Did Knopfler rip off Gallagher or vice versa...

Neil3030 · 11-06-2005 4:19pm #1

I am referring to the following tracks:

Sultans of Swing - from the album "Dire Straits" (1978)
Shadow Play - from the album "Photo-Finish" (1978)

If you've any way of getting your hands on either of these albums or the tracks themselves, I sincerely suggest that you do because there are simply too many resemblances in these songs to chalk down as mere coincidence. I could name a list the length of my arm of the similarities in question but I will leave it for yourself to determine, as that is not my quest here.

The reason I post this thread is to find out if anyone has any information (that my googling has proven inept at uncovering) that could help to see who's song was written first?

If you include releases with Taste, Photo-Finish would have been well into the teens with regard Gallagher's LPs, and Dire Straits was the debut for Knopfler's group, so with that in mind it seems likely that Knopfler would have had a greater opportunity to hear Gallagher playing a "one from my up and coming release" in a gig or something. And Shadow Play just doesn't fit in with Gallagher's other stuff, so why would you take a chance with such a similar sounding track to another musician, when it was so different to your usual output, and therefore more easily noticeable?

It is truly remarkable to me, how there is absolutely no discussion on this on the internet, or anywhere else (that I have found). Does anyone have any info on this?

Gileadi · 12-06-2005 4:37pm

i dont think there close enough to think that one copied the other,probably just had very similar influences

just from a rough listen they seem to be in more or less the same key which would no doubt make them sound more alike

Ozzy · 12-06-2005 6:32pm

That's a great tune, Sultans Of Swing.
As for the other one, I'll have to go now and... uh... purchase the track in HMV for a listen, never heard it before.

Ozzy · 12-06-2005 6:40pm

Christ, that was some walk..

WTF!? It doesn't even sound the same!

Neil3030 · 12-06-2005 6:41pm

It's more than the same key Gileadi, I mean when he sings "Shadow Play" It's the exact melody of the famous "ba-da-da-da" riff in sultans. The rhythm is also identical, you can play the tracks over each other and they'd fit like a glove. Certain patterns in the solos are also extremely alike and the way he goes to a bridge during the "sounds come crashin, and I hear laughin.." bit, is the exact progression Sultans takes when it goes to "a band is blowing dixie...". Plus you've the whole "say a few words" - widdle widdle - "say a few words" - widdle widdle" as in Sultans.

To name but a few similarities!

Humpty D · 12-06-2005 9:11pm

Those songs aren't similar enough to consider either a rip-off - maybe just to the untrained ear, so you're excused....

Mr. CooL ICE · 13-06-2005 9:31am

I reckon Children Of Bodom were heavily inspired by Slave To The Grind by Skid Row with Bodom Beach Terror, and i reckon Arch Enemy's intro to Shadows And Dust is a copy of megadeths A Secret Place, but these 'co-incidences' happen!

Neil3030 · 13-06-2005 7:16pm

Humpty D wrote:

Those songs aren't similar enough to consider either a rip-off - maybe just to the untrained ear, so you're excused....

So you are as ignorant as you are condescending. Is that what you are saying? Why don't you disprove the striking similarities that I mentioned above, oh trained one...

redfender_man · 14-06-2005 9:23am

I don't think they are that similar apart from same key and some of the same chords ..way to go before you have a match I think. However there were more similar blues, country blues, rockabilly sounding bands on the 70's pub circuit at the time Dire Straits and earlier Knopfler was playing. They were all influencing each other and going back and back to old rock and roll and Rythm and Blues.. same as Rory. I heard one band called the Mosquitoes which had that whole DS sound exactly , but one thing missing ... Knopfler. I think JJ Cale and Gene Pitney (yes he of 24 hrs from Tulsa ..listen to the chord sequences) was more of a direct influence.

Having said that the similarities you mention .. sing a few lines play a few lines .. are just a continuation of the blues style, listen to BB King Live At the Regal , Albert King, most of the blues guys do that.

fyi - Sultans of Swing was demo'd in the summer of 1977 it was written in 1976.

MikeOConnor · 01-02-2018 8:57am

I just noticed the similarities this week also and googled my way here. I hadnt listened to RoryG much before. Rhythms and progressions match at times. Both songs were released in 1978.

devildriver · 02-02-2018 5:53pm

Wow. A 13 year old thread resurrected, that must be some sort of record!

Never noticed the similarities between those two songs before - don;lt think they're close enough to call plagiarism though.

Anyway seems like a good excuse to post one of my favourite live videos of all time!

Watch the whole thing and then pick your jaw off the floor! Epic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go9J9REtfdA

sixxjr · 18-02-2023 1:11am

Made an account to reply here. I had the same thought independently, so you’re not alone man.

Flinty997 · 18-02-2023 2:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/106018414#Comment_106018414

Sultans was recorded in '77 as demo got airplay that year on BBC. It was re-recorded for their debut album in 78. Shadow Play was first recorded in the studio in 1978.

They both have classic strat sounds, sultans is more country rock and shadow play more blues rock.

NewbridgeIR · 19-02-2023 12:48pm

The single mix of Sultans Of Swing is way better than the album version. Shame it's been forgotten nowadays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4zjKd9Y35k

RayCon · 20-02-2023 8:54am

It's kind of like there's a slight similarity between the opening riff / strumming pattern of Rory's "Moonchild" and Iron Maiden's "2 Minutes to Midnight" ... they would remind you of each other but they're clearly different and not a rip off.