Old fireplace removal & fitting of wood stove

CuppaCocoa

Hi,

I live in the Dublin 8 area. I have gas central heating but want to get a multi fuel/wood stove fitted in my back room. I have a small existing open tiled fireplace which needs to be removed. I want a new brick fireplace built with either an oak beam or a mantle and a small stove fitted. It won't be for primary heat it will just be as a backup in case the heating breaks down (as it did recently).

I got a quote from a reputable fireplace co. The stove itself costs 1,300 (Stovax - Huntington 28) and the work to be done was priced at 5,660 (including stove). I thought this was far too high. I could probably take out the fireplace myself it's so small! Would anyone know of a reputable person/company that wouldn't charge so much? I have been on to a few but have gotten nowhere.

kadman

Did you get a break down on the additional costs. It may be that the existing flue, may be in poor repair, and may need new flue liners. Installing new liners is a labour intensive task

Modern day stoves have a higher heat out put, and would heat the existing flue far more than an open fire. The flue in its current condition, may not be up to the job.

Try and find out where the extra 4300e is going

kadman

rooferPete

Hi,

I take it you want the stove inset into the fireplace ?

That could mean a lot of finishing work to the back, sides and hearth, also as Kadman pointed your chimney may need to re-lined especially if your house is brick.

I take it the price includes vat at 13.5% does the stove include vat at 21% ?

A kinda borderline case needs to be viewed to see if the price can be improved on.

.

gregos

Come on guys! It's the Dublin phenomenon we've been talking about.

Lily, send me a PM.

kadman

gregos wrote:

Come on guys! It's the Dublin phenomenon we've been talking about.

Lily, send me a PM.

I assume you mean the high quotes given by builders, Gregos. If I am correct in my assumption, how can you generalise when you dont know the full scope of works. It would be helpful maybe to see a breakdown of costs.

If the flue liners have to be replaced , or inserted, this is a major undertaking, and labour intensive.
If its in a two storey building, then its twice the headache. :eek:

Inserting flue liners , has a major impact throughout the length of the job , due to the disruption throughout the building. When its all said and done, it does not become apparent that any work was done at all, as all is concealed.

The chimmney breast has to be opened probably every 3 -4 feet, liners inserted and bedded, insulated around the liners with the proper material and sealed. Move on another few feet. It cant all be done at once, like opening up the front of the chimmney.

This process works its way up the stack. The last few have to be inserted through the top of the chimmney. This requires removing the capping, inserting and bedding the last few, re lining around the flues, and refitting a new capping, and making good. This can be done externally, if the chimmney is on an external wall. Same amount of work though.

If this is the scope of works, then any builder who is doing all this for 4000 on top of the stove price , is doing it too cheap.

Maybe your remark refers to something else besides the rip off issue, if so please elaborate. If I've missed the plot on this one Gregos, please feel free to correct me.

CuppaCocoa

OK, here is the exact breakdown of the quote I received:

"To enlarge fireplace opening complete with removal of existing fireplace stovepipe connections to existing flue, register plate, reclaimed brick facing slips to fire opening, reclaimed bricks to chimney breast, oak beam mantle shelf, materials, riven slate-brick hearth and air vent to room".

No mention of re-lining the flue.

kadman

lilybarlean wrote:

OK, here is the exact breakdown of the quote I received:

"To enlarge fireplace opening complete with removal of existing fireplace stovepipe connections to existing flue, register plate, reclaimed brick facing slips to fire opening, reclaimed bricks to chimney breast, oak beam mantle shelf, materials, riven slate-brick hearth and air vent to room".

No mention of re-lining the flue.

It seems Gregos is right, It does seem a TAD expensive...... :eek: :eek: :eek:

Send him on his merry way, and get a new quote.

kadman

CuppaCocoa

That's the problem - I can't get anyone to give me a quote! Tried 3 other people and they promised to get back to me but I'm still waiting. It's not a huge job but maybe they think it's not worth it? Anyone know of any reputable person who would be willing to do the work?

rooferPete

Hi lily....

I think you have answered your question describing the existing fireplace, it is small and may need a head fitted to allow it to be enlarged.

Being brick it may be that it has an arched finish, it was not unusual to have stoves fitted in the older houses only to be removed and the ope built up.

There are a lot questions that can only be answered by looking at the job, also the work can be very dirty so be careful about who is doing the job.

It has been known for the flue liners to collapse when work starts on the ope especially if the chimney was corbelled.

.

gregos

I'm inclined to think everyone is a little bit right about this. All of Pete's advice is sound, particularly about the flue liners, if a builder doesn't know what he's doing. However, I really do think that many builders reckon this gravy train isn't going to last forever and they're going to ride it while they can. Not an unreasonable point of view in some ways. Likewise, most of us have access to more money than ever before, and in the new Ireland, everybody wants it done right now. This is a disastrous combination, in my opinion, which is pushing prices up and standards down.

CuppaCocoa

The quote came from a reputable fireplace co. I didn't expect it to be so dear for the amount of work to be done. There was originally a range in place so the space is there. I thought it was just a question of putting a pipe up the chimney and connecting it to the stove. Hardly rocket science! The rest of the work is purely cosmetic - half bricking the wall and constructing a hearth from brick. I could probably take out the original fireplace myself it's so small.

MissRibena

This post is putting the fear of god in me too as I'm hoping to put a solid fuel stove in as part of a new dual solid fuel/oil central heating system.

Is it much less work if you don't put the stove into the fireplace and just have it standing on the hearth with a pipe going up the chimney? Or is this equally naive?

Thanks
Rebecca

rooferPete

Hi lilly....

I am not trying to defend another persons pricing, Lord knows I have enough trouble defending my own some times.

What can happen on what is a fairly small job like yours is the contractor must allow for all the unforseeable events that can crop up.

It is not unknown for builders to use 4" solid blocks on flat each side when building up where old stoves were removed, removing those blocks could create problems on there own.

When they didn't use the blocks on flat there is a question mark as to what they used to backfill the space on either side.

I am a bit surprised that a liner was not specified even though your chimney is already lined it very old and may be cracked, when upgrading the whole chimney should be done to prevent future problems.

As to taking out the old fireplace they usually almost fall out when the fixing poiints are exposed, it's after that the real work starts.

The only problem with fitting the stove outside the fire ope is the existing ope must be built up with the flue filled to the point where the new flue enters the chimney breast and a cleaning hatch installed.

You can lose floor space using this method as the hearth must be widened to conform to both building regs and safety.

.