wanted, for example.

Mutant_Fruit

I'm not "tweaking" the text, i just like it formatted in a more readable manner. When i write my C# code all my line spacings, indents and suchlike are all perserved. VS doesn't go rearranging my c# code removing excess empty lines, or reformatting the layout of my comments, but it does this for the HTML code. Which is rediculous! Theres no reason whatsoever for it to rearrange my HTML code. It doesnt do it for c#, so why should it do it for the HTML. It was really annoying me last friday because i had to wade through the HTML tags fixing a few errors, and finding closing/opening tags was a pain due to the fact VS kept moving em on me.

OWASPIreland

its actually 43 LOC
The other 10,000,000 lines of code are used by the NSA/CIA to track what you are writing.

WizZard

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Visual Studio has some really annoying quirks which i've already run into despite only having been programming in it for 3 weeks.

I've noticed that all events in items such as datagrids and dropdowns can get reset if you cut and paste the item. Also i've had problems with my datagrid losing its event associations when i moved it into a freshly made HTML table. So, when i went to reorganise my work into tables (which i should have done at the start of my project, but as i've only been programming C# and ASP.net for 3 weeks, i can be forgiven) i ended up having to spend a good 20+ minutes wondering why the feck my procedures weren't being called, and then when i realised it, i had to go through and reassociate about 30 events!

Yes, PITA but you get used to it. Supposed to be fixed in VS .NET 2005

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Also, i can't format the HTML in my page the way i want. If i reorganise the open/close tags to make it more readable for me, VS just moves em all back to where they used to be. That made my life hell earlier when i was trying to read through the HTML to tweak it to perfection.

It happens, but I use Dreamweaver or notepad2 to tweak the HTML outside of VS.NET after I'm sure the page won't need to be worked on again.

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Out of interest, is it a stripped down linux OS?

Wow, MYOB will be so insulted! It's BeOS IIRC

Mutant_Fruit

WizZard wrote:

Yes, PITA but you get used to it. Supposed to be fixed in VS .NET 2005

Oh, so they want us to upgrade to the latest and greatest VS.NET instead of fixing the bug in 2003? Bastids, all of em! Its a bug, not a feature, they should fix it, not force us to upgrade to make it work right. :mad:

WizZard

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

... Its a bug, not a feature, they should fix it, not force us to upgrade to make it work right. :mad:

Yrue, but maybe it's an undocumented feature!

Hobbes

WizZard wrote:

One really, really long one...

I've seen code like that.. no seriously.

stevenmu

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

I'm not "tweaking" the text, i just like it formatted in a more readable manner. When i write my C# code all my line spacings, indents and suchlike are all perserved. VS doesn't go rearranging my c# code removing excess empty lines, or reformatting the layout of my comments, but it does this for the HTML code. Which is rediculous! Theres no reason whatsoever for it to rearrange my HTML code. It doesnt do it for c#, so why should it do it for the HTML. It was really annoying me last friday because i had to wade through the HTML tags fixing a few errors, and finding closing/opening tags was a pain due to the fact VS kept moving em on me.

I think the reason it does it for the html and not for the C# is that it views the C# as 'your' code but the html belongs to it. It wants you to design the page visually and it creates the html code from what you do in the designer window. Because it has to generate the designer window from the html code it tries to keep it in a form it can parse easily. Just a guess, I've only payed with ASP.Net little bit, but I've come across other similar issues with other IDEs

pickarooney

Hobbes wrote:

I've seen code like that.. no seriously.

Check out some of the stuff on here.

RicardoSmith

I've been using it a little bit and I haven't had these problems. But that said I don't use the design window for layout, we use CSS and XML froms for that. Usually its closing tags as part of the intellisense. Theres a bunch of shortcut keys for intellisense that allow you accept or ignore what it suggests.

Personally I find it a great IDE coming from VB. The only problems I've experienced is people trying to bend it to their way of working rather than going along with .Net Framework. We've had a few minor issues with sourcesafe and .net though.