Speed limit increase N4 from M50 to M4

unkel

Finally! Only saw the 80km/h sign (immediately after the M50 roundabout going westbound) today. The old 60km/h limit in conjunction with numerous speed checks was a travesty

The old limit applied from the M50 to the exit after the Foxhunter's where the limit increased to 80km/h. The new limit is 80km/h all the way from the M50 to the start of the M4 motorway

Ernie Ball

Now if we can get them to do the Stillorgan Dualer...

unkel

Agree Ernie, N4 was number two, N11 is still number one

Speed limits are one thing, but when the top Garda man shows his face on telly promising an end to the shooting of the fish in the barrel just to increase the money intake and to concentrate on dangerous roads instead and the next day the gatso van is out there again it makes one wonder :rolleyes:

jlang

That's great news and must have been enabled by blocking the median gap at the Texaco. Is it upped on the inbound side of the road too? Eventually some sanity, but it's probably only temporary as there'll surely be restrictions again when the widening is taking place.

On the N11, I feel at about half the junctions could have the median closed without causing great trouble. How many entries into Stillorgan are actually needed?

fletch

Thanks for the info unkel....shows how much attention I pay to the speed limit signs (well u don't tend to when a road is on your daily commute & u know the speed limit already) but anyways....is it 80km/ph on the inbound lane too?

ciarsd

interesting news - thanks unkel. I use this road quite a bit but it's not my daily commute (thank god).

what are the plans re: road widening? how far will it stretch? i'm presuming it is from the foxhunter/texaco towards lucan?

it seems though this will just push the congestion further up towards the newcastle crossroads which are just crazy at rush hour - especially if your coming from superquinn side or the village side. the recent change in traffic light signalling has helped (a little)

alias no.9

I really don't know how that gap in the median was ever justifiable so close to a perfectly good flyover and with the underpass at the entrance to liffey valley so close in the other direction. Perhaps the golf club have a Mr. Lawlor as a member. As for the newcastle road junction, aren't there plans to build a flyover with sliplanes there?

Seth Brundle

alias no.9 wrote:

I really don't know how that gap in the median was ever justifiable so close to a perfectly good flyover and with the underpass at the entrance to liffey valley so close in the other direction. Perhaps the golf club have a Mr. Lawlor as a member. As for the newcastle road junction, aren't there plans to build a flyover with sliplanes there?

I have a feeling that it was George Redmond who helped in that more than Mr. Lawlor.
As for the flyover/sliplanes - something may be planned but I doubt it will begin before we all have great grandchildren!

jlang

N4 Widening

DubTony

jlang wrote:

On the N11, I feel at about half the junctions could have the median closed without causing great trouble. How many entries into Stillorgan are actually needed?

I think the limit on the N11 has more to do with the number of houses, businesses, petrol stations than open medians. I'd be amazed to see the limit raised there ...

BrianD3

It makes me wonder if the people setting the limits have any clue what they're doing or are they just making it up as they go along. OK, the removal of the median crossing point is a factor but there's plenty of road between there and the M50 which hasn't had any changes. So now it's acceptable to do 80 km/h on that stretch but last week it was only acceptable to do 60 km/h :rolleyes: Also, the awful piece of planning that is the Texaco garage exit remains unchanged yet the limit there is gone from 60 to 80 km/h Personally I think 60 km/h was about right for that point but overall I welcome the change to 80 km/h. 90% of drivers will still ignore the new limit though.

Bogger77

alias no.9 wrote:

I really don't know how that gap in the median was ever justifiable so close to a perfectly good flyover and with the underpass at the entrance to liffey valley so close in the other direction. Perhaps the golf club have a Mr. Lawlor as a member. As for the newcastle road junction, aren't there plans to build a flyover with sliplanes there?

The underpass at Liffey Valley only opened in 99. The median at the golf club was there since the Lucan bypass was opened. Before the opening of Liffey valley, anyone exiting the golf club would have to travel to the M50 round about to go towards Lucan.

It's amazing the short memories of people here, who are just willing to make everything into a corruption issue. It's quite simple, you cannot when upgrading a road remove a right of way from a landowner, in this case, the golf club, without providing an alternative route. You must also remember, the gold club lost land with the widing of the N4 to Dual carrageway at that point.

jlang

DubTony wrote:

I think the limit on the N11 has more to do with the number of houses, businesses, petrol stations than open medians. I'd be amazed to see the limit raised there ...

I was thinking more of traffic light reduction than speed limit increases. Even if the limit was 100kph on the N11 and you still wouldn't save that much time because you have to stop so often.

ciarsd

Bogger77 wrote:

You must also remember, the gold club lost land with the widing of the N4 to Dual carrageway at that point.

i doubt they lost it, im sure they were WELL compensated for it

alias no.9

Bogger77 wrote:

The underpass at Liffey Valley only opened in 99. The median at the golf club was there since the Lucan bypass was opened. Before the opening of Liffey valley, anyone exiting the golf club would have to travel to the M50 round about to go towards Lucan.

It's amazing the short memories of people here, who are just willing to make everything into a corruption issue. It's quite simple, you cannot when upgrading a road remove a right of way from a landowner, in this case, the golf club, without providing an alternative route. You must also remember, the gold club lost land with the widing of the N4 to Dual carrageway at that point.

Quite correct about the underpass opening in 1999 but before that there was a set of traffic lights at the end of the fonthill road where those poor misfortunate golfers could get back on a westbound direction after exiting from the course. Either way it was a stupidly unsafe and totally unnecessary median crossing.

Nuttzz

ciarsd wrote:

i doubt they lost it, im sure they were WELL compensated for it

If something was CPO'ed why shouldnt you be compensated for it. You dont pick a figure and say to the NRA thats how much I want for it, they have established rates for these types of things

ciarsd

BrianD3 wrote:

90% of drivers will still ignore the new limit though.

was just thinking that to myself there - the 90% of drivers who ignored the 60KMH limit and done 80KMP+ will now not be happy with their 80KMH and will more than likely proceed to do 90KMH+

I cannot see the White or Green Gatso van man passing up an opportunity like this...

ciarsd

Nuttzz wrote:

If something was CPO'ed why shouldnt you be compensated for it. You dont pick a figure and say to the NRA thats how much I want for it, they have established rates for these types of things

your miss-quoting me nutz

naturally you should be compensated for such... and rightly so. i was commenting on "lost land due to the upgrade"

ciarsd

kbannon wrote:

As for the flyover/sliplanes - something may be planned but I doubt it will begin before we all have great grandchildren!

unfortunately i'd have to agree with your view. it pains me when i pass through this junction...it'll only get worse with adamstown, laraghcon, ongar and the rat-run that is the strawberry beds at peak times :eek:

Seth Brundle

ciarsd wrote:

unfortunately i'd have to agree with your view. it pains me when i pass through this junction...it'll only get worse with adamstown, laraghcon, ongar and the rat-run that is the strawberry beds at peak times :eek:

Aparently Adamstown will be a self contained town and will despite about 20000 people living there it won't affect traffic. Thats what the developers were saying! :rolleyes:

Nuttzz

kbannon wrote:

Aparently Adamstown will be a self contained town and will despite about 20000 people living there it won't affect traffic. Thats what the developers were saying! :rolleyes:

didnt you hear? they are installing star trek type teleporters into every house...

What would be the situation if you were gatso'ed on the road and it was 60kmph and by the time you got to court the limit had been increased to 80kmph, could you argue that the 60kmph limit was too low?

Seth Brundle

if you were caught breaking a limit then you broke the law and not future changes would have a bearing on it methinks!

Bogger77

alias no.9 wrote:

Quite correct about the underpass opening in 1999 but before that there was a set of traffic lights at the end of the fonthill road where those poor misfortunate golfers could get back on a westbound direction after exiting from the course. Either way it was a stupidly unsafe and totally unnecessary median crossing.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't junction that had a U turn lane. The NRA/CoCo cannot remove a right of way, without providing a suitable alternative route. The only reason the median crossing was dangerous is the petrol station opposite, which opened after contruction of the road, and that was due to Redmond.

Just remember that for all areas that are bypassed, there's locals who are diverted out of their way to make way for the commuters

ciarsd

hearings/trials in court are judged by laws in effect at time of offence

Bogger77

Nuttzz wrote:

didnt you hear? they are installing star trek type teleporters into every house...

What would be the situation if you were gatso'ed on the road and it was 60kmph and by the time you got to court the limit had been increased to 80kmph, could you argue that the 60kmph limit was too low?

Makes no difference, you'd have broken the Posted limit.

Nuttzz

thought as much, it must be a b!tch though if you were done for going 75kmph on it and the following week they upped the limit to 80kmph though!

Bogger77

Nuttzz wrote:

thought as much, it must be a b!tch though if you were done for going 75kmph on it and the following week they upped the limit to 80kmph though!

75k/h is 25% above the current posted limit, I'd feel an idiot getting down that much over!

Macy

jlang wrote:

I was thinking more of traffic light reduction than speed limit increases. Even if the limit was 100kph on the N11 and you still wouldn't save that much time because you have to stop so often.

Yeah, and they keep putting new ones on it - around Cabinteely/Wyattville, extra set at the galloping green.

The number of lights, and the sequence is silly on that road....

alias no.9

Bogger77 wrote:

I'm pretty sure it wasn't junction that had a U turn lane. The NRA/CoCo cannot remove a right of way, without providing a suitable alternative route. The only reason the median crossing was dangerous is the petrol station opposite, which opened after contruction of the road, and that was due to Redmond.

Just remember that for all areas that are bypassed, there's locals who are diverted out of their way to make way for the commuters

The petrol station about which Redmond was charged was in fact the Esso in palmerstown and not the texaco beside the foxhunter. As for people being diverted out of their way, the only ones affected in any significant way were golfers. How many are locals?

Lord Nikon

Noticed it this morning too, it's a nice change to the 60kph. It was tough coming off the M50 at 120kph into a snails pace at 60kph. Not that that made any difference because people (including myself), always tipped on at about 70 and then slammed the brakes upon noticing the Gatso sitting up.

They should make the other side of the dueler a 80kph zone too, never a Gatso up there, although I have seen them just before the Welding Company on the hill.

Glad to see that median closed at the Texaco. I'm pretty sure I screeched the car to get to the other side, to get some cheap fuel. It took ages if there was traffic.

Lord Nikon

neuromancer wrote:

They should make the other side of the dueler a 80kph zone too...

UPDATED, from the M4 all the way up to the King's Hospital footbridge is not a 80kph zone too, then it's a 60kph zone.

stevenmu

alias no.9 wrote:

I really don't know how that gap in the median was ever justifiable so close to a perfectly good flyover and with the underpass at the entrance to liffey valley so close in the other direction. Perhaps the golf club have a Mr. Lawlor as a member. As for the newcastle road junction, aren't there plans to build a flyover with sliplanes there?

iirc, it came out in one of the tribunals that it was put in to allow access to the petrol station (Texaco I think) beside the Foxhunter. I think it was Lawlor, as opposed to Redmond, who allegedly recieved a nice 'political contribution' for his civic-mindedness.

unkel

fletch wrote:

is it 80km/ph on the inbound lane too?

It is since this morning

Bogger77 wrote:

the gold club lost land

Freudian misspelling?

ciarsd wrote:

the 90% of drivers who ignored the 60KMH limit and done 80KMP+ will now not be happy with their 80KMH and will more than likely proceed to do 90KMH+

Dunno about that. Most people now seem to be doing around the 80km/h now

neuromancer wrote:

UPDATED, from the M4 all the way up to the King's Hospital footbridge is not a 80kph zone too, then it's a 60kph zone.

You're confusing me now. As far as I can see, the whole of the N4 between the M50 and the M4 is now 80km/h BOTH WAYS. Please correct me if I'm wrong

And I too feel that that median crossing should never have been there

samo

unkel wrote:

You're confusing me now. As far as I can see, the whole of the N4 between the M50 and the M4 is now 80km/h BOTH WAYS. Please correct me if I'm wrong

And I too feel that that median crossing should never have been there

pretty sure your right, took a close look at it today as drove that stretch in both directions and definitly 80 Km/h signs in all directions...still didnt stop car 3 cars up in the overtaking lane doing bang on 60km/h though going from Lucan to Liffy Valley.....

fletch

unkel wrote:

fletch wrote:

is it 80km/ph on the inbound lane too?

It is since this morning

I noticed that alright this morning unkel! Yay

fletch

samo wrote:

pretty sure your right, took a close look at it today as drove that stretch in both directions and definitly 80 Km/h signs in all directions...still didnt stop car 3 cars up in the overtaking lane doing bang on 60km/h though going from Lucan to Liffy Valley.....

Most mornings you'd be lucky to be doing 20Km/h there at rush hour.
(not for me tho.....ah the joys of flexi-time)

Stimpyone

Nuttzz wrote:

thought as much, it must be a b!tch though if you were done for going 75kmph on it and the following week they upped the limit to 80kmph though!

Yep, that's exactly what happened to me. I was clocked going through there in at 75kph in February and I got the fine last week.... sick or what :mad:

Ah well I shoud have known better as I use that road quite regularly, but for some reason I didn't see the gatzo until it was too late. 80 euros and 2 points on my licence

alias no.9

stevenmu wrote:

iirc, it came out in one of the tribunals that it was put in to allow access to the petrol station (Texaco I think) beside the Foxhunter. I think it was Lawlor, as opposed to Redmond, who allegedly recieved a nice 'political contribution' for his civic-mindedness.

Redmond did porridge for corruption and bribary in relation to allowing access to the esso in palmerstown, technically on the lucan bypass, not the texaco beside the foxhunter.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2001/04/15/story343034928.asp

Lord Nikon

Traffic is just mental inbound on the Lucan Bypass. Seems to be created mainly by the traffic lights on the roundabout, and traffic build-up going onto the M50, Northbound and Southbound.

Glad I was going to Liexlip, instead of going into town.

Seth Brundle

neuromancer wrote:

Traffic is just mental inbound on the Lucan Bypass. Seems to be created mainly by the traffic lights on the roundabout, and traffic build-up going onto the M50, Northbound and Southbound.

Glad I was going to Liexlip, instead of going into town.

The problem is threefold:-
1. the traffic lights - what cretin came up with the idea of using traffic lights on a roundabout?
2. cars coming from Lucan and going onto the M50 southbound often use the center lane and end up blocking those going towards the city.
3. cars coming from the M50 southbound and heading towards Lucan often stop on the yellow box junction.

It takes me much longer to get from Leixlip over the M50 than from the M50 into Jervis St.

a_ominous

neuromancer wrote:

Traffic is just mental inbound on the Lucan Bypass. Seems to be created mainly by the traffic lights on the roundabout, and traffic build-up going onto the M50, Northbound and Southbound.

I'm not sure that the traffic lights are the only problem. I used to travel south on the M50 joining at Liffey Valley. I travel by motorbike and can filter past the hold ups. Traffic that has past through the toll bridge just doesn't drive away quickly enough from the toll bridge. Maybe a partitioned slip road to get cars joining the road to travel at 80-100kmph would help. Anyways you always get muppets travelling at 80kmph in the overtaking lane, just cruising. Motorway speeds don't apply until past Ballymount exit. The 2 junctions are way too close to allow vehicles from Naas road to join safely while others are trying to leave at Ballymount. In order to get traffic up to speed, they could try putting a set of lights under the bridge near B&Q to control the gaps and get people to drive safely. There is a fricking minimum speed on the motorway too!

Seth Brundle

a_ominous wrote:

they could try putting a set of lights under the bridge near B&Q to control the gaps and get people to drive safely.

Are you suggesting placing traffic lights on a motorway?

a_ominous

Yup. Lights on a motorway. To be used only when there's a big backlog of traffic. Traffic studies have shown that after a road has been blocked, there is a better flow (higher speed and more vehicles) if there is a large gap for drivers to accelerate into. Letting cars trickle past a point does not allow them to get to max speed quickly enough.

Or they could try making the N4/M50 southbound slip road longer and put a concrete barrier to separate the traffic. Concrete barrier would allow proof of concept on a temporary basis. Then all the merged lanes from the toll bridge could drive up to speed limit sooner and merging traffic should also be travelling quicker joining the motorway.

Victor

Nuttzz wrote:

What would be the situation if you were gatso'ed on the road and it was 60kmph and by the time you got to court the limit had been increased to 80kmph, could you argue that the 60kmph limit was too low?

Imagine if you were doing 75 when the limit was 80 and they then changed the limit to 60, because they felt the road was unsafe for 80. Should you be prosecuted retrospectively in such a case?

How about claiming this year's larger tax credits for last year?