bad read or good lay down?

kinaldo

battling away for position on the final table €25 Fitz game

pocket tens so I make a decent raise limper folds but massive chip leader Bob calls, last person I wanna get tangled with

flop comes 3 diamonds and a 10 giving me top set but no diamonds

Bob moves all in and I sheepishly fold, retaining my 3rd/4th chip position

bare in mind I'm still sensitive about seeing 3 to the flush after an almost identical scenario knocked me out of The Merrion WSOP satellite on Tuesday only 2 hands in

was later told he called a 50k all in after I was gone with K 6 and hit...and went on to win

bohsman

Its a very tough call, chances are he has at least one diamond but doubt he had two, the way he was playing every time he hit even a pair he just picked up a pile of chips and bet them

kinaldo

i felt i was due a good fold after making a lot of bad calls lately

well done on finishing 3rd btw, that should've been me, damn diamonds!

NickyOD

I don't even know the player but unless I am in a comfortable chip position already I would probably burn a hole in the felt getting my chips in there.

Dr_Colossus

Given that you haven't given the details behind the hand (position of players, amount of blinds, amount of raise, chip stack sizes of all remaining players) it's hard to comment but generally I think this is an easy call. Given that pot odds are unknown and you risk elimination one can only comment on the hand as it stands. What did you put him on that you folded top set?
Even against the made flush which is highly unlikely you are still over 33% to win the hand. Against the likely holdings of AdKx - AdJx, AdAx - JdJx you are over a 66% favourite to win. This only factors in strong holdings that are likely to call a raise and then bet out on a flushed flop, you also have to consider to likelyhood of him betting something like JcJh and other similar holdings.
One question. If he were to check into you what was your course of action going to be?

bmc

Against the likely holdings of AdKx - AdJx, AdAx - JdJx

Hee hee...

He doesn't know Bob, does he!?

Position in this question is (almost) irrelevant and the likely range of holdings is approximately AA - 72o.

NickyOD

bmc wrote:

Hee hee...

He doesn't know Bob, does he!?

Position in this question is (almost) irrelevant and the likely range of holdings is approximately AA - 72o.

That makes an even bigger case for an easy call.

kinaldo

Dr_Colossus wrote:

Given that you haven't given the details behind the hand (position of players, amount of blinds, amount of raise, chip stack sizes of all remaining players) it's hard to comment but generally I think this is an easy call. Given that pot odds are unknown and you risk elimination one can only comment on the hand as it stands. What did you put him on that you folded top set?
Even against the made flush which is highly unlikely you are still over 33% to win the hand. Against the likely holdings of AdKx - AdJx, AdAx - JdJx you are over a 66% favourite to win. This only factors in strong holdings that are likely to call a raise and then bet out on a flushed flop, you also have to consider to likelyhood of him betting something like JcJh and other similar holdings.
One question. If he were to check into you what was your course of action going to be?

early days i think there were still 8 players maybe 7, blinds were either 800/1500 or 1000/2000 can't quite remember, i'm on the button he's small blind, i have about 26k, probably 3rd in chips but not by much, he has at least 150k and there are a couple a short stacks remaining. I made it 6k to go which got Alex to fold but Bob can afford to call any raise by anyone with any decent hand so I put him on any suited connector, diamonds in this case, or possibly something like KJ with at least one diamond which is almost enough to scare me away after the amount of flush draw beats I've taken recently.

having seen some of his plays afterwards I obviously now regret folding, but at the time it still left me with enough chips to compete for 2nd or 3rd although I ended up a disappointing 6th

Lafortezza

Easy call I'd say, villains all-in probably means Ad plus maybe a pair or a gutshot or something. Even if he has the made flush you've got outs to the house.

TacT

I'd have pushed, prayed he didn't have the flush made or that you hit your boat without hesitation.

kinaldo

Dr_Colossus wrote:

One question. If he were to check into you what was your course of action going to be?

if he checks i bet, i'd never give someone a free card with a flush draw out there, even though he's most likely to call anyway if he had just the one diamond

bmc

NickyOD wrote:

That makes an even bigger case for an easy call.

IMO - yes.

However, I will be the first to admit that Bob and his crazy raising has pushed me off hands that were stronger than his own too.

And - as Kinaldo points out, folding did leave him a sufficient stack to play on.

NickyOD

bmc wrote:

And - as Kinaldo points out, folding did leave him a sufficient stack to play on.

for sixth?

kinaldo

NickyOD wrote:

for sixth?

i was tilted

ollyk1

This was a limp up the money or win the thing moment.

I'm suprised you didn't bite Bob's hand off Kinaldo you'd not been afraid to get your gamble on earlier in the game and push your 60/40 edges why change at the final table? For a few measly euro more??

As for bmc making weak folds to Bob the intimidator, or Dev making deals for a couple of hundred after losing the heart for the fight - whats new there??

All that death or glory talk was very inspiring yesterday Dev until you went and took the deal that is.....

kinaldo

ollyk1 wrote:

This was a limp up the money or win the thing moment.

I'm suprised you didn't bite Bob's hand off Kinaldo you'd not been afraid to get your gamble on earlier in the game and push your 60/40 edges why change at the final table? For a few measly euro more??

As for bmc making weak folds to Bob the intimidator, or Dev making deals for a couple of hundred after losing the heart for the fight - whats new there??

All that death or golory talk was very inspiring yesterday Dev until you went and took the deal that is.....

you're right, it was a limp up the money fold and i'm kinda disappointed in myself for that. All my recent bad beat flush draws affected my decision making.

Hectorjelly

Really, Really bad fold - the chances are you were ahead and even if you were up against a made flush (which there is almost no reason to think anyway) you probably have odds to boat up.

Juan Pablo

You gotta call if you are playing to win. you are up against Bob ffs! Chances are he has middle pair or bottom two, or maybe even 8 high, and could be drawing dead against you. But this is why Bob is a legend. Next time you are at his table, get him to tell you some of his Vegas stories. Priceless!

Samba

heh, read JP's Post