Remaining Life of socket A & case reccomendations

SouperComputer

Okay to im setting a media solution jobbie for a client and I need a file server in the attic.

Its literraly just a file server so TBH a PII would do, but they will be shelling out a considerable amount of money for this system so using PII might be extreme!

S939 is fairly expensive and overly powerfull for this application.

So the question is....... should I use semperon? How long before PCI and Socket A become impossible to get?

Also, im looking for a good value case with a fair bit of drive storage. Its also important to be easliy & neatly mount fans in front of the HD's to keep em cool for years to come.

I bought one of these used for myself and I am very happy with it: http://www.antec.com/uk/productDetails.php?ProdID=01001 Just wondering if you have any reccomendations for sites that have a good range of cases at good prices. Ideally id like to get all the gear from the one source.

People will be archiving their photos and all kinds on this, so needless to say RAID 1 will be going in, along with a "service plan" entailing backup and offsite, secure storage for their memories.

astec123

I doubt Skt A will be available brand new for more than 18months in all honesty. But PCI should last a good while yet. Basically computers as you well know are a finite thing, you buy something as top of the range and in 10 minutes its outdated. Just tell the client this when you start, that the machine will have a finite lifespan and at some point in the future servicing it wont be a viable option.

SouperComputer

astec123 wrote:

I doubt Skt A will be available brand new for more than 18months in all honesty. But PCI should last a good while yet. Basically computers as you well know are a finite thing, you buy something as top of the range and in 10 minutes its outdated. Just tell the client this when you start, that the machine will have a finite lifespan and at some point in the future servicing it wont be a viable option.

yea, just shopping around for SCT A board. TBH in the time I could spend looking for what I want (on a SCT A board), I could save money by just going S939 with AGP and be done with it!

DemonOfTheFall

Id say just go for the 939. That will be around a fair bit longer than Socket A.

As for the data security why not do RAID 5 rather than 1 ?

SouperComputer

DemonOfTheFall wrote:

Id say just go for the 939. That will be around a fair bit longer than Socket A.

As for the data security why not do RAID 5 rather than 1 ?

well, I plan on using a integrated SATA RAID controller. RAID 5 normally doesnt come with them, and TBH, the bandwith needed is relativly small.

At most, there will be 8 client machines connecting thorugh a 1gb port. I think mirroring is sufficient.

astrofool

Just the lowest athlon64 s939 would do, they have very good I/O as well given hypertransport and on-die mem controller. Turn on Cool 'n' quiet and it should be a very quiet, cool running system. The DFI and MSI boards come with dual gigE, which would be more than enough for a long while yet.

Would NCQ hard drives be an idea?

SouperComputer

if i could get a 500mhz S939 it would do LOL!

NCQ, hmm i doubt it. again, its not really serving a heavy demand. Worst case scenario is treaming a RAW DVD MPEG 2 file @ 1,200Kb\s

So, streaming MPEG 2 Stream to 6 clients: 7.2Mb\s total
MP3 Streaming to 3 Network audio devices @ 320Kb\s 0.9Mb\s

Okay, an oversimplfication, but well shy of the effective 400Mb\s (full duplex) of gigabit ethernet. I would say the NCQ "might" improve the response time if all machines call for a file at the same time. I feel its marginal though, as the 1Gb port is the bottle neck on the end of the server.

The system I have at home runs from a PII 266 with linux and a GB ethernet card and has no problems streaming to two or three machines while burning a CD @16x on another machine, receving files from a network Ghost image blah blah.

Will most likely use linux with some QOS, I would like to market VOIP and other goodies in the future, so QOS will help there

Any suggestions on cases?

jessy

SouperComputer wrote:

How long before PCI and Socket A become impossible to get?

TBH your looking at years, intel have massive stock piles of these, there are so many embedded systems that use low powered CPUs like the PI and PII that intel cant just stop supporting them because there is still demand for them, but TBH why are you worried about that, when there impossible to get just upgrade (to what ever is the Equivalent to Socket A in the Future, by the time this happens 775 will probably be just as cheap as socket A is now), the only thing you need to take with you is the HD's ya?

if your looking for a case with loads of space for HDs then have a look @ this bit expensive but loads of expansion slots

SouperComputer

the dilemma is this.

in total, the client could well be spending 15k.

The last thing I want to happen is some eejit kiddie to look at the server, see its a low spec and say, you got done for 15k mate. You and I know theres a lot more to it than that, but still, you have to spend a long time on the phone explaining everything! I thought S775 was being dropped like a hot potato?

On the other hand, the demand on this machine is very low. However, I dont want to be cought with my proverbial pants down with something that is underpowerd in the future due to unforseen circumstances. New servies or apps that sap CPU or RAM.

That case is nice alright, somthing cheaper would be best though! Looks for this one dont matter a toss as its going in the attic. The client machines will be these puppies: http://www.hushtechnologies.net/start.html

Mutant_Fruit

If its just a file server, tell em they don't need a top of the range machine. It'd be just as bad if someone else took a look at the machine in a few months time and said "You got done... this is rediculously overspecced".

Fileservers can survive on a 300mhz (if its just a fileserver). If you're going to be running other apps on it such as server programs, go for a cheap Semperon. Get at least a gig of ram, and a nice large raid5 or something similar. It all depends on their needs. Find out exactly what they need, and then you recommend a budget to them.

jessy

SouperComputer wrote:

the dilemma is this.

in total, the client could well be spending 15k.

The last thing I want to happen is some eejit kiddie to look at the server, see its a low spec and say, you got done for 15k mate. You and I know theres a lot more to it than that, but still, you have to spend a long time on the phone explaining everything! I thought S775 was being dropped like a hot potato?

On the other hand, the demand on this machine is very low. However, I dont want to be cought with my proverbial pants down with something that is underpowerd in the future due to unforseen circumstances. New servies or apps that sap CPU or RAM.

That case is nice alright, somthing cheaper would be best though! Looks for this one dont matter a toss as its going in the attic. The client machines will be these puppies: http://www.hushtechnologies.net/start.html

775 will be dropped soon enough, intel are really pushing there dual cores. my point was just as regards to the price in a few years time.

15k :eek: this file server must be a very small part of a much larger system your building for them yes/no?

Capt'n Midnight

You could get one of the low end Dell servers for a few hundred - minimum spec and IDE drives, then buy bigger drives elsewhere, and buy two or three removable IDE drive bays with fans built in - you may want to remove the metal plates and drill some more air holes (Marx used to have them for €20 or something) you'd need a case with a few 5.25 drive bays.

Other way is to buy two machines of the same spec so you can just swap over stuff - as long as you aren't running XP - most OS's are happy to swap to the same HW.

Unless you are getting redundant PSU's not worth spending a lot of cash on a server, also SCSI RAID is nice but propritery again not worth the hassle unless you are getting hot-swap. Mirroring means you can pop the drive in another machine to read off the data (cf. the drive bays above)

How big will the drives get - do you need to look at SATA ? does the BIOS need to support more than 128GB - just in case you paint yourself into a corner.

mp3guy

Did you say 15k? If you did... wow. You could build a dual processor Operton pc with 24GB of ram...

SouperComputer

the server will stay in the attic, so there will be no swopping of drives. Given a choice between a Dell and having to mess with it and building from scratch, ill go for self build. That way i know whats going in and i dont have to pay for a software licence I dont want.

We'll be starting with 200GB, and moving form there. Once I have an SATA card with its own BIOS size shouldnt be an issue. I have 2x 250GB drives running off a PII233 machine to my left here, using an adaptor card.

It looks like some of the software will be doing MP3 compression on the fly, and I envisge that the same may happen with video in the near future.

So, this is what ill do:

S939 Board, lowest CPU I can get my mits on. Board to have AGP for a cheap graphics card, SATA 150 & GB ethernet.

512 DDR more than it needs, but RAM is cheap as chips!

Decent PSU with good lines (thinking of when I have to add more HD's and stable currents for the life of components)

2x WD 250Gb (ive found these to be the most reliable) SATA drives

any suggestions for a S939 mobo that has SATA RAID, PCI and AGP?

there is a epox on komplett, but it only has 2 RAM slots

SouperComputer

Did you say 15k? If you did... wow. You could build a dual processor Operton pc with 24GB of ram.

aye I did, but that would be overkill and I also have to put in:

2 of these: http://www.hushtechnologies.net/start.html
3 of these: http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_specs.html

network the whole lot with media centre on the two hush's (provisional)

they are also considering getting a PC in their car which will sync with all this.

Fun, wouldnt you say?

Mutant_Fruit

Get a gig of ram for the server. As you said, its cheap enough, and its quite possible you'll need it in the future. 512 is the min. recommended nowadays, so its well worth futureproofing it slightly.

astrofool

MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum.

Can get one that comes with a wireless as well.

CyberGhost

SouperComputer wrote:

the server will stay in the attic, so there will be no swopping of drives. Given a choice between a Dell and having to mess with it and building from scratch, ill go for self build. That way i know whats going in and i dont have to pay for a software licence I dont want.

We'll be starting with 200GB, and moving form there. Once I have an SATA card with its own BIOS size shouldnt be an issue. I have 2x 250GB drives running off a PII233 machine to my left here, using an adaptor card.

It looks like some of the software will be doing MP3 compression on the fly, and I envisge that the same may happen with video in the near future.

So, this is what ill do:

S939 Board, lowest CPU I can get my mits on. Board to have AGP for a cheap graphics card, SATA 150 & GB ethernet.

512 DDR more than it needs, but RAM is cheap as chips!

Decent PSU with good lines (thinking of when I have to add more HD's and stable currents for the life of components)

2x WD 250Gb (ive found these to be the most reliable) SATA drives

any suggestions for a S939 mobo that has SATA RAID, PCI and AGP?

there is a epox on komplett, but it only has 2 RAM slots

what will you be running as an OS?

SouperComputer

MTL clarkconnect for OS.

Twill be linux unless my back is to the wall!

Inspector Gadget

To ask a dumb question:

What's wrong with a cheap Sempron on a Socket 754 board??? You'll get plenty of horses, modern IDE/SATA controllers (i.e. that can take current-generation large disks without add-on cards), for very little money?

[edit]If this is really meant to be a server, then AGP and audio are *rock bottom* on your priority list. If you want cheap performance, look for something with integrated graphics (no matter how crappy) and maybe onboard RAID?[/edit]

Gadget

SouperComputer

Inspector Gadget wrote:

To ask a dumb question:

What's wrong with a cheap Sempron on a Socket 754 board??? You'll get plenty of horses, modern IDE/SATA controllers (i.e. that can take current-generation large disks without add-on cards), for very little money?

Gadget

tis funny you should say that. I only noticed about and hour ago that you can get semperon for S754. Yes, its been a while since ive built a system! Looks like a good compromise.

How different are Barton's from semperon?

so when will S754's dissapear out of mainstream?

Inspector Gadget

The Socket 754 Semprons are Athlon 64's with the 64-bit extensions disabled; "Bartons" are a revision of the Athlon XP. As far as I can gather, AMD are trying hard to get out of the Socket A stuff entirely and concentrate on a single family, and are also planning to introduce 90nm Semprons (codename Palermo) later this year.

I'd imagine Socket A will be gone by year's end; Socket 754 might have an additional year left in it.

Gadget

SouperComputer

FFS, looking on komplett my head is wrecked!

the Mobos with GBlan & VGA are either MATX or only have 2 DIMMS or dont have firewire.

Eventually found what i need:

http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=15233

thats a relief, but its out of feckin stock!

Capt'n Midnight

SouperComputer wrote:

http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=15233

Now that is nice.

SouperComputer

alright, ive weighed up all the options....

S754 is probably going to be dropped soon anyway. The 1st atlon 64 chip (Tray) is only 20quid more expensive than a semperon on Jes.

Socket A I think could lead to disaster in the long run, this machine will most likely have heavier CPU demands in a years time meaning that a DC S939 might be a good move.

So this is what I have chosen:

Case: http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=14023 56.9
PSU: http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=14756 59.9
Mobo: http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=20380 96.95
RAM: http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=14293 42.89
CPU: http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=18752 122.38
Cool: http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=17547 9.99
HD x2: http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=19735 243.36
DVD: http://www.jes-computer.de/product_info.php?pID=20439 49.9



total, a snip at 682e + 40e shipping (FFS 40e for GLS, this is a joke right?)

for an extra tenner, the asus board offers double SATA RAID and 4 DIMMS. Along with their great rep.

Id forgotton that most of these boards with PCI-X have PCI still, so
I can use an old 8mb PCI for graphics.

The best value S754 setup with the features I need was only 60 euro cheaper, so considering with the S939 board I have both a more powerfull CPU, PCI-X and PCI, I think the 939 setup is well worth 60 squid.

On that asus board, would the GbLAN be mounted on the PCI or PCI-X bus do you think?

Wasnt going to go for NCQ, but its not much more money so decided Id try it in the end.

I chose the bequiet as its a know quantity for me. Im open to suggestions on good PSU's as a good price. Noise is not a major factor here.

What think ye?