I bet no one else here calls

Hectorjelly

Final Table $25 mtt Holdem No Limit 600/1,200
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : Hand Start.
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : Seat 1 : auctioneer0 has $20,360
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : Seat 3 : herbst50 has $13,880
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : Seat 4 : hectorjelly has $20,935
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : Seat 5 : tumsch has $1,650
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : Seat 7 : paulocon has $42,735
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : Seat 8 : AAplz has $42,440
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : paulocon is the dealer.
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : AAplz posted small blind.
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : auctioneer0 posted big blind.
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : Game [173] started with 6 players.
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : Seat 4 : hectorjelly has Th Kh
[Jun 15 02:48:55] : herbst50 folded.
[Jun 15 02:48:57] : hectorjelly called 1,200 and raised 2,400
[Jun 15 02:48:58] : tumsch folded.
[Jun 15 02:48:59] : paulocon folded.
[Jun 15 02:49:00] : AAplz folded.
[Jun 15 02:49:03] : auctioneer0 called 2,400
[Jun 15 02:49:03] : Dealing flop.
[Jun 15 02:49:03] : Board cards [6s 9c Qs]
[Jun 15 02:49:05] : auctioneer0 checked.
[Jun 15 02:49:07] : hectorjelly bet 5,000
[Jun 15 02:49:09] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 4 min. Break in: 7 min. Players : 6
[Jun 15 02:48:52] : auctioneer0 has 10 seconds to respond.
[Jun 15 02:48:53] : auctioneer0 called 5,000 and raised 11,760 and is All-in
[Jun 15 02:48:58] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 4 min. Break in: 7 min. Players : 6
[Jun 15 02:49:04] : hectorjelly called 11,760
[Jun 15 02:49:04] : Showdown!
[Jun 15 02:49:04] : Seat 4 : hectorjelly has Th Kh
[Jun 15 02:49:06] : Seat 1 : auctioneer0 has Jc Js
[Jun 15 02:49:06] : Seat 4 : hectorjelly has Th Kh
[Jun 15 02:49:12] : Board cards [6s 9c Qs 3d 5s]
[Jun 15 02:49:12] : Seat 1 : auctioneer0 has Jc Js
[Jun 15 02:49:12] : auctioneer0 has Pair: Jacks
[Jun 15 02:49:12] : Seat 4 : hectorjelly has Th Kh
[Jun 15 02:49:12] : hectorjelly has High Card : King
[Jun 15 02:49:12] : auctioneer0 wins 41,320 with Pair: Jacks
[Jun 15 02:49:18] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 4 min. Break in: 7 min. Players : 6
[Jun 15 02:49:53] : Hand is over.
[Jun 15 02:49:53] :
[Jun 15 02:49:53] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 3 min. Break in: 7 min. Players : 6

My thinking was that he didnt have a strong hand, he thought for a long time before raising, so he had 1 pair at best. Against most 1 pair hands I have at least 8 outs and Im getting 3:1. If I fold here Ill be a shortstack with ten big blinds against reasnable players, I can probably outlast Tumsch and move up to 5th, but im going to need to catch a few hands. If I call and win I will be joint chip leader and can push the table and almost certainly finish 1/2nd.

jem

The heading is correct. I wouldn't have called, then again I probably wouldn't have pushed with an inside straight draw either.

Dr_Colossus

Correct I definately wouldn't call here. I don't know where you picked up the read that he didn't have a strong hand. He calls your preflop raise and then check raises all-in on the flop. Where's the weakness here? Don't think you can attribute a weak hand to someone taking his time on final table decisions.
Given that he called the preflop raise and then check raised all-in I think the worst possible hand you can put him on is something like K9 or A9 with at least one if not two spades. I would have thought his most likely holdings would have been something like 10sQ, JsQ, QK, AQ or possibly some flush draw like As10s, AsJs, Ks10s, KsJs or some low suited connectors like 7s8s. Given each of these holdings you have at most 7 outs and you are getting 2.5:1 on your money (not 3:1 as indicated, no point in rounding up to justify a call) therefore can't see how you can call.
Given his check on the flop I think the strong bet flop is good as your are really hoping he missed the flop and will fold stronger hands like A10, AJ etc putting you on a pocket pair or top pair. However if he were to bet the 5000 into you on the flop do you just fold and give up the hand or would you come over the top as a semi bluff as realistically you are drawing to a gut shot straight draw?
Can't believe how poorly he played the hand and that he didn't re-raise you preflop. He had a great hand to re-raise potential stealers and tell the table his blinds weren't up for grabs. Also by not betting the flop and then raising he is really out on a limb hoping you didn't hit a Q and will fold. What would you have done Hector if you were in the BB with the Js?

TacT

I wouldn't have raised preflop but I would have called a raise to see it -- depending how big. I'd have checked the flop and I would have folded to a bet, especially an all-in. I definitely wouldn't have called, he put you on a draw and was dead on in that regard. I'd have played pocket 10's/9's/8's exactly the same way he played his JJ. Then again, I might have just pushed my JJ all-in preflop.

Riddle me this from the 1.5K freeroll last night since we're on the subject! If the game was down to 4 players and you're on sb with 110K and bb has 120K and you get dealt AJs, what would you have done? Bearing in mind that the two players under the gun have folded.

I pushed him all-in looking for his blind -- 10/20K and he called me with 9Js and caught a 9 on the river busting me out for a 4th position finish :eek:

DapperGent

At 10k/20k it's a good place to push. He's a moron for calling.

As for Hector's hand I'd have been expecting him to have a crappy Queen when he pushed though I'd be petrified he had QJ or QK (not unlikely holdings), the last thing I'd expect him to have would be JJ.

I'd think that I'm quite a bit behind with a reasonble chance that I'm miles behind which would make me inclined to fold. Carrying on with 10k is near suicidal from the perspective of trying to get top 2 though so it's a tough one. All in all probably fold given that I think there's a good chance he has QT, QJ or QK and I'm a complete dog for the hand.

If I knew a bit more about him:

1. From his earlier play I think there's a chance he might push here having only paired the 9 or on a bluff then call in a shot.

2. I have him filed under pretty tight/ pretty good. Fold.

3. I dunno much at all about him. As above: Fold.

Daithio

Hector,
I think the call at that stage is almost irrelevant, you're screwed if you do and you're screwed if you don't. The two mistakes you made were raising with that hand in the first place and then following through with the bluff on the flop. If you check you have a chance of hitting a J or a K; the former is a dream card and the latter certainly good enough to go with, so, having made the pre flop raise I would definitely see a free card on the turn after being given the opportunity. Also a bluff on the turn is a much stronger play then a bluff on the flop. So having found myself in your situation that is what I would have done, but I think the biggest mistake of all was the pre flop raise in the first place. The play you tried was one for a much bigger stack at that stage of the tournament. With a stack like yours you can't afford to be playing such marginal hands as K10; a pre flop raise and a follow through add up to half your stack. Then you realise you are behind and what do you do? So, the moral of the story is don't get too attached to hands like K10 when you can't afford to!

Hectorjelly

Good Post, remember though its 6 handed with gigantic blinds; this isnt like raising utg with TKs at a full table with small blinds. I dont think KT is that marginal in this situation.

Taking a free card looks good in reflection, but that is precisely the bet I would make no matter what cards I hold on that board - and no-one is going to believe I slowplayed an overpair on a nasty board like that. If I check the flop then he will bet the turn and I will have to give up on the board.

Daithio

Yeah I reckon checking is definitely the right option, although it's alot easier to say so when not actually in the situation. I suppose if he bets into you on the turn you can still give it up, you've only lost about a 6th of your stack, or, if you think he's bluffing or will fold the hand, you've got enough to go over the top with which is alot stronger than just betting out at the flop. I do like K10 and it is good 6 handed but I still reckon it will get you into trouble more times than not with a stack like yours was.