Watercooling noob questions

Khannie

So.......I'm considering going the watercooling route. I have a maximum budget of 300 euro.

I currently have a fairly old machine, but I want to keep it going until UT2007 comes out, then upgrade everything (keeping the watercooling stuff).

My current spec is Athlon 2800+ @ ~3200+ speeds, 768MB of ram and a 6600GT.

I have a few questions though:

1) Does watercooling pay for itself? i.e. I can buy a mid-range processor, watercool it and overclock the crap out of it to get high-end speeds. Will this save money in the long run?

2) What would you recommend for 300 euro or less?

3) Kit or parts? (for a noob)

4) What kind of clock speeds should I expect to get a watercooled socket A processor up to?

Thanks in advance.

unklerosco

http://www.hitide.ie/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_22_37/products_id/181

For a first timer thats a great kit, its the first kit i got and it was class... Great performance amd was easy enough to setup.. The instructions r nice n clear.

1. I was able to get my old 2.8P4c running at 3.6-3.8 stable on the kit above...

2. above

3. Kit above as u can add to it if need be(gpu block, extra rad etc...)

4. All depends on ur cpu/mobo/ram etc..

WizZard

I would advise getting an Arctic cooler for your 6600GT instead of WC it, it's easier for the start.

Ross is right about #4.

#1: No, but it's cool (pardon the pun)
#3: Kit, custom kit for a start - I always find the deep end best for learning!

#2: This DangerDen kit is very nice, shipping is minimal from CoolerCases: TDX Hi-Flow £175.99

or on the same page, the Maze4 Specialist II bundle.
<edit>€300 is about £200 so I would go all out and get the Maze4 Ultimate bundle, or the TDX High-Flow Plus. </edit>
These are kits you have to put together yourself but it's worth it - always leaktest though!!
The Maze4 allows you to WC the chipset too, but you could ask Paul @ Coolercases to swap it for a graphics block.
Both of these kits will provide a decent upgrade path, basically if you upgrade to another AMD64 chip you should have no problems - but you can get block adapters for P4 and above chips too for each water-block. The TDX block provides higher flow, meaning that your CPU should run cooler, theoretically allowing a higher overclock.

<edit>Also the Kit Ross specified does not have adapters for socket 939 processors, which limits the upgrade potential. Try the XXS if you are going to go with Innovatek</edit>

Prosta

If you want to try watercooling you can have this stuff (not including fan) for free. I was trying to sell but got no takers.

I used to use it on my Athlon XP 2100 but the waterblock can only be fitted to a mobo with 4 mounting holes in it.

Rad is the heatercore from a Fiesta. Its big but fits into a 5.25" bay
Res is from a Salad dressing condiments set in Dunnes.
Pump is 230v and will have to be plugged into mains.

All you need is some 12mm tubing (and a fan)


If interested you can collect from me in Blanchardstown or Navan. PM to arrange.

unklerosco

did u make that urself(inc waterblock).. looks nifty.. I'll take it if Khannie don't want it..

jessy

Khannie wrote:

1) Does watercooling pay for itself? i.e. I can buy a mid-range processor, watercool it and overclock the crap out of it to get high-end speeds. Will this save money in the long run?

yes you can buy a midrange processor Like a P4 3GHz and OC it to 3.6-4GZH I bought a P4 3.6 And OCed it to 4.32GHz which you cant buy but in general you dont OC to save money

Khannie wrote:

3) Kit or parts? (for a noob)

For a Newbie, a kit would do nicely

Khannie wrote:

4) What kind of clock speeds should I expect to get a watercooled socket A processor up to?

Thanks in advance.

Any where from 10-20% maybe even more, its generally down to the chip itself

rsynnott

Khannie wrote:

1) Does watercooling pay for itself? i.e. I can buy a mid-range processor, watercool it and overclock the crap out of it to get high-end speeds. Will this save money in the long run?

What? No, of course not.

Khannie

Prosta wrote:

If you want to try watercooling you can have this stuff (not including fan) for free. I was trying to sell but got no takers.

Wow! Sound. Thanks.

Prosta wrote:

I used to use it on my Athlon XP 2100 but the waterblock can only be fitted to a mobo with 4 mounting holes in it.[/IMG]

Mounting holes eh? You mean the screws that connect the mobo to the case? Or are there other holes?

I have an asus a78n-x (or similar code to that) and an athlon 2800+. Do you think it would fit mine? I'd hate to take it if unkelrosco could use it an I couldn't. Otherwise I'll arrange over PM

Khannie

rsynnott wrote:

What? No, of course not.

Well....if you have a look at processor prices (I'm using komplett), the A64 X2 4400+ costs 599 and the 4800+ costs around a grand. If you could buy a 4400+ and OC to 4800+ speeds with 300 euro worth of watercooling kit then you've just saved a hundred euro (for example).

Even if you only saved 200 odd each time, and did it over two generations, you'd save money (taking the cooling block and mounting rack into consideration).

airetam_storm

Khannie wrote:

Well....if you have a look at processor prices (I'm using komplett), the A64 X2 4400+ costs 599 and the 4800+ costs around a grand. If you could buy a 4400+ and OC to 4800+ speeds with 300 euro worth of watercooling kit then you've just saved a hundred euro (for example).

Even if you only saved 200 odd each time, and did it over two generations, you'd save money (taking the cooling block and mounting rack into consideration).

Good savings can be had for high end chips but thats because there all leaps in prices for little improvement
How bout something like a 3000+ Venice?

WizZard

Khannie wrote:

Well....if you have a look at processor prices (I'm using komplett), the A64 X2 4400+ costs 599 and the 4800+ costs around a grand. If you could buy a 4400+ and OC to 4800+ speeds with 300 euro worth of watercooling kit then you've just saved a hundred euro (for example).

Even if you only saved 200 odd each time, and did it over two generations, you'd save money (taking the cooling block and mounting rack into consideration).

That's true, in a way.
But personally I don't look at it that way

Some chips just don't overclock. Period.

I'd be more into buying a X2 4800+ and overclocking it to <insert next-gen CPU name here> speeeds!!!

unklerosco

Most chips at the end of the speed line r usually pushed to the limit as it is... Unless ur heading into phase changing cooling etc. By overclocking my 2.8p4c to 3.6 i was saving a good wad of cash.. True the watercooling kit cost about the same as what i saved but i had a faster cpu n silence which is the main reason i use watercooling... A decent HSF can give u temps as good as low to mid end WC kits but u gotta put up with the noise..

Prosta

The waterblocks are from http://www.geminicool.com/

I couldnt find a pic of your mobo Khannie but see attached for the heatsink mounting holes I was on about.

Khannie

Thanks prosta. I'll check that out when I get home this evening. If they're there, then I'd be delighted to take that stuff off you, though I will give you at least /something/ for it

Prosta

No update from Khannie.

I've mislaid the radiator but the rest is there.
Will do a proper search for it tonight and put all in the car. Unklerosco let me know.

unklerosco

pm sent

po0k

Just in reference to "noise", do you not have to use fans to cool the rads (obviously dependent on the mounting configuration), and won't the pump make noise? If you know of a high-pressure, totally silent (pump noise <10dBA) WC pump, let me know.

Also, just as an aside, with a bit of patience and some planning, it should be simple to rig the power so that you only need one kettle lead to the PSU, you feed the WC pump off the same 3-pin socket on the PSU, but rig the momentary switch/insert in series a relay to do a time-delay on boot-up so the WC pump starts up a second or two before your machine boots.

Prosta

You need a fan on the radiator unless your going to use a passive system which is either a big tower thing that sits on your desk and is not portable or a panel radiator about 20" square clamped to the outside.

The pump startup is not that critical. The block itself and the water in it will give you a couple of minutes protection at least.

The pump above only produces a murmer. Its much lower noise then a regular fan and rated at 300 lt/hr

I'm now using a Danger den 12v pump and it makes a racket unless connected to a speed controller but even at lowest speed I'm usually < 30c

WizZard

SyxPak wrote:

Just in reference to "noise", do you not have to use fans to cool the rads (obviously dependent on the mounting configuration), and won't the pump make noise? If you know of a high-pressure, totally silent (pump noise <10dBA) WC pump, let me know.

Yes, fans are required; but get good, quiet 120mm fans and they shouldn't make too much noise. A proper shroud for the rad will also reduce noise.
Pump:
DD 12v CSP-MAG (new - I want one/two )

SyxPak wrote:

Also, just as an aside, with a bit of patience and some planning, it should be simple to rig the power so that you only need one kettle lead to the PSU, you feed the WC pump off the same 3-pin socket on the PSU, but rig the momentary switch/insert in series a relay to do a time-delay on boot-up so the WC pump starts up a second or two before your machine boots.

Only needed if the pump is AC powered. DC Pumps use molex connectors for power.