'Full Mouse' Article

roryc

Did anyone read the article about online poker in yesterdays Sunday World?

Was all about some fella [snipped] who makes a living out of online. He says he can make a living out of poker through one simple proven statistic.

"around 85% of online players are long-term losers, and only 15% are long term winners. The typical player just wants entertainment"

Now although I play online purely for entertainment, I'm not a 'long-term' loser, as I have only ever put 20euro into my account, and built it up from there. Still, I would have though that overall, it would only be about 5-10% that are 'long term winners'?

he goes on to say

"thats why I usually wait until 11pm. That's when you get the worst players - and that's when you can make the most money"

so everybody looks for the fishes...

He says you can beat the game through "calculating probabilities and so on, but it requires a lot more than that. You need discipline and concentration, and you need persistence to adopt a strategy to cope with the luck elements"

The article also talks about Leanne 'Las Vegas' Smith, who apparently makes 6,700 euro a week from online. Not bad... for a girl

Dub13

I have not read it yet I have the Sunday world in work so I will read it tomorrow.[snipped]

Ardent

I'll openly admit to being a fish on online Poker. Kind of anyway. Put in 20 quid on VC Poker initially, turn that 20 into a 140 and now I'm back down to 10.

Thing is, I consider myself to be a decent player, do very well in live games but I can't seem to cope with online games. Too many weird players online. I'm sometimes afraid to raise heavy online because invariably some muppet will go all in with 22 preflop or some such. I have gotten killed on the river by junk a lot.

Here's an example of the kind of play you see online that you wouldn't see anywhere else:

Start of a game, I have A4 preflop, I limp in. Flop comes 44A. Some guy raises 400 chips, another guy goes all in, another guy calls etc etc. Ends up with me being all in with three other guys who each had absolute junk. How do you play in that kind of environment?

Ardent.

P.S., where do guys [snipped] make their money online - single tourneys or open tables?

Culchie

Ardent wrote:

Start of a game, I have A4 preflop, I limp in. Flop comes 44A. Some guy raises 400 chips, another guy goes all in, another guy calls etc etc. Ends up with me being all in with three other guys who each had absolute junk. How do you play in that kind of environment?

Happy Days, quadruple up, and go and make a cup of tea, mow the lawn and comeback in 20 minutes.

Why complain about this?

NickyOD

The main reason players lose money online is because they do not use proper bankroll management techniques or play above their limits. It actually has less to do with their ability as a player. If they don't put in enough money to give themself a fair crack of the whip at th elevel they want to play then eventually a downswing will eat their money they have to reload again.

Culchie

NickyOD wrote:

The main reason players lose money online is because they do not use proper bankroll management techniques or play above their limits. It actually has less to do with their ability as a player. If they don't put in enough money to give themself a fair crack of the whip at th elevel they want to play then eventually a downswing will eat their money they have to reload again.

Nicky, never a truer word was said !

It's amazing how this philosphy goes out the window for alot of players who play live though.

NickyOD

Culchie wrote:

Nicky, never a truer word was said !

It's amazing how this philosphy goes out the window for alot of players who play live though.

Absolutely. You need a bigger tank to play live beacause there's really no such thing as low rolling unless all you want to play is the Fitz Freerolls. People think they can start off with €500 and have a go at the cash games at the Fitz when even as a winning player you'd need several thousand squids to be safe. Since this sort of Bankroll is over most people's heads they take a chance and hope for a breakthough, but in most cases they end up reloading continuously. Since I really don't have that kind of money to invest in a live bankroll I have to rely on my winnings from the internet and hope to make enough to eventually have one. Playing poker underfunded is beyond stupid.

Hectorjelly

NickyOD wrote:

The main reason players lose money online is because they do not use proper bankroll management techniques or play above their limits. It actually has less to do with their ability as a player. If they don't put in enough money to give themself a fair crack of the whip at th elevel they want to play then eventually a downswing will eat their money they have to reload again.

I think a big reason that a lot of people claim to be winners offline but losers online is that its far easier to fool yourself into thinking your winning offline as its harder to track the bottom line.

Ardent

Culchie wrote:

Happy Days, quadruple up, and go and make a cup of tea, mow the lawn and comeback in 20 minutes.

Why complain about this?

Not complaining about that, just making a point about the standard of play.

roryc

its the difference between playing for entertainment and playing to make money.

Some people see poker as a hobby which can, at times, be profitable. Most of these will end up losing money in the long term, but its usually its an amount they can afford to lose.

Of all my friends that play poker, I am the only one that could say i've made a profit so far this year from playing. They spend on average 50euros a week on poker (freerolls, online, sit + go's)

We call these people fishes, but most of them can afford to lose a few euros here and there. It is only a small percentage that consistently lose big because basically they are crap players that keep spending to recoup their losses. These are the real fish.

The players that consistently win big are the one's that put a lot more time and effort into improving their game. They have bankrolls and see poker as a moneymaker first and entertainment second. I think the Americans see poker in the latter sense, as more of a job than for fun. Most Europeans mix making money with socialising.

Out of interest, what catagory of poker player would everyone say they are?

ionapaul

Poker is a hobby for me, but I do play with the intention of making money! I simply don't have the time or the inclination to grind and play online for stakes that don't mean anything to me. Playing for smaller stakes offline is easier, but when categorising my outgoings in my mind, the money I use comes from my 'entertainment' budget and not my 'speculative investments' one!

I suppose if I played cash games at all, with that attitude I would be every serious poker player's ideal opponent

Imposter

A lot of the idiot plays online can be put down to tiredness or other factors that you night be able to pick up on in a live game. That could be why there seems to be more bad beats online. That and the fact that it's easier for most people to play online rather than play live.

NickyOD

Imposter wrote:

....That could be why there seems to be more bad beats online. .....

I dunno. I've honestly had my worst bad beats in live games. It must be because I have one of those faces. No one ever believes me and I get called down and outdrawn a lot. I can't imagine why. :rolleyes:

Dave

I would categorise myself as a a player who plays for entertainment first, money second. The reason is because I'm only starting out atm, so i'm quite obviously still learning, so it would be stupid to say "Oh, I've 3 months poker experience under my belt, and I seem to do well at low limit sng's so I'll play to have an extra source of income." It doesn't mean that I don't play well or try to improve my game. I devour anything that has to do with poker with the aim to making myself a better player. Maybe in a few years my priorities will change, I suppose it depends on the type of player I become.

NickyOD

At the moment I am playing with the goal of going full time in the near future. I DO play for entertainment as well as making a profit. If I didn't make a profit I certainly would not find it entertaining and I really don't understand how people can injoy poker and lose all the time even if they are just low rolling. Why not play on Yahoo instead? It's free!.

My real entertainment comes from tournaments. The grinding is done in the cash games to fund the tournament buy ins which can be stressful but there's nothing sweeter than the boost of getting it all in with a monster in a cash game and taking down 3 max buy-ns in won pot.