Travellers want thier own flag.

mike65

Not sure if this is politics or humanities....or cuckoos nest.

The Irish travellers umbrella group is banging on again about being a distinct
ethnic group and now want a flag to prove it. There will be a national vote carried out this autumn.

Story here its also being discussed on RTE right now.

Somehow this feels entirely bogus...maybe I should have a flag

Mike.

Talliesin

Lots of communities have flags apart from those defined by national borders, so why not? The gay community has two (I always felt the rainbow one was a bit fluffy compared to the pink triangle one, until I saw someone beating the crap into two English cops with one and just couldn't see it as fluffy since).

Manach

Well as members of a distinct community, boards.ie posters, should we not ourselves have a flag.
Any suggestions?

toiletduck

The jokes, the jokes, must resit temptation!

Moving this to humanities.

I'm puzzled what are the reasons for travellers not being identified as a distinct etnic group? I'd have thought they were.
They have a separate culture and a very distinct accent regardless of whether they travel in the North or South of the island.

Talliesin

Earthman wrote:

I'm puzzled what are the reasons for travellers not being identified as a distinct etnic group?

It removes the ability to discriminate against them without being labelled a racist, so we can't have that.

rubadub

Are the "settlers" going to get their own flag too?

Sleepy

Well, if they're not going to respect the Irish flag does this mean they'll all have to apply for Irish citizenship again?

toiletduck

rubadub wrote:

Are the "settlers" going to get their own flag too?

we prefer the term "settled community" or "those who follow in the tradition of humans who abandoned the nomadic lifestyle thousands of years ago"

Sleepy

Or more simply "taxpayers".

Talliesin

Sleepy wrote:

Well, if they're not going to respect the Irish flag

Who said that?

The Corinthian

Sleepy wrote:

Well, if they're not going to respect the Irish flag does this mean they'll all have to apply for Irish citizenship again?

For the work permits no doubt :rolleyes:

Seriously though, the present movement by the Travelling community to assert themselves as a separate ethnic group is a politically based one designed to protect what is essentially a parasitic or anti-social lifestyle - which is essentially what claiming the benefits and facilities of a Society is without contributing to it is.

Other than the fact that these are ethnic claims are questionable to begin with, even if they were a separate ethnic group, it should not make parasitic or anti-social behaviour any more acceptable. Unfortunately, however, in these days of politically correct Fintin O’ Tool diatribes, becoming an ethnic group suddenly entitles people to behave in as parasitic or anti-social a manner as they see fit; after all, it’s their right.

And finally, I do find it quite offensive for Travellers to start waving the “ethnic rights” card when there are so many honest and hard working non-nationals in Ireland who are not afforded the same. At least they really are ethnically different.

bombidol

In fairness people. Its not the Jedi we are talking about. Travellers have done nothing to deserve anything. If they want a flag they can make one up themselves and use it, untill some other traveller tribe gets pissed off they werent involved in the design of the thing and theres a civil war!

toiletduck

i assume the flag would just be a picture of a caravan...

simu

A wheel, maybe. Gawd, those Sunday Times journalists are lazy - Cant is not a form of "ancient Irish". :rolleyes:

Quantum

The Corinthian wrote:

Seriously though, the present movement by the Travelling community to assert themselves as a separate ethnic group is a politically based one designed to protect what is essentially a parasitic or anti-social lifestyle - which is essentially what claiming the benefits and facilities of a Society is without contributing to it is.

Other than the fact that these are ethnic claims are questionable to begin with, even if they were a separate ethnic group, it should not make parasitic or anti-social behaviour any more acceptable. Unfortunately, however, in these days of politically correct Fintin O’ Tool diatribes, becoming an ethnic group suddenly entitles people to behave in as parasitic or anti-social a manner as they see fit; after all, it’s their right.

And finally, I do find it quite offensive for Travellers to start waving the “ethnic rights” card when there are so many honest and hard working non-nationals in Ireland who are not afforded the same. At least they really are ethnically different.

I could not say it better or more effectively.

tabatha

bombidol wrote:

In fairness people. Its not the Jedi we are talking about. Travellers have done nothing to deserve anything. If they want a flag they can make one up themselves and use it, untill some other traveller tribe gets pissed off they werent involved in the design of the thing and theres a civil war!

this is one of the funniest posts i have read in a long time

tabatha

toiletduck wrote:

i assume the flag would just be a picture of a caravan...

this is getting funnier by the second

de5p0i1er

The Corinthian wrote:

For the work permits no doubt :rolleyes:

Seriously though, the present movement by the Travelling community to assert themselves as a separate ethnic group is a politically based one designed to protect what is essentially a parasitic or anti-social lifestyle - which is essentially what claiming the benefits and facilities of a Society is without contributing to it is.

Other than the fact that these are ethnic claims are questionable to begin with, even if they were a separate ethnic group, it should not make parasitic or anti-social behaviour any more acceptable. Unfortunately, however, in these days of politically correct Fintin O’ Tool diatribes, becoming an ethnic group suddenly entitles people to behave in as parasitic or anti-social a manner as they see fit; after all, it’s their right.

And finally, I do find it quite offensive for Travellers to start waving the “ethnic rights” card when there are so many honest and hard working non-nationals in Ireland who are not afforded the same. At least they really are ethnically different.

I'm with you on that one, there lifestyle is about looking for something they don't deserve and ppl are stupid enough to give it to them for fear that the bleeding hearts will be out protesting.

amp

This thread is about Travellers having a flag and will not decend into the usual bigotted generalisation shíte threads like these normally end up with. People will be banned if they make generalisations without proof. You have been warned.

Back on topic.

The Corinthian

amp wrote:

This thread is about Travellers having a flag and will not decend into the usual bigotted generalisation shíte threads like these normally end up with. People will be banned if they make generalisations without proof. You have been warned.

That Travellers want recognition for their own flag is a natural extension of their wish to be seen as a separate ethnic identity so as not be persecuted for their lifestyle. I would think this a fair enough comment to make.

However, the argument that Travellers have a parasitic or anti-social lifestyle rests largely upon the premise that while availing of the facilities of Society (such as roads, Social Welfare, Council sites) they do not contribute to that Society (i.e. pay taxes). The problem with proof is that one would have to specifically look at the tax returns of the Travelling community with respect to their numbers and compared to Society as a whole.

To the best of my knowledge no such study exists (although I would happy to be proved otherwise) and indeed would suspect that such a study would be a rather unpopular political hot potato were it suggested. Without such evidence it is not unfair to estimate this given what is known about the Travelling community - whether it is contributing a fair share to or simply taking an unfair share from Society.

Which do you think would be more correct?

amp

The Corinthian wrote:

That Travellers want recognition for their own flag is a natural extension of their wish to be seen as a separate ethnic identity so as not be persecuted for their lifestyle. I would think this a fair enough comment to make.

However, the argument that Travellers have a parasitic or anti-social lifestyle rests largely upon the premise that while availing of the facilities of Society (such as roads, Social Welfare, Council sites) they do not contribute to that Society (i.e. pay taxes). The problem with proof is that one would have to specifically look at the tax returns of the Travelling community with respect to their numbers and compared to Society as a whole.

To the best of my knowledge no such study exists (although I would happy to be proved otherwise) and indeed would suspect that such a study would be a rather unpopular political hot potato were it suggested. Without such evidence it is not unfair to estimate this given what is known about the Travelling community - whether it is contributing a fair share to or simply taking an unfair share from Society.

Which do you think would be more correct?

The charter is quite clear about this, no generalisations without proof. I also said back on-topic. If you require further clarification I suggest you pm me as further discussion of my warning on this thread will lead to temp bans.

Marcopolo85

mike65 wrote:

The Irish travellers umbrella group is banging on again about being a distinct
ethnic group and now want a flag to prove it. There will be a national vote carried out this autumn.

Somehow this feels entirely bogus...maybe I should have a flag

Mike.

Don't know if it's bogus or not - but they cause enough trouble as it is (oops.....probably shouldn't have said that...can't be upsetting them). From hawking incessantly at doors to parking where they like when they like to having their children positively discriminated FOR in schools......I wouldn't be in the least surprised! :mad:

amp

Generalisation without proof. Banned. Stupid thread locked.