Whoa Shins impressed with comreg shocker

shinzon

Ok so wasnt expecting anything from comreg as regards my e-mail i sent but hey I hold up my hand and say I was wrong

This morning i had an engineer out from Eircom, he did all the usual tests and found the line passed when one of the internally wired sockets was disconnected, just the one socket causing all this trouble anyhoo hes flagged the line up as a pass again, so im happy and hopefully case resolved once report goes through from him

couple of tidbits for you guys that you may not know that he let slip

1) He told me that all lines are automatically tested every 10 minutes on the dot, make of that what you will

2) In the last 2 weeks theyve upgraded there testing software, the tests are now upto 10mbps for signal strength

3) and he said the people running the tests are getting all sorts of error messages that they cant understand and throwing up all sorts of weird numbers etc etc

Well fingers crossed that when report goes through ill have nps and i can put all this behind me AGAIN

Thx to Damien for pushing me to send e-mail

Cheers M8

Shin

Sponge Bob

shinzon wrote:

Ok so wasnt expecting anything from comreg as regards my e-mail i sent but hey I hold up my hand and say I was wrong

More details pls Shin.

Had you mailed complaints@eircom and phil .

what did they say ?

how soon afterw that did you mail comreg (what email ?)

how soon after that again did the man show at Shin Central ?

shinzon wrote:

This morning i had an engineer out from Eircom, he did all the usual tests and found the line passed when one of the internally wired sockets was disconnected, just the one socket causing all this trouble anyhoo hes flagged the line up as a pass again, so im happy and hopefully case resolved once report goes through from him

FFS Shin you were supposed to have disconnected ALL your internal wiring LAST YEAR or possibly even in 2003 !!!!!!!!

Blaster99

If they send engineers out to fix internal wiring problems for free, that's pretty damned impressive.

Sponge Bob

If they send engineers at all its impressive.

If the engineer can show the internal wiring (or part) to be at fault while he is there , and disconnect that, then I would think that Eircom are entitled to bill him for €45 (standard charge IIRC ) as it is not their fault and they proved it .

shinzon

Right can someone tell me does anyone in eircom actually know what the **** they are doing

My mother got a call today about an hour ago back from eircom

1) The girl that rang up told us to disregard anything the Engineer said exact words "I wouldnt mind anything he said at all" Doesnt make a difference

2) We got static on the line it will take 10 days to investigate it, but well be in touch in the meantime

Im getting that sinking feeling again, this is the merry go round i was on the last time and it didnt turn out at all good.

I mean whats the point in sending round an engineer who passes the line, only to be told well it really doesnt make a damn bit of difference what he says, basically what he told you was a load of bollocks

Shin

byte

Jeez, a lot of hassle, though if there IS static on the line, best if it's gonna be sorted first.

Hope it works out for ya. As my local exchange isn't enabled yet, I've all this hassle probably ahead of me, especially as ISDN has to be removed etc too, which I'm told costs 130eur (though I'm not sure if my source is correct).

shinzon

ok

Eircom rang on thursday, they checked it out (yeah right) and there saying my lines Borderline (again yeah right 1 meg you put on my line no problem), so there not confident it will carry BB, there sending a letter apparently and putting a process through, again they said it may not pass

Im gone beyond caring, how can a telecommunications company say i cant have BB, when self same company gave it to me for 2 months with no problems


Shin

Blaster99

Have you asked them why that is?

jmcc

Would it be better to explore the NTL option Shin? This area should be upgraded for NTL cable broadband this month.

Regards...jmcc

Cabaal

jmcc wrote:

Would it be better to explore the NTL option Shin? This area should be upgraded for NTL cable broadband this month.

Regards...jmcc

I'd imagine he's going down that route anyway but it still leaves his question why Eircom can provide 1MB BB anfd then go and say he can't have any broadband once they remove their BB service from the line.

I've seen BT in the UK feck customers around but nothing like this,

shinzon

yeah i will be going the ntl route as soon as its available

As regards eircom, its the principle of the thing more than anything else, they gave me a 1 meg connection for 2 months with no problems, my line passed during this time and suddenly i return router and it goes back to a fail just like that


Highly suspicious in my book


Shin

SkepticOne

Eircom may well be up to dodgyness with regard to lines passing and then failing. Unfortunately, the end-user doesn't have any rights in the matter since Eircom are under no obligations in the first place to supply broadband to users.

The only people who may have some standing in the matter are the bitstream resellers. If Eircom are deliberately failing lines after someone cancels and Eircom subscription then the resellers might decide to persue this as it could be considered anti-competitive.

The main basis of the regulations, however, is that if Eircom supplies you with DSL, then they must also have a wholesale package in place that allows OAOs (other authorised operators) to resell to you. If your line fails (for whatever reason) then Eircom can argue that since they aren't supplying broadband currently on your line, they are under no obligation to upgrade the line so that bitstream can be resold.

The OAOs would therefore have to prove that Eircom are deliberately 'failing' the line for the specific purpose of preventing OAO access. I'm not sure how they would go about doing this and I'm not sure if the OAOs are particularly interested anyway.

That Eircom might be up to dodgyness is not particularly surprising but the issue is mainly between them and the resellers. As far as the end-user is concerned, the user's option is to take business away from Eircom in those areas (like Waterford) where there is choice. I believe the only reason that Eircom temporarily passed the line in the first place was to try and tie in customers in to contracts before NTL upgraded the area.

Sponge Bob

SkepticOne wrote:

The only people who may have some standing in the matter are the bitstream resellers. If Eircom are deliberately failing lines after someone cancels an Eircom <TRIAL> subscription then the resellers might decide to pursue this as it could be considered anti-competitive.
<snip>
The OAOs would therefore have to prove that Eircom are deliberately 'failing' the line for the specific purpose of preventing OAO access. I'm not sure how they would go about doing this and I'm not sure if the OAOs are particularly interested anyway.

Evidence on that very matter may already be in the hands of the Competition Authority . Bitstream is after all the best and simplest way to investigate the separation that allegedly exists between Retail and Wholesale within Eircom .

The other thorny issue concerns Bitstream Port Transfers with no loss of service ...or no major loss of service, say an hour or two.

Tom Young

Sponge Bob wrote:

Evidence on that very matter may already be in the hands of the Competition Authority . Bitstream is after all the best and simplest way to investigate the separation that allegedly exists between Retail and Wholesale within Eircom .

The other thorny issue concerns Bitstream Port Transfers with no loss of service ...or no major loss of service, say an hour or two.

Unlikely!

There is a cooperation agreement in place between ComReg and the The Competition Authority, all sectoral matters are deferred.

Please see: http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/comreg0306.pdf

This basically says all matters related to the communications regulatory environment, big or small divert. Some of you who read the Market Analysis findings / conslusions will see that the National Competition Authority rubber stamp, because they have to under law only.

Thus inactivity on price (squeeze) abuses by ComReg and Wholesale versus retail equivalence constantly cause issues. Levels of required competition review and analysis can be slow and in many cases really watery.

So sorry to rain on your parade, but have tried force this issue and ended up with sweet didley squat.

Tom

SkepticOne

In relation to anti-competitiveness, I've seen it advised on the broadband forum that if you want multiple trial subs, go with a reseller first and then Eircom. I'm not sure if this is still works but, if true in the past, it would suggest Eircom bending the rules in their favour. Obviously, Eircom are going to strictly enforce the one trial per line rule if you go the other way.

Whatever Eircom are up to now, it will be difficult for resellers to prove anything. Whether it is the OAOs, ComReg, the Competition Authority, all are dependent on Eircom for information. Eircom need to get sloppy and provide inconsistant information for any case to work.

Sponge Bob

Tom Young wrote:

Unlikely!

There is a cooperation agreement in place between ComReg and the The Competition Authority, all sectoral matters are deferred.

Please see: http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/comreg0306.pdf

I know, it does not actually preclude the Authority from initiating an investigation you may have noticed but the Authority may choose to let Comreg do it 'for' them as it were.

This basically says all matters related to the communications regulatory environment, big or small divert. Some of you who read the Market Analysis findings / conslusions will see that the National Competition Authority rubber stamp, because they have to under law only.

So sorry to rain on your parade, but have tried force this issue and ended up with sweet didley squat.

Yes but in order for one to bring it to Brussels once must conclude the Irish end, the advantage you may have (depending on your precise case) is that you may now escalate to EU level because the Irish investigation has concluded. Thats much better than a 5 year long interminable Irish investigation that precludes such an investigation .

Thoughts ????

Tom Young

Sponge Bob wrote:

I know, it does not actually preclude the Authority from initiating an investigation you may have noticed but the Authority may choose to let Comreg do it 'for' them as it were.

Yes but in order for one to bring it to Brussels once must conclude the Irish end, the advantage you may have (depending on your precise case) is that you may now escalate to EU level because the Irish investigation has concluded. Thats much better than a 5 year long interminable Irish investigation that precludes such an investigation .

Thoughts ????

Well can't give the detail, but tried it. Generally the staff of 52 in the Competition Authority have not got the expertise in order to resolve, review and comment on issues over and above general economics/econometric models. There maybe someone in there soon who could deal with Comms issues, but its unlikely.

Deference is almost a sure thing owing to expertise.

Throughout the New EU Regulatory Framework recitals references to the NRA (ComReg) and NCA (Comp Authority) are made, but even at DG (Directorate General) level in the EU there is cooperation. Example, Article 7. market analysis taskforce. This is a combination of DG InfoSo and DG Comp Scion staff.

There would need to be very precise and exacting evidence with expert type witness statements to ground of leverage unilater action.

Just opinion though.

shinzon

Ok im in either shock or denial here dunno which, what im looking at here is a Netopia wireless gateway installation pack fom eircom that arrived in the post this morning, accompanying this is a letter saying the Broadband will be connected up between the 16th and the 23rd of June

Now can someone please explain to me how this happened

Now i know theres no guarantee that this will still work even after connection, but isnt this getting stranger and stranger considering the last I heard they were sending a letter to us to let us know the state of play as regards the line

Truthfully i dunno whether im coming or going, its like some big chess game and im one of the pawns

Shin

Cabaal

So let me get this straight

1. For months and months your line failed and you cou;dn't get ANY DSL

2. Finally your line passes and you go with the Eircom trail which was at first 512K (even if your line was a long line 512K is the fastest speed you'd be able to get) later on your line was upgraded to 1MB

3. You cease your DSL with Eircom and your line starts failing, Eircom say flat out you can't get ANY DSL from any provider including Smart Telecom

4. Eircom re-enable their broadband on your line

Now I'm curious about 4, did you ask them to or did they just do it?
Also what kind of game are Eircom playing at your whole situation is a bloody joke!

SkepticOne

Looks like it is turning out to be more than just the principle of the thing. How long is the contract period with Eircom?

Sponge Bob

Shin is in for the year now , about 5 fat frogs a month ya wont be drinkin !

SkepticOne

Thats a bit of a bummer considering NTL are arriving shortly in his area.

shinzon

its says on the letter that i can cancel after 6 months

But it also says that its another 2 months free trial

ill talk to cabaal on point 4 about his post later on, but suffice to say all we were told was that theyd send us a letter in the post to say what was going on with the line and that thyed keep an eye on it for us but that it was unlikely it would pass for BB


Shin

damien

So, hang on, eircom's solution for enabling you for broadband even though the line is failing is to sign you up for broadband, even though you fail the test?

How did eircom retail manage to enable you for bb when eircom wholesale is telling the OLOs that you are unable to get bb on that line?

shinzon

damien.m wrote:

So, hang on, eircom's solution for enabling you for broadband even though the line is failing is to sign you up for broadband, even though you fail the test?

How did eircom retail manage to enable you for bb when eircom wholesale is telling the OLOs that you are unable to get bb on that line?

Damien your as wise to this as i am, i have no idea whats going on, only that i have this installation pack here and that sometime between the 16-23rd june it will be switched on, now whether it works after switch on is still up in the air

but as of now all checkers are still flagging fail

Shin

damien

So you never asked to sign up for eircom broadband, just wanted your line to pass the broadband test?

shinzon

damien.m wrote:

So you never asked to sign up for eircom broadband, just wanted your line to pass the broadband test?

Thats it exactly

Shin

Sponge Bob

But you had Eircom Broadband before Shin, how did you get that if your line always fails ???

shinzon

Sponge Bob wrote:

But you had Eircom Broadband before Shin, how did you get that if your line always fails ???

I dont know, the line passed i ordered got it that was that, remember this has been going on since april 2003, its only this year that anything resembling a pass has come on my lline

Shin

Cabaal

shinzon wrote:

Thats it exactly

Shin

Bloody hell, in that case wait till the line is enabled and working
Use it for a month or two or whenever NTL becomes available then get the line ceased.

If it starts failing again you have a case as TWICE eircom will have provided DSL and TWICE wholesale will have told other ISP's your line fails.
Dodgy dealings going on in Eircom imho.

SkepticOne

shinzon wrote:

its says on the letter that i can cancel after 6 months

But it also says that its another 2 months free trial

By letting you onto another 2 month trial, Eircom are in clear breach of the agreement with OAOs that there can be only one 2 month trial per line. The wholesale product that Eircom offers to OAOs only allows for one such trial yet Eircom retail are giving you a second.

It is up to OAOs (other authorised operators) to bring the to the attention of ComReg.

Eircom, if they want to avoid potential trouble, need to clarify immediately that you are locked into a contract period. They have exposed themselves badly here. Either that or stop your broadband.

damien

It's a 6 month contract with 2 months free. It is not a 2 month free trial.

SkepticOne

damien.m wrote:

It's a 6 month contract with 2 months free. It is not a 2 month free trial.

Ah OK. I was confused by Shinzon's "But it also says that its another 2 months free trial". Still, the two month free period is only supposed to be offered once. Eircom should not be able to offer it again.

Sponge Bob

it is effectively a new promotion so I'm not sure about that Scep

eircom are certainly providing inconsistent information to other operators as to the capabilities of Shins line. A line that had BB before should be flagged as a maybe in the database , if still in service it should be flagged as in service .

It should not be a fail

shinzon

well as of 15.23 today the dsl light has come on my router, steady as a rock so far

Shin

Sponge Bob

What does the line test database say now Shin ?

shinzon

Well all line checkers still say fail

Perplexing considering the damn things working now

Shin

shinzon

ok for all bods associated with esat digiweb smart netsource etc etc, please look at the following picture, pay particular attention to 3 lights on the right hand side of the picture

You see that second light..... good... well thats the DSL sync light, see that its rock solid and im getting a dsl signal, dont you think thats strange considering the line tests your running now are saying fail

Just something i think you should note for future reference if i do decide to go looking for DSL off any of your comapnies in future




Shin

paulm17781

As I said twice in this thread. I was told that if you have broadband the line will fail. I would suspect this was the problem all along.

shinzon

paulm17781 wrote:

As I said twice in this thread. I was told that if you have broadband the line will fail. I would suspect this was the problem all along.

and ive replied to you saying it wasnt, because the line was passing when the broadband was on the line the last time



shin

cgarvey

paulm17781 wrote:

As I said twice in this thread. I was told that if you have broadband the line will fail. I would suspect this was the problem all along.

You were told incorrectly. Various lines pass and fail, while all being BB enabled. Mine changes it's state every couple of months, yet I've 4MB/256K without any problems.
.cg

paulm17781

Fair enough, I'll be eating my hat so...