QJs on Button

AmarilloFats

$200 tables on Party. 6 Max.

Folded to me on button with QsJs.
I Raise to $6.
SB folds.
BB calls (we both have about $200)

Flop - Qh Jc 6h

BB Checks, I bet $12, BB calls.

Turn 8h

He checks, I check!!!!! (is this weak or good use of position/control of potsize???)

River Ac

He bets $15, I call..

Manky...Comment on all streets appreciated.

NickyOD

If he calls the flop bet really quickly it usually means he is drawing so if you felt you had a good read on him checking the turn isn't a terrible play. I would probably have bet $24 on the turn and lost it. Did he have A-J?

Jaden

I agree with Nicky. Bet the pot on the turn to shove him off.

biteme

To me it looks like he has KT and is sure that you haven't hit a flush..

JuliusFranco

well he might have something KT, 9hTh or just two hearts, which the check call on the flop and the check on 4th st might indicate

i would have perferred a bet on the turn to see where you're at but i would have probably lost it too

what did he have??

Ardent

I reckon he made the flush.

AmarilloFats

Yeah He had KT for broadway...
Some of you said u wud have bet the turn..I think this is a better play...
I called $15 on River...SURELY I would have been better betting that $15 on turn!!!!!!!!

And regardless of my turn play I should have folded the river...ahhhhh
I mean ever straight and flush draw has got there....What Do I need a smack in the head...
In my defense I find that alot of the time my checking the turn induces a bet from a weaker hand on river like KQ, AX...Hands that would have folded to my turn bet....!!

Nicky, you said if he called quickly it tends to be a draw....Has anyone else found this to be a reliable tell???

Hectorjelly

There are advantages and disadvantages to betting the turn. If you had of bet the turn you would of lost more in the hand, or gotten not gotten to a showdown.

DeVore

I'd be wondering what he called the flop bet with. you get ugly cards for most scenarios on turn and river. I would check the turn most likely, fearing a small flush and might have dropped it on the river, though its quite possible I'd have called the $15 (reluctantly!). Nothing particularly wrong with your play there imho...

DeV.

Samba

Mmm, I think you have to read him for a draw here and lay it down.

Personally I would have flat called on the button, small bet the flop to see where i stood, his calling would indicate a draw, i would have checked the turn and river.(yes yes, I am over cautious, but it saves $'s)

If he is a monkey (and by him calling your raise with K10, this is a fair presumption) he is going to call your bet on the turn even if you try to push him off the pot, there is no getting rid of some players, once they have a draw they have a firm belief they will win the pot and so they call monstrous raises that can be very costly. of course this is good if he misses but as it stands there is a straight and flush draw there very dangerous and hard to see which one he is drawing to, the check on the turn could mean a made hand

You can push a good player off a draw but not a poor one.

This is without a doubt check and check and get away unscathed.

ocallagh

Hectorjelly wrote:

There are advantages and disadvantages to betting the turn. If you had of bet the turn you would of lost more in the hand, or gotten not gotten to a showdown.

Bet the turn big. More often than not he'll miss so you want as much cash out of him as possible. if the draw comes on the river, you can drop your hand. if it doesn't come on the river you'll get nothing out of him. so essentially, by checking the turn, you are giving hi a totally free card with no risk... and an easy way out on the river. You only check the turn if you think you are behind on the flop. But, this will depend on your own judgements

NickyOD

AmarilloFats wrote:

Nicky, you said if he called quickly it tends to be a draw....Has anyone else found this to be a reliable tell???

Yes, almost always. Even someone with second pair will think for a second, TP would usually raise so a quick call normally indicates a draw. The problem with this hand is there are multiple draws so you cant know whether he has KT or the flush, but you should take advanatge of your position and bet the turn anyway. Sometimes you will get check raised, but it is a +EV play long term since you will be ahead more often than not. If the turn was the Ace or 9 of hearts then its a judgement call based on on your read on the player.

Hectorjelly

ocallagh wrote:

Bet the turn big. More often than not he'll miss so you want as much cash out of him as possible. if the draw comes on the river, you can drop your hand. if it doesn't come on the river you'll get nothing out of him. so essentially, by checking the turn, you are giving hi a totally free card with no risk... and an easy way out on the river. You only check the turn if you think you are behind on the flop. But, this will depend on your own judgements

You were almost certainly ahead on the flop, you would have to be a very bad player to try and slowplay a set on that board. However the turn completes a straight draw and brings a third Flush card. If your opponent had any type of draw on the flop then its likely to have hit, as there is only 1 reasnable draw for your opponent to hold that hasnt been completed on the turn, and many combinations of hands that now have you beat.

If you check behind you save money when against all of the hands that now have you beat, you also ensure that you can get to a showdown - which means you cant get pushed off your hand and importantly you get a chance to hit a boat on the river for free.

Im not saying that betting here is wrong - but it makes a lot of sense to keep this kind of pot small.

TacT

I hate QJs it's a rotten, stinking hand to play. Even if you hit your flush with it, you have Kings and aces to worry about. Kicker trouble is big trouble and will cost you your stack. Even if you hit a pair you have King and Ace kickers to be worried about and it will cost you a lot of money in the long run if you force yourself to believe that it's a good hand.

Here is a nice example from a hand I played about two weeks back. I get dealt AKs (hearts) on the button and there is a $3 raise in ahead of me. I reraise it to $8, everyone else folds and the raiser calls my reraise. The flop comes Axx (xx = two hearts). I overbet the pot twice it's current size, making it look like I don't want him hitting his flush against my ace pair, which I am also drawing too.

He calls, thinking he's a clever ickle bunny and another heart comes on the turn, giving me the nuts. I wait a little bit then check back to him, to give the impression that I'm weak. The chap didn't hesitate for a second and thinking he was so smart to call a bet two times the size of the pot to hit his weak ass flush, proceeds to push me all-in, believing he has me beat and I clean him out. Player x has left the table and I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

Moral of the story is, you do not raise with QJ, suited or not unless you like losing your stack on a regular basis.