New VW Passat

AlanD

Hi,

anyone go look at the new Passat at it's launch in your local dealer at the weekend? I did and was well impressed.

I went back today for a drive of the 1.9 tdi in comfortline spec. It's an expensive car since it's a VW, but at last it comes pretty well specc'd. In baseline spec you don't get much but in comfortline spec, which is probably what most people will buy, you get lots of nice extras like dual zone climate control, electric seats (well some parts are electric), nicer interior trim, cruise control and a few other bits and bobs. There's a lot of nice touches too like a cooled storage box that doubles as an arm rest. Loads of little storage holes. Comfie seats. Loads of leg room in the back plus air vents for your passengers. There's a little hook in the boot that will hold your bags of shoppnig. The boot is cavernous. There's also those red waterfall lights ah la Skoda Superb which are a great idea I think.

To drive, the 1.9 diesel with 105 bhp is pokey enough. It won't set the road alight but it's quick enough and there's plenty of sound supression so it feels nice and calm inside. The steering is a bit numb, but it turns pretty directly and has a ride that's more comfortable than sport, yet feels good enough to have a small bit of fun on the back roads.

The biggest problem is the lack of alloy wheels on a car costing 33k. Why oh why would anyone want hubcaps. Their alloys wheels are too expensive too. Some of their extras are far too expensive too. Xenons are 1600 for flip sake. I know their those directional jobs but that price is ridiculous. The VW umbrella which fits in to the door is 55 euro. Extras are ridiculous on a car like this, but for what you get in the comfortline spec there's enough in it.

You know it's going to hold it's value too so it's a car that's going to be easy to live with and will do it's job with enough whatever you want to call it, so that you feel that it was 33 grand well spent. If only the 2.0 tdi wasn't 38 grand!!

Anyone else's opinion?

prospect

AlanD wrote:

There's also those red waterfall lights ah la Skoda Superb

What are those?

AlanD

Above your head by the reading light over the rear view mirror there are two small red LED type bulbs that light up at night time. When you are looking out the window you don't seem them, but when you look in the cabin there is enough red light to see things. Makes rumaging around in the dark so much easier. They are low powered things so as not to affect your driving. Very effective in the skoda and should be the same here too.

AMurphy

Are they still using a collection of unreliable ball joints in teh front suspension?.

weemcd

AlanD wrote:

Above your head by the reading light over the rear view mirror there are two small red LED type bulbs that light up at night time. When you are looking out the window you don't seem them, but when you look in the cabin there is enough red light to see things. Makes rumaging around in the dark so much easier. They are low powered things so as not to affect your driving. Very effective in the skoda and should be the same here too.

Those things are a very good invention, you'd never notice them accept when you are looking for something beside you. Only ever seen them in the uncles 530d (omfg, nice car)

podge3

Why do people continue to buy Volkswagen cars when they are overpriced/under specced and less reliable than their Japanese counterparts.

While I have not looked at the new Passat, with the older one you were lucky to get 4 wheels and an engine in the base model. Similar story with the Golf/Polo.

Volkswagen cars consistently fare badly in reliability polls such as JD Power. This is rather strange as Skoda cars do very well in the same polls/surveys.

A family member is trading a (low mileage) 2003 Passat for a new one at a cost of 12k i.e. €6,000 per year. Some depreciation, even for the model change.

bazz26

podge3 wrote:

Why do people continue to buy Volkswagen cars when they are overpriced/under specced and less reliable than their Japanese counterparts.

While I have not looked at the new Passat, with the older one you were lucky to get 4 wheels and an engine in the base model. Similar story with the Golf/Polo.

Volkswagen cars consistently fare badly in reliability polls such as JD Power. This is rather strange as Skoda cars do very well in the same polls/surveys.

A family member is trading a (low mileage) 2003 Passat for a new one at a cost of 12k i.e. €6,000 per year. Some depreciation, even for the model change.

€12k to trade up 2 years is crazy. :eek: And I thought VWs had good resale values.

I have a 2003 Avensis 1.8 Luna (new type) with 53k on the clock since new and was talking to my local dealer about 2 months ago while it was in for a service, he was trying to get me to trade up. He wanted €6.5k to go up 2 years to a brand new model with the same spec, etc. There was me thinking that this was a bit expensive.

Back to the OP question, I didn't see the Passat in the flesh but did get a catalogue from VW and it does look nice. Not too sure about the rear though, very similar to the new Jetta. It looks a bit big for a 1.6 entry level model. The 170bhp 2.0 TDi would be interesting but way too expensive for me.

BrianD3

podge3 wrote:

Why do people continue to buy Volkswagen cars when they are overpriced/under specced and less reliable than their Japanese counterparts.

Because of perceived quality, past reputation, image, marketing etc.

Volkswagen cars consistently fare badly in reliability polls such as JD Power. This is rather strange as Skoda cars do very well in the same polls/surveys.

I think this highlights one of the flaws with JD Power - it is biased by expectations and perceptions of owners. Skoda owners might rate their car 9/10 for reliability if they have one breakdown in 2 years. VW owners might rate their car 6/10 for reliability with the same amount of breakdowns as they have higher expectations than the Skoda owners.

Personally I don't really like the new Passat. The front looks OK but the back reminds me of the original Lexus GS300 i.e. ugly. I also don't like how big these cars are getting. The Passat is virtually the same size as a new 5 series BMW or a mid eighties 7 series :eek:. IIRC the Passat is 188 inches long vs the Beemers 190 or 191. The car is not as heavy as the dimensions would suggest but still the 1.6 petrol is going to be a bit puny. Also, how come the 1.9 diesel only produces 105 bhp when Peugeot's 1.6 diesel in the 407 prodcues 110 bhp

podge3

bazz26 wrote:

€12k to trade up 2 years is crazy. :eek: And I thought VWs had good resale values.

I have a 2003 Avensis 1.8 Luna (new type) with 53k on the clock since new and was talking to my local dealer about 2 months ago while it was in for a service, he was trying to get me to trade up. He wanted €6.5k to go up 2 years to a brand new model with the same spec, etc. There was me thinking that this was a bit expensive.

€6.5k is excellent for two years motoring - a 2 year old Primera would cost at least €7.5k to trade up.

drdre

the new passat s amazing i went to see it,even though i got a new 2005 golf about 1 moth ago. the passat is really nice.

also japanese cars are crap compared to vw,who cares about depriciation as its been used by u.if someone cares about depriciation then donot buy a car just get a donley cart thats cheaper:D
the golf is amazing i thought it would be alright but its one fast car.i checked it to the max last week on my way to portloaise.
it was nice:D

Squirrel

What dealers did you go to? And drdre, what dealer did you get your Golf from? There is a possibility that I had a hand in cleaning it.

bazz26

drdre wrote:

the new passat s amazing i went to see it,even though i got a new 2005 golf about 1 moth ago. the passat is really nice.

also japanese cars are crap compared to vw,who cares about depriciation as its been used by u.if someone cares about depriciation then donot buy a car just get a donley cart thats cheaper:D
the golf is amazing i thought it would be alright but its one fast car.i checked it to the max last week on my way to portloaise.
it was nice:D

Was that the powerful 1.4i 75bhp version. :rolleyes:

AlanD

I'd agree, Passat's of the past have been spec'd really badly. As someone said, you'd be lucky to get 4 wheels. It really bothered me that people would spend so much money on a car with nothing in it, especially when it wasn't really that good of a car. As AMurphy pointed out there were ball-joint problems in the past and I know from experience that many of them had flywheel trouble.

So as someone else said, it's the perceived quality that people pay for. Yes, the skoda has pretty much the same build quality and the same mechanics, but one thing I did notice is the quality of the materials used for building the car. I've been looking at the new Octavia and this new Passat. The seats are hard and not that adjustable in the Octavia and the quality of the dash plastics is poor enough. On the other hand the Passat has very comfortable seats and the dash is now very nice compared to the old Passat's. The new car really is a nice place to be. I think VW have come a long way and thankfully VW Ireland are offering something other than baron spec, so I think there is value to be had with the new Passat in Comfortline spec upwards. You do get a good car for your money.

I'm going to drive the 1.6 FSI in a few weeks to see what it's like. I think it might be just enough, but if you added 4 adults, a boot full of luggage and something on the roofrack, you wouldn't have a hope of accelerating. It'd take a week to get to 60 I'd say. The 1.9 105 bhp really is alright, but god, they can do better than 105 bhp! In this day and age it's poor enough. It is an old engine though and the 2.0 tdi really would be the one to go for, but it's far too expensive. The excuse being that the VRT threshhold has been reached for an increased rate and that's why it costs 38k. But then skoda manage to sell that same engine in their Octavia for about 30k.

It's badge snobbery if you ask me. The VW really is no better than your 407, S40, Avensis, Primera, but because of people's perceptions of quality and image which has been built up over the last 20 or more years, people will pay more for them. I think it's wrong, but I may be just about to follow the crowd. The Passat really is a nice car now and is one I would buy. So long as I can get the right price for my own, otherwise I'd walk away. I'm not that desparate to buy one and would never let a salesman know that either.

unkel

BrianD3 wrote:

expectations and perceptions of owners

Exactly. If you've just spend €17k on a brand new Skoda Octavia knowing full well it is the same car, same engine, same spec as a €22k VW Bora, you're bound to be a little bit more tolerant about it

yellow012

BrianD3 wrote:

Also, how come the 1.9 diesel only produces 105 bhp when Peugeot's 1.6 diesel in the 407 prodcues 110 bhp

It's a newer design thats why.
Anyway I would be very surprised if it only produces 105bhp. Volkswagen tend to underplay the power outputs on their diesels. the 130bhp tdi's output was around 140bhp, the 150bhp tdi was actually nearer 175bhp.

AlanD

yellow012 wrote:

It's a newer design thats why.
Anyway I would be very surprised if it only produces 105bhp. Volkswagen tend to underplay the power outputs on their diesels. the 130bhp tdi's output was around 140bhp, the 150bhp tdi was actually nearer 175bhp.

You are right, according to the Superchips website who claim they can add 27bhp to this particular engine with their ECU upgrade. Their initial rolling road BHP for the standard engine is 118 and their upgrade will bring it up to 143 bhp. Nice increase!

This 1.9 tdi engine does feel pretty brisk though.

AlanD

one thing I forgot to mention about the new Passat is that the gearbox is lumpy. In this day and age, manufacturers still make a lumpy gearbox. It's ridiculous. Gear changes feel as if you are dragging a stick along some cobblestones. That was the biggest fault in the car I'd say

HashSlinging

I test drove this at the weekend. What an improvement, like yourself I drove the 1.9TDi and was impressed by it, I have a VW caddy (new model) as my company car and its a very flexable engine. I've got a fair few smiles out of it. have it a month and after 5k its really nice. Never tested the 2.0 Tdi, waiting for next year!

caster

Had a look at the Passat over the weekend. Very busy in the dealers so didn't think look for a test drive but will do next time. Thought the car looked very stylish. Interior was very classy, lots of gimmicks with only one major gripe - hard plastic on the lower side of the dash - how could VW get this kind of thing so right in other cars (e.g. previous Golf) and then go back to this.... But overall, a great looking car.

Can't quite make up my mind between this and the Mazda 6. Has anyone tried out or heard anything about the 1.6 petrol Passat yet? 2.0 is probably out of the price range but I have my doubts if a 1.6 would have sufficient power for a car this size. Any ideas?

bazz26

Have not driven the 1.6 FSI engine but it has a 6 speed gear box as standard. I still think it would be a bit underpowered in that big body.

By the way the Mazda 6 is getting a midlife facelift in September, mainly cosmetic changes including a new front grill and headlights, improved interior plastics and new rear lights similar to the 3. They also launch an MPS version which has similar performance to a Mondeo ST220.

Ernest

Had a quick look over the new Passat last weekend - saleman too busy to be bothered giving any help or information - and it looked nice from the side and from the front but what have they done to the rear end??????? The twin round light clusters look terrible - like something out of a Renault or a Nissan. There is very poor choice of colours - although that shouldn't be a problem in Ireland as nearly everyone seems to want a black or grey (metallic = silver ) car. Also there didn't seem to be any 1.8 litre petrol engine available - just 1.6 and diesel - but maybe I'm mistaken in this. The car's interior looks nice but not all that different to the old Passat but has a better specification. But could I live with that rear end???? :eek:

bazz26

VAG are discontinuing producion of the 1.8 20 valve and 1.8 20 valve turbo engine. This was in previous generation of VW/Seat/Skoda and Audi models. This is being replaced by the 2.0 FSI engine (Golf GTi) when any of the VAG models are been revamped or replaced by a newer model.