Universal Service and Eircom

Solair

I've been reading a lot of threads on this board and on others about the poor and seeminlgy deteoriating service offered by eircom in non-urban areas.

There seem to be a few key issues that need to be addressed as a matter of urgency:

1) Planning:

There has been truely massive growth in formerly small towns and villages, particularly around the Dublin area. This has been forced by the insane price of houses in the Dublin area.

These towns and villages don't have the necessary infrastructure to deal with this kind of sudden growth and this seems to be showing up rather more dramatically in the eircom network. It's quite possible that the exchanges in these areas were originally planned for very small rural populations and may not have the required number of PSTN/ISDN ports or even physical space to host lines. They may also have insufficient capacity to backhaul calls to the rest of the network.

As for broadband, I'm sure a similar scenario might apply. The exchange's too small, there isn't sufficient ATM capacity to cope with the demand for data etc etc.

Also, it seems that even the local cabling infrastructure isn't capable of coping with the number of new lines in many cases.

IF eircom is the sole provider of copper telephone lines, they have to be directly involved in the planning process. The planning authority should be contacting them and ensuring that they have sufficient time to react proactively to demand and that they're not simply flooded with thousands of orders for new lines after the houses go up and have to react to that demand.

Planning also shoudn't be granted in areas where infrastructure isn't available or at least suspended until it is available.

ESB is informed in advance of such developments and networks are planned accordingly.

Believe me, if you have property developers hammering the government about lack of availability of telecommunication services holding up their projects there'll be very very rapid movement!

Telecommunication services should be declared as essential services.


2: Proper regulation.

A system of penalties should apply for failure to provide universal service in a timely maner:

Where eircom's been informed of a development in sufficient time and has been given due opportunity to update and reinforce its network it should be fined a rate per line per day of delay.

Likewise in areas where sufficient capacity is already avaialble (i.e. urban areas etc) a similar scenario should apply.

---

If we keep things as they are, the whole system will end up a complete and utter mess.

damien

A new USO is but a few weeks away.

vinnyfitz

Solair wrote:

IF eircom is the sole provider of copper telephone lines, they have to be directly involved in the planning process. The planning authority should be contacting them and ensuring that they have sufficient time to react proactively to demand and that they're not simply flooded with thousands of orders for new lines after the houses go up and have to react to that demand......

Telecommunication services should be declared as essential services.

Good points Solair.

The Oireachtas Committee report on Broadband 18 months ago did address the planning issue but I have not noticed any progress on their recommendations since. Maybe there is stuff going on behind the scenes?

David McRedmond lamented the fact that Telecoms is not an essential service when he spoke at the Broadband Conference in Galway recently. He seemed to feel Eircom has no influence with the planning authorities.

Sponge Bob

Thats not what McRedmond is on about at all when he bangs on about essential services . McRedmond has right of way anywhere he wants, no comeback, under the old Wireless Telegraphy Acts .....crown prerogative in effect .

Nor is it that difficult for Eircom to get data from planning authorities although there is indeed merit in the individual planning applicant being forced to ask Eircom in advance for a connection (s) (as long as they will prewarn that if you build in location X they will pairgain you becasue you are way off at the end of a boreen and as long as the applicant must pass this data on in full if they aree selling their house ) in the same way you have to approach the ESB to see if they will connect you.

The only problem there is that I would take the ESB on its word while I would require Eircom to write it all down .

McRedmond simply wants the taxpayer to make his extortionate prices look better, see :

What Does "An Essential Service" mean ?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=232554&highlight=13.5%25

dahamsta

Sponge Bob wrote:

McRedmond has right of way anywhere he wants, no comeback, under the old Wireless Telegraphy Acts .....crown prerogative in effect .

Indeed, and like I've said before, property owners should be joining together to get this overturned and start charging Eircom rent for using their property. I'd take a month off work to watch that case live in the flesh.

adam

vinnyfitz

In Galway he was specifically talking in the context of planning when he used the term "essential service" - though he forgot to mention Eircom's legal rights under any Act.

I gather that even Eircom has difficulties with planners though they may not be nearly as great as those encountered by others.

SeaSide

dahamsta wrote:

Indeed, and like I've said before, property owners should be joining together to get this overturned and start charging Eircom rent for using their property. I'd take a month off work to watch that case live in the flesh.

adam

I would say that this is the problem that McR has. Developers are looking for cash in order to allow in eircom into the new estates

Solair

It's absolutely insane to start charging eircom, the cable cos, bord gais or esb or any other utility for access to new estates. These services are essential.

Developers should be required to lay communication ducts and provide adequate space for street cabnets that can be used by eircom, cable cos or other telecommunication providers that may come along.

It's crazy to tie a new developement to one particular telco, it's also crazy to not allow eircom into an estate oir to charge them for access. They may be a monopoly but housing developments absolutely need access to a copper-wire plain old telephony service. There is still no viable alternative and it does allow them to access a lot of DSL and voice providers even if eircom still physically owns the copper loop.

If magnet, smart or anyone else is let into an estate with an exclusive right to wire up the homes and eircom are kept out it means that the householders are stuck with whatever product they offer and won't have a right to use carrier preselect or access alternative internet service providers. You could be replacing a badly regulated monopoly with a completely unregulated monopoly!

The planning should ensure that eircom has easy access to any residential development but should look at future proofing and ensuring that there are easy routes for other providers to get in with coax, copper or fiber at any later stage. i.e. well layed out structured ducting.

If we're building all of this new housing there's absolutely no point in pretending that these services don't exsist! It's an opportunity to make all of these new estates and other developends completely broadband friendly yet no one seems to have the foresight to do anythign about it.

jwt

As Vinnyfitz pointed out the oireachtas committee said this , we have said it, hell even the dept has said it.

But given the queer ways that planning and development plans are created with zero joined up thinking the odds of this being laid down in law is minute.

And no politician wants to touch it with a barge pole. Local gov. and central gov. don't mix well at the best of times.

But it is a good point, and probably needs to be highlighted more often.

I'll stick it on the todo list

John

Sponge Bob

SeaSide wrote:

I would say that this is the problem that McR has. Developers are looking for cash in order to allow in eircom into the new estates

a few in Dublin maybe (dunno for sure) , it could be a suspicion Eircom will pay €€$$$ with line rental at €24.20 rental a month and all that

Solair wrote:

Developers should be required to lay communication ducts and provide adequate space for street cabnets that can be used by eircom, cable cos or other telecommunication providers that may come along.

Too toooo toOOO true, see older discussions on self same issue Solair

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1980626#post1980626

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2229843#post2229843

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=828653#post828653

nor did Eircom ever ever ever support common ducting for essential services as recommended in a certain report , a great pity innit Solair

SeaSide

Sponge Bob wrote:

a few in Dublin maybe (dunno for sure) , it could be a suspicion Eircom will pay €€$$$ with line rental at €24.20 rental a month and all that

Dont knowif its just dublin. can anyone remember what the portlaoise developer said at the galway conference. I think magnet may have a exclusive license for that estate for five or ten years.

There are probably more examples of developers charging than not in other telco services like mast locations, payphones, duct in industrial estates. I can see the developers point of view why should I pay to have someone else make a profit from my work.

cgarvey

SeaSide wrote:

why should I pay to have someone else make a profit from my work.

Because legislation says you should, because it's in the public interest to have good access to these services ... no wait, I'm dreaming again! You're right though, developers have no incentive not to charge / make even more profit on a development.

.cg

dahamsta

Solair wrote:

It's absolutely insane to start charging eircom, the cable cos, bord gais or esb or any other utility for access to new estates. These services are essential.

It's unlikely it'll ever happen, however you can make it a credible threat. I'm not sure there's any way to deal with Eircom beyond threatening them.

adam

Solair

I would think twice about buying a house that had an exclusive deal with one particular telecommunications provider. I certainly wouldn't be overly keen on being tied to Magnet for 10 years.

There's no reason why their call charges would have to be compeditive.

Unless they're going to impose CPS requirements on companies with exclusive infrastructure monopolies in general. I don't see why magnet / smart or anyone else should be able to do that. It's bad for competition and bad for consumer choice.

eircomtribunal

Solair wrote:

Unless they're going to impose CPS requirements on companies with exclusive infrastructure monopolies in general. I don't see why magnet / smart or anyone else should be able to do that. It's bad for competition and bad for consumer choice.

I would fully agree with that. We should not replace one evil with another, however sweet that may seem to be at the moment.

Problem is:
The incumbent was let off with its quasi-monopoly status all those important years now: ComReg's versions of Whole-sale line rental, FRIACO and the dsl whole-sale arrangements were full on promise but empty in reality.

If competing telco operators are to start under these conditions, they are unlikely to invest if they they are immediately put under a line share obligation. As they will not be deemed as operators with significant market power they are safe for the time being.
But for the tenant in a new development it is the same as being in the grip of a monopolist.
P.

Solair

Well, again. I don't think allowing them to have 100% exclusive access to an area will do anything for competition. You'll just end up with captive audiences who can't escape and will be ripped off.

The best sollution is to ensure that every home has an option of a normal PSTN line that does have CPS and lineshare availability.

If the other providers want to compete by offering interactive tv, very high end broadband and flat rate VoIP calls by all means.. but I don't think that's very likely if they can just pay a developer to lock residents into an exclusive contract for years.

Rather than competing they're simply buying customers and removing them from the marketplace for 10 years.

E.g. I am very supprised at magnet's offerings, they're hardly cutting edge given that it's a fiber network they could be offering amazing things.

2mbit download/upload internet
VoIP phone and a 20 channel TV service
and some interactive tv / video on demand
Video on demand is nice, BUT...

I'd argue that you'd do a better more flexible package as follows:
Sky+ (interactive, nearvideo on demand, hundreds of channels and recording capabilities)
DSL line + line rental + calls isn't that pricy if you shop around.

http://www.magnet.ie/default.aspx?pageaction=pricing
Isn't actually all that cheap.