[Article]Portmarnock Golf club wins discrimination case

Orion

Posting this here because it's not really a golf story - but a right to associate or discrimination thread depending on your pov.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2005/0610/breaking37.htm

Irish Times wrote:

Portmarnock Golf Club has won a High Court declaration that it is not a "discriminating" club under the Equal Status Act 2000 and can
continue to prevent women from becoming full members.

The ruling overturned a decision in May 2004 by District Court Judge Mary Lynch that suspended the club's drinks licence for seven days after finding its rule excluding women as members was discriminatory.

However, the suspension had not been imposed to date and was in abeyance pending the outcome of the High Court action.

The club said it was "very pleased" with the outcome and said it was happy that the club's views had been "vindicated."

The club claimed that since its establishment in 1894, and under its rules, it has consisted of members and associates who are "gentlemen properly elected" and conforms with the rules of amateur status. There are currently 626 members and 625 associate members.

The golf club argued that the District Court decision restricted its members right to freedom of association.

Both the Equality Authority and the State opposed the club's proceedings.

Personally I think this is great news. While I don't condone discrimination in services or employment I don't see anything wrong with men having a private club for men. As it is there are only two left - Portmarnock and Royal Dublin. I think the case is simply the EA getting its knickers in a twist over something that it should really have kept out of. I have a lot of respect for the EA but this time they got it completely wrong imo.

Before anyone says it - women are not forbidden from playing there - in fact the green fee for women is only a nominal one. They just can't join the club.

mike65

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=142731&highlight=Portmarnock+Golf+Club

I don't think this is too clever if they recieve public funds or have a licence to sell alcohol. If they are a truly self-funded body then fine they can make there own rules, otherwise....

Mike.

Imposter

mike65 wrote:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=142731&highlight=Portmarnock+Golf+Club

I don't think this is too clever if they recieve public funds or have a licence to sell alcohol. If they are a truly self-funded body then fine they can make there own rules, otherwise....

Mike.

Would it not be some sort of members only licence to serve alcohol and if not couldn't it be argued, by the same logic, that any pub that doesn't serve 18 year olds, should not have a licence?

Orion

They have a club license - which means that only members and members' guests can purchase alchohol. Just the same as any club.

Quantum

I dearly hope that the government takes this to the supreme court and win. If they don't win they should find any reason to take away any government licenses that this group of sad mysoginist middle aged and older farts have in their 'club'..and also look at any other local laws that could be used to leverage them.

Orion

What exactly is your problem with it Quantum? It's a men's golf club. Formed by men for men. Why exactly do women want to join? If they want to play golf so badly let them form a women's club. There are a few women only clubs in the UK - do you have a problem with them as well?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

womens only nights in the swimming pool?!

that's just not on.

nesf

It's a private club...

They can discriminate however way they want, I don't care. It's not like I'm forced to play golf there or anything tbh.

bonzai bob

Discrimination my arse!

Sleepy

Glad to see it tbh. If it's legal to have women's only fitness clubs, I don't see the problem with a men's only golf club.

Amazotheamazing

Why Quantum? I can't see why men and women can't have separate clubs, I wouldn't want to join the private womens board on boards.ie but I don't feel discriminated because I can't. Unless you believe it's ok for women to private clubs but not men?

Velvet Vocals

Well as a woman, I don't feel discriminated against in the slightest. Of couse men should be allowed to have their own club. The very same rule applies to women, they are entitled to have their own clubs and restrict entry to men.
We have girls nights out, girls nights in, women only gyms, Women's mini marathons, women's only nights in swimming pools, "Chick flicks"...

There is distinction between genders, because we ARE different! and there is nothing wrong with enjoying the company of just girls or just boys.
The only time discrimination comes into it is if people of different creeds, race or sexual preference etc are excluded. I would be much more concerned with the Edmondstown Golf Clubs policy of not allowing Jews to become members.

As we are on the subject of discrimation here I will put this to you....
I recently went to a "gay" night in a well know Dublin night club and was turned away on the basis that it was "gays only" Now surely if that happened to a homosexual person this would be a huge deal, if they were told "no gays tonight, straights only"
Firstly, I'd like to know how the bouncer could just assume that I was straight and secondly, surely we shouldn't exclude anyone based on sexual preference?

The Corinthian

As I’ve recounted here in the past, I remember a debate on this issue run by the UCD Women’s Group in the early nineties. What struck me was that the debate was followed by a women’s only reception, which I thought was remarkably hypocritical.

Ultimately it has become very difficult to argue against such organisations, as there are a plethora of similar women only clubs also in existence. Were you to ban men’s golf clubs, you would have to ban women’s fitness clubs too, for example. As such, it’s hardly surprising that the ruling went the way it did if all that was presented against such clubs was the usual rant about “sad misogynist middle aged and older farts”.

What people are forgetting is that the problem such clubs can cause are not about simple gender discrimination, but about the corruption they may engender. If a club gives one group in society an unfair advantage over another, then its membership is truly prejudicial. Otherwise it’s simply a question of one’s right of association - and last time I looked; this was actually enshrined in the Constitution.

Orion

Saint Something wrote:

I would be much more concerned with the Edmondstown Golf Clubs policy of not allowing Jews to become members.

I think you have that backwards - Edmonstown was founded as a Jewish club iirc. But there is no rule against other faiths from joining. There could have been in the past but I personally know 2 Catholics who are members there now. The (sadly defunct) Carlisle sports club in Kimmage was the same - predominantly Jewish but no bar to membership.

Velvet Vocals

Maybe I have the club name wrong, but I was listening to Geroge Hook on Newstalk last week and he spoke about a club that wouldn't allow Jew's to become members and I thought it was Edmonstown that he said but I could have been wrong???

Orion

I'd say it's more likely that Hook got it wrong. He sometimes makes an issue of things that aren't issues.