Provisional Amnesty?

Nuttzz

With the waiting lists over a year for driving tests, what do people think about a provisional anmesty?

Personally I think there should be an amnesty for any provisional drivers who have amassed a full NCB, to be honest you have to have 4-5 years clean driving experience to build one up. A test is a snapshot of a persons driving ability, 4-5 years NCB shows their ability over a long peroid of time

I wouldnt be in favour otherwise

Opinions?

alias no.9

No way, no how. Anybody who has been driving for 5 years will most likely have failed their test at least once and if they haven't sat a test at all it means they just weren't bothered applying. Either way this behaviour should not be rewarded with a 'free' license. In fact, they need to start periodical retesting of fully licensed drivers if anything. Resources need to be put into clearing the backlog and when the backlog is cleared, these resources can be redeployed to the retesting of fully licensed drivers.

the evil belly

alias no.9 wrote:

No way, no how. Anybody who has been driving for 5 years will most likely have failed their test at least once and if they haven't sat a test at all it means they just weren't bothered applying. Either way this behaviour should not be rewarded with a 'free' license. In fact, they need to start periodical retesting of fully licensed drivers if anything. Resources need to be put into clearing the backlog and when the backlog is cleared, these resources can be redeployed to the retesting of fully licensed drivers.

agreed, we should all be retested every few years

prospect

I think when you receive your provisional licence, you should also receive a test appointment for twelve months from date of issue.
If you pass, great. If you fail, another test should be booked immediatly for 12 months later again.
If you pass, great. If you fail, you should have your licence removed and then attend state run sepcialised driver training until you are deemed by your instructor to be fit to drive on the roads and pass a test.

css

Supposedly it was proposed by the government a few years ago, but blocked by the EU It's an EU driving licence people have now, not just an Irish one...

I think it's good it was blocked. Our roads are still suffering from the muppets who got freebies from the last 'amnesty'.. :mad:

Alun

css wrote:

Supposedly it was proposed by the government a few years ago, but blocked by the EU It's an EU driving licence people have now, not just an Irish one...

I think it's good it was blocked. Our roads are still suffering from the muppets who got freebies from the last 'amnesty'.. :mad:

I'm surprised the EU haven't stepped in and demanded the repeal of this stupid "2nd privisional" nonsense as well.

Eoin

The re-testing is a good idea in theory, but I think there are the following problems:

1) You have to drive like an absolute pleb in your test

2) The current test has far too many shortcomings that need to be addressed before re-testing is looked at - for example, the following topics should be covered in the test: night time driving, parking, motorway driving, driving in bad conditions.

Ideally, I would like to see the test done in phases - e.g. a learner driver must attend a licensed school and pass a series of tests, which culminates in a final test, rather than the current situtation of one 30 minute test.

So, a learner driver must attend X amount of lessons at a licensed school and sit an initial test to prove that they are OK behind the wheel. They would then be able to drive as a provisional license holder currently can. They must then pass a further tests covering motorway driving etc.

Without wanting to sound like an age nazi, re-testing should first be brought into people over a certain age (65 maybe).

Nuttzz

eoin_s wrote:

Without wanting to sound like an age nazi, re-testing should first be brought into people over a certain age (65 maybe).

something like that would fail at the first hurdle, see the equal status act

Retesting is pie in the sky at the moment, we cant clear the back log of learner ffs

we cant put extra resources into driver testing as the union that the tester are members of have blocked all such moves and would strike, adding to the back log.

we cant privatise the service, if we do so a private company would gain from failing students

I think that driving and road safety should be made manditory at secondary school and all students should have to sit their driving test as part of the leaving cert. this could be done by removing some non essential subjects like religion or irish

I think someone with a full NCB has shown they can drive over a period of time unlike the test which is at present just a snapshot of someones driving ability.

Merrion

There should be an EU wide test regime and if your particluar country's drivng test schedule is backed up due to brown-denim wearing Trotskyite instructors then you should be able to fly over to Wales for the weekend and get your test there.
Or Spain, if you are very brave and fancy a bit of a holiday at the same time.

Eoin

Nuttzz wrote:

we cant put extra resources into driver testing as the union that the tester are members of have blocked all such moves and would strike, adding to the back log.

Is this not exactly what is going to happen shortly?

alias no.9

Nuttzz wrote:

I think someone with a full NCB has shown they can drive over a period of time unlike the test which is at present just a snapshot of someones driving ability.

How do you address the fact that somebody with a provisional license and full NCB has either demonstrated incompetance by failing the test or just never been arsed to sit the test?

Also, people save their NCB by resolving damages outside of insurance policies, for gods sake it's even possible to write off a car with no third party involved, hence no possibility of a claim on a TP or TPF&T policy.

The current test is not difficult. If you can't pass it, you shouldn't be on the road. Having said that I do have some sympathy for people on the waiting lists but not for anyone driving on a provisional for 5 years.

Eoin

alias no.9 wrote:

The current test is not difficult. If you can't pass it, you shouldn't be on the road. Having said that I do have some sympathy for people on the waiting lists but not for anyone driving on a provisional for 5 years.

It is not difficult in that there is no particularly hard manoeuvring, but it is still a very stressful test - I have never been so nervous in an exam before.

<edit>

but not for anyone driving on a provisional for 5 years.

Totally agree with that - no excuse at all.
</edit>

alias no.9

eoin_s wrote:

It is not difficult in that there is no particularly hard manoeuvring, but it is still a very stressful test - I have never been so nervous in an exam before.

Many driving situations are extremely stressful, you need to be able to drive in stressful situations and thats probably the most important part of the test.

saobh_ie

I would be apposed to an amnesty; I’ve been waiting eight months for a test, which is on this Friday, which for reasons beyond my control I’m probably going to fail, the last time I was out on a motorcycle I ended up under the wheels of a deaf and dumb, blind driver who probably got her licence in the last amnesty entitling her to drive motorcycles, cars, bus’s, jumbo jets and interstellar rocket ships.

(Not really bothered though. So I won’t be allowed on the motorway or carry a pillion. Wasn’t planning on doing either. Although I am concerned that I might need a full licence before I can even start training for my Rospa and IAM thingies. Money isn’t an issue, I’ve already had the loading removed from my insurance and gotten a substantial discount off my premium, full licence won’t reduce it any further.)

A NCB isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on to anybody but the insurance company, its only an incentive to you to sort out any trouble you get into yourself reducing their workload and costs.

Somebody mentioned retesting, I complelty agree. In an ideal world new drivers would be tested twice in their first years driving and then everybody would be tested every five or maybe ten years. There would also be an element of compulsory training, and everyone would be encouraged to continue they’re training to get advanced driving/riding diplomas.

eoin_s wrote:

1) You have to drive like an absolute pleb in your test

‘scuse me? So only plebs drive within the speed limit and in accordance with the rules of the road while making proper signals and observations in good time? I’ve probably grabbed the wrong end of the stick here and you said that in jest. I hopes lol.

eoin_s wrote:

2) The current test has far too many shortcomings that need to be addressed before re-testing is looked at - for example, the following topics should be covered in the test: night time driving, parking, motorway driving, driving in bad conditions.

Shortcomings, they’re downright inexcusable failures. I agree with you 100%. The test does lack a degree of realism from what I’ve heard. As for testing people above the age of 65 again I’m all for that if some form of retesting can’t be brought in for everyone. To get around the equal status act we could say everyone’s getting tested starting with the people who got their licences first (old people =D ).

Some sort of Driver’s Ed like the American model in secondary schools would be a great idea. Not only would there be something else to look forward to for school kids but all those boy racers would get some actual skills, or skillz, before they took their lowered, body-kitted, straight through exhaust fitted Fiat micro-box’s onto the road.

A united Europe (regards driving) would be great but way to difficult the way things are at the moment. We need something like the common defence policy (except this one will work) where each member state contributes x to the running of the thing and then it would work across the borders but as it is, the Welsh government doesn’t want to be paying to test non-nationals (us) and the country’s with crap testing agencies would oppose it because they would know they’d get shown up and put out of business.

Hotblack Desiato

alias no.9 wrote:

Also, people save their NCB by resolving damages outside of insurance policies

Or by doing a hit and run...

Silvera

NO WAY!

I'd say a good proportion of the stupid drivers on our roads are those who got their full licences under previous amnesties!

Not that the driving test is a great way of improving drivers - but it's better than nothing.

Lack of 'Hazard Perception' is the biggest problem on our roads.

besty

prospect wrote:

I think when you receive your provisional licence, you should also receive a test appointment for twelve months from date of issue.
If you pass, great. If you fail, another test should be booked immediatly for 12 months later again.
If you pass, great. If you fail, you should have your licence removed and then attend state run sepcialised driver training until you are deemed by your instructor to be fit to drive on the roads and pass a test.

thats a good idea.

Victor

Nuttzz wrote:

With the waiting lists over a year for driving tests, what do people think about a provisional anmesty?

How about no amnesty and I give you both my testicles? \/\/0r5t 1d34 3\/4r.

Just employ a rake of testers, pay them a little more and when the backlog is cleared, let them clea rthe backlog from the last amnesty and then test everyone periodicly.

To get rid of people from the last amnesty holding things like bus and truck licences, just charge an increased fee on say a 3-year testing cycle.

Silvera

Victor wrote:

To get rid of people from the last amnesty holding things like bus and truck licences, just charge an increased fee on say a 3-year testing cycle.

Don't agree.

I did all my driving tests 'fair and square' and don't see why I should have to do a re-test in order to keep my Truck Licence.

Capt'n Midnight

Nuttzz wrote:

With the waiting lists over a year for driving tests, what do people think about a provisional anmesty?

Personally I think there should be an amnesty for any provisional drivers who have amassed a full NCB, to be honest you have to have 4-5 years clean driving experience to build one up. A test is a snapshot of a persons driving ability, 4-5 years NCB shows their ability over a long peroid of time

I wouldnt be in favour otherwise

Opinions?

No way Jack - they did that in 1979 thankfully EU regulations won't allow it now.

Examples
My dad has 30 years NCB. He has drive ONCE in all that time, in a car park, 100 meters tops.

If a person hasn't had an accident - might just mean they have low milage. Many Dublin drivers have an average speed of less than 10 mph at rush hour and first time drivers usually have older cars that are worth less than the premium. Or rural drivers on the Berra Peninsula might only pass three other cars a day. MOST people have NCB's so it doesn't prove you are special.

Many people loose NCB's because someone hit THEM so loosing it doesn't mean necessarily mean you are a worse driver.

I'll say it again 1979 - that's one and half times the age of the youngest drivers on the waiting list.

ANY suggestion that diverts attention from the lack of driver testing, is a complete waste of time. Also our tests should be more like other countries where it is over a few days and includes higher speed areas and night driving as well. Our system is the status quo where three people die on our roads every year per driving tester, and 90% of those fatalities are attributal to road user behaviour. I'm not saying that over the course of their career that an infallible driving tester could save 100 lives, but you just have to wonder...

Nuttzz

Victor wrote:

\/\/0r5t 1d34 3\/4r.

Examples
My dad has 30 years NCB. He has drive ONCE in all that time

no he doesnt, no one has a 30 year ncb, the most you could have would be 4-5 depending on your insurance policy

Many people loose NCB's because someone hit THEM so loosing it doesn't mean necessarily mean you are a worse driver.

if i hit you and i am in the wrong how exactly do you lose your ncb?

How do you address the fact that somebody with a provisional license and full NCB has either demonstrated incompetance by failing the test or just never been arsed to sit the test?

one year waiting lists dont give poeple the incentive to apply either.

not that it bothers me, i'm gald its rule out under EU law but something needs to be done about it

alias no.9

Nuttzz wrote:

one year waiting lists dont give poeple the incentive to apply either

Everybody is fully aware of that waiting lists are ~1 year, surely that is the incentive to apply as early as possible. Another incentive is insurance, you're getting an approximate reduction of 25% for having passed your test. The only special treatment someone deserves for being on the road long enough to build up a full NCB on a provisional license is to be put off the road (except when they're under expert tuition) until they pass their test, there is no excuse for this kind of behaviour, it does not result from waiting lists for driving tests.

Victor

Nuttzz wrote:

if i hit you and i am in the wrong how exactly do you lose your ncb?

If "you" have no insurance or can't be traced.

NCBs are exactly what it says on the packet, if you claim, you loose the bonus (some circumstances / policies aside).

Nuttzz

Victor wrote:

If "you" have no insurance or can't be traced.

thats what this lot are for.... http://www.mibi.ie/

Everybody is fully aware of that waiting lists are ~1 year, surely that is the incentive to apply as early as possible.

human nature is what it is and people just put things off

incentive is insurance, you're getting an approximate reduction of 25% for having passed your test.

i agree, i suppose if i suggested that because i got my licence in the uk i should get a greater reduction for doing a more difficult test than anyone who sat the test here, wouldnt be popular either

Capt'n Midnight

Nuttzz wrote:

no he doesnt, no one has a 30 year ncb, the most you could have would be 4-5 depending on your insurance policy

Point is I know someone with 30 years insurance history with no claims who doesn't drive. On that basis there is no way I can agree to anyone getting a license based on having an NCB.

And your insurance does go up if you are in a collision regardless of whose fault it is.

Have to agree with alias no. 9 that no one should be on the road without a test long enough to acquire an NCB.

Anyone hear about that Korean man who got his license after doing over 200 driving tests in the last 3 years ? (reading/writing problem)

Curran

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Anyone hear about that Korean man who got his license after doing over 200 driving tests in the last 3 years ?

Nope.........but chances are he'd probably pass his test first time here..... :mad:
Such is the farce that we call our DRIVING TEST!

There should be the "driving test" as we have it now.....which if you pass, allows you to drive on motorways.

And then you should be given a date on the day you pass that test....say for a year (or 6 months) down the line where you have to do a night time test and driving on a motorway also! AND You should be taken out of the busy towns where the tests are held....out onto the open road and prove you can overtake properly and safely and confidently! (i dont mean overtaking a cyclist during your test!)

And if you fail the 2nd test, you should be made resit the first one!

vector

the evil belly wrote:

agreed, we should all be retested every few years

10 years would be the likely, but even so I don't like the idea, it would start off at EUR 55 and increase every year, a real money spinner, plus it would be yet another regulation, folks do you want the govt to own you? to regulate everything? no

doubtless it will come in time... from europe

Capt'n Midnight

Curran wrote:

And if you fail the 2nd test, you should be made resit the first one!

I was told in Germany that if you fail three tests you have to see a psycologist. Here with a fail rate of 50% that would apply to 1 in 8 people !
In Italy AFAIK you can do a three week course with a recognised school and they can pass you or you can do a test, but most people do the course.

BTW: I love the way that most driving schools here claim 90% pass rates.

sceptre

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Examples
My dad has 30 years NCB. He has drive ONCE in all that time, in a car park, 100 meters tops.

Why has your dad held car insurance for thirty years if he's only driven once?
(none of my business but that's one of the oddest things I've heard in a long time so I'm a curious George)


As for the main topic - no, dumb idea for the reasons stated by the people above.

Nuttzz

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Point is I know someone with 30 years insurance history with no claims who doesn't drive.

thats not a 30 year ncb though....

And your insurance does go up if you are in a collision regardless of whose fault it is.

a kerry farmer caused 6k of damage to my car 3 years ago, i never lost my ncb and my insurance has not gone up, it went down steadly since i arrived back in ireland.....

I was told in Germany that if you fail three tests you have to see a psycologist. Here with a fail rate of 50% that would apply to 1 in 8 people

the waiting time for the shrink would be as long as the test, LOL

prove you can overtake properly and safely and confidently! (i dont mean overtaking a cyclist during your test!)

knowing how to overtake cyclists is just as important if not more so, a cyclist has very little protection from a car

Lord Nikon

Curran wrote:

And if you fail the 2nd test, you should be made resit the first one!

This is confusing. If you do a second test, it's because you failed the first test, that's why second comes after first.

Picture the scene...John's on a Provisional, does his Driving Test but fails. He can walk out of the test centre, and drive away in his own car.

Picture another scene... Jimmy's has a Full Licence, and is (by some new law) asked to do another test to see if his driving is okay. He fails.

Is he allowed to drive off in his car?

Do they take is licence off him for failing another test?

How can you determin if someone has failed a retest if they are on a Full Licence.