Using Skype to call Mobile in USA

Leeside

Skype charges 2 cent per minute for calls to mobiles in USA.

Does anyone know how much the receiver of the call in the USA pays? Is it the same as a local/national call where the caller pays the full cost or does the receiver pay something?

causal

Apparently they do, according to the Skype Knowledgebase

If I call someone using SkypeOut do they have to pay for the call?

The receiver of a SkypeOut call does not get charged any fees by Skype.

However, in some countries (the U.S. for example) people pay for both incoming and outgoing calls on their mobile phones. Also, if you call someones mobile phone and they are out of their normal network they might be charged roaming fees by their phone company.

hth,
causal

Leeside

Thanks for that info.

So, if the receiver pays, I'm wondering is it charged like an international call or an internal USA call. There''s a big difference -about 1.50 dollars per minute?

causal

I can't say for sure; but my guess would be that for the US it's charged as an internal US call.
I say that because I expect the gateway from the IP to the cellular network to be done stateside.

causal

Leeside

That makes sense, Causal. I also feel that its probably a local call also for the mobile user.

Just bought skypeout phone so I'll be testing it soon.

medO

Leeside wrote:

Thanks for that info.

So, if the receiver pays, I'm wondering is it charged like an international call or an internal USA call. There''s a big difference -about 1.50 dollars per minute?

The receiving party is charged at their normal airtime rate for incoming calls, ie the same as outgoing calls. If their subscription gives them 500 minutes a month of talktime, incoming calls come out of this. It makes no difference if they are local, national or international incoming calls.

In practice airtime minute bundles are much more generous in the US (than in carved up markets like Ireland) and many people have far more minutes than they can use - making incoming calls effectively free for them.

medO

Leeside

medO wrote:

It makes no difference if they are local, national or international incoming calls.

In practice airtime minute bundles are much more generous in the US (than in carved up markets like Ireland) and many people have far more minutes than they can use - making incoming calls effectively free for them.

medO

Tonight, the receiver of my call did a remaining credit check immediately before and then after the 3 minute call. The difference was $1.59. This works out at $0.53c per minute. Would this be a normal charge for an incoming call? It seems very high to me.

medO

Leeside wrote:

Tonight, the receiver of my call did a remaining credit check immediately before and then after the 3 minute call. The difference was $1.59. This works out at $0.53c per minute. Would this be a normal charge for an incoming call? It seems very high to me.

I assume from what you say that they are on a pre-paid card rather than a minutes per month, billed monthly time plan. However it should not change things in that the recipient pays a charge per minute for incoming calls irrespective of origin.

It would be impossible for a US cellphone company to detect that an incoming call to one of their mobile customers was from Ireland, or anywhere else. They don't have a CLI to give out and in all likelihood the call travels across the internet and only enters the PSTN in the USA.

Your party might wish to check the cellphone operator's website for tariff information - perhaps s/he is paying this per minute rate for all incoming calls?

medO

Leeside

Your right MedO. I've done a bit of research. The pre paid phone operates on .50 per minute. However the method of charging per minute is very complicated and depends entirely on the amount paid for the refill card.

Briefly, if you buy a $50 dollar card, the calls cost 0.125c per minute. However as the phone operates on a 0.50c per minute rate the credit will appear as $200.

$50 will buy 400 minutes and the minutes will be used at a rate of 0.50c per minute off a displayed credit of $200.

causal

medO wrote:

It would be impossible for a US cellphone company to detect that an incoming call to one of their mobile customers was from Ireland, or anywhere else.

Why is that?

They don't have a CLI to give out...

Why is that?


causal

WillieFlynn

A reason why CLI is often not presented when phoning from Europe to the US, could be because of their lack of data protection laws.

medO

causal wrote:

Why is that

Skype transport voice traffic over the internet to an economic point from which they can dump it into the ISDN/PSTN. e.g. calls +1 numbers from Skype will travel IP class to the USA/CDN and then enter the rather quaint legacy switched networks there. CLI is a function of the PSTN and ISDN only.

They do not have a CLI to give out because CLI has nothing to do with IP. e.g. you are sipping coffee in Portofino and you need to call someone in Dublin or Beijing using your PDA and Skype for 1,7 c per minute*, your call will travel over the hotel or cafe's broadband network connection to Telecom Italia or whoever they use. This has nothing to do with the establishment's phone number. In the IP world it is the IP number that counts

medO

*The 1,7c minute rate applies to calls to landlines only in Ireland. The Voda/O2 mafia haven't yet managed to takeover China and impose "sexline" rates on calls to/from cellphones in that country.

causal

medO wrote:

Skype transport voice traffic over the internet to an economic point from which they can dump it into the ISDN/PSTN. e.g. calls +1 numbers from Skype will travel IP class to the USA/CDN and then enter the rather quaint legacy switched networks there.

Talking about Skype specifically then the reason there is no CLI data is because Skype don't implement CLI (for outbound calls).
Talking in general, the movement of the call between the internet and the conventional telephone network doesn't affect* CLI:

[Technical blah blah]
CLI data is seamlessly translated between TCP (not IP) and SS7. SS7 is the protocol stack for inter-exchange signalling in conventional telephony. The TCP/SS7 transaltion is done at the Transport layer using the Transport Adapter Layer Interface (TALI).

CLI data is contained in the optional part of the Initial Address Message, in the Signalling Information Field of an SS7 Message Signal Unit.
It's not truly optional (your number is always sent no matter what) but there is a privacy flag that gives you the 'option' of witholding your number from the called party. But this data can be examined by the telco, under request from the police etc.
[/Technical blah blah]

As for determining the current location of a VoIP caller you're quite right that's not always directly possible from CLI since the underlying internet connection can be originated anywhere.

Notwithstanding the above, as for determining where a VoIP number originates (geographically) that is possible (though not always) using the international numbering plan.


* with the exception of security

causal

aaronc

causal wrote:

[Technical blah blah]
CLI data is seamlessly translated between TCP (not IP) and SS7. SS7 is the protocol stack for inter-exchange signalling in conventional telephony. The TCP/SS7 transaltion is done at the Transport layer using the Transport Adapter Layer Interface (TALI).

Most Internet Telephony Service Providers (ITSP) won't be using an SS7 interconnection. Intead it's:
IP (normally SIP/RTP over UDP) -> ITSP -> ISDN -> Telco -> SS7 -> Incumbent

An SS7 interconnection is better from a telecommunications perspective; geographic number allocations, interconnect agreements to get paid for incoming calls and more. However in relative terms it would be horrendously expensive and we all know how much VoIP users love low costs!

causal wrote:

As for determining the current location of a VoIP caller you're quite right that's not always directly possible from CLI since the underlying internet connection can be originated anywhere.

Notwithstanding the above, as for determining where a VoIP number originates (geographically) that is possible (though not always) using the international numbering plan.

Callerid is obviously very useful and makes life that much more convenient. However it should not be considered secure and should only be used for informational purposes and not trust ones. Callerid is set by the originating switch and there is usually nothing to stop a switch from setting whatever number it wants...

Aaron

causal

aaronc wrote:

Most Internet Telephony Service Providers (ITSP) won't be using an SS7 interconnection. Intead it's:
IP (normally SIP/RTP over UDP) -> ITSP -> ISDN -> Telco -> SS7 -> Incumbent

Fair enough but my point was that, regardless of where it happens (be it at the ITSP or Telco), the signalling conversion between VoIP & SS7 preserves CLI information.

Callerid is set by the originating switch and there is usually nothing to stop a switch from setting whatever number it wants...

Absolutely, it totally relies on trust. That was fine up until recently because telcos could trust each other, but now anyone with the right software (freely available and open to abuse) can spoof numbers and peek at restricted CLI info.

causal

medO

In view of where the thread has gone, one might clarify in practical terms what one means by CLI transmission, in the context of the original posting.

Take the example of a Blueface subscriber whose number is +353766039999 who is visiting his cousin in Los Angeles. He connects his laptop to the cousin’s LA landline DSL service. The DSL services is running over a landline which happens to have a PSTN phone number = +12135557890. He could just as easily be in a Starbucks with an OC3 leased line (which would have no CLI itself).

Any calls the blueface-sub makes would cause a CLI of +353766039999 to appear on the phone of anyone he called (assuming Blueface did CLI). There would be no mention of the LA number over which the DSL connection operates.

If he was calling a Los Angeles mobile number, and *IF* the mobile network in question surcharged incoming calls from Ireland to the receiving subscriber at a different rate than it surcharged incoming calls from within the LA area, the recipient would pay the Irish rate (assuming they were using the CLI to determine the charge) even though the caller was physically in the LA area, using broadband kit connected to an LA phone line.

medO