Can good players win crap tournies?

NickyOD

So after winning this joke of a tourney in Nevada Smyths Limerick last week I decided to start an experiment to see if can actually be profitable long term for a good player to p[lay them. The structure is posted int he thread below. (Someone tell me how I make that a small link!)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=259652

On this occasion there were 45 players and 1 player at my table seemed to know what he was doing and because he was 2 to my left it actually worked out well because he respected me enough to let me steal his blinds. Unfortunately I had the drunkest maniac I've ever seen on my right who basically went all in preflop every second hand so I was taknig my life in my hands several times. From here on I shall refer to him as the fuktard.

The first time fuktard went all in he doubled up. I think he actually had a good hand like AQ that time, but then he got cocky and decided to move in the next 7 times in a row with random crap and ended up having to rebuy 6 times in a row. On one occasion when he did it on the button I called with K-T for hald my chips but unfortunately the BB also called, and he flopped an ace and I had to fold. My K-T would have held up against fuktards Q-9 though.

After I rebuy I doubled through with 77. At the break I took the add-on for €20 and had 7700 with the blinds at 200/500 afterr the break.

Fuktard seemed to calm down for a while which allowed me to win a few pots which I did postflop with KT and stole the blinds with J-9. I was up to 11000. The fuktard changed gears again and started pushed with random hands. I just knew after he failed 7 times in a row that we were gona see some huge suckouts so I tried to stay out of his way.

He pushed with A-4 and cracked the BBs AK hitting a gutshot for the wheel on the turn. Now get this. One player went all in and fuktard called and exposed his cards 9-7o with another player still to act who called as soon as he saw them. Remember one player is all in but there is still betting on the side and everyone knows fuktard's cards.

The flop was 6-K-6 and they both checked. Turn was a 5 giving fuktard a gut shot for a straight and also a backdoor flusgh draw. HE MOVED ALL IN!!!! The other guy called with A-J and is an 8-3 favourite with Ace high. Fuktard hits a 9 on the river to take the sidepot and the original player who was all in took the main pot with AK.

Next hand a fuktard actually just limps in and one other player calls for a cheap flop. with comes x-J-9. The BB moves all in and after 2 minutes of humming and hawwing from the fuktard he calls with A-T and uses the 10 in his hand to make a backdoor straight. to crack the BBs pair of Jacks.

About an orbit later the blinds go up and I'm looking at just 8BBs which believe me was not actually that short compared to others. Fuktard lost the next all in for a big bite of his chips but I can't remeber how. The next hand was my turn to get ass-raped. He limps in after about a minute and a half of thought and I push in MP with 99. It's folded around to him and I want him to call for almost all his chips. I tease the crap out of him and get what I wanted. He calls with Q-2 off. Flop comes T-8-2 giving him 5 outs and he hits another 2 on the turn to bust me out, laughing his ass off as I leave. Hilarious!

There is another tournament starting in the Bar by Paker Place in Perry Square, I think monday ngihts also. I'm gona have a look at it next week. It's a good ****ing thing I'm back winning money online or I'd actually give a ****. :rolleyes: One thing this tourney does have going for it is that the payouts and fees are very clear, but nothing else.

Week#1
Investment: €50
Finish: 1st
Winnings €190
Profit €140
Time: 3.75 hours.
Hourly rate: €37.35/h

Week #2
Investment €50
Finish: Nowhere
Time 2 hours
Hourly rate -$25/h

Profit to date from crapshoots: €90
Hours played 5.75
Hourly rate €15.65.

Hectorjelly

For the month of April I will be performing the similar, but no less important experiment, of testing whether its possible for crap players to win good tournaments.

Dave

I came second there tonight Nicky. €270 with no re buys only the buy back. My first live tournament, so I can't complain. Was the fuktard the baldy english guy who could barely talk? Also what do you look like, I'd no idea who to look for.

DeVore

Interesting post because I have been thinking about it too...

I'll approach if from the theoretical side (I'll leave the painful empirical data collection to you Nicky )

Theres a saying on the net "Never argue with morons online, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". If fuktards played "proper" poker, the better players would have a decent edge due to better knowledge of the maths and experience. But there are only 221 startin hands and its pretty easy to learn good from bad from excellent. Fuktards can therefore DESKILL the game to the preflop stage and force you into 55/45 gambles, when you would rather wait for better odds due to higher skill. They dont want to allow you to do that (unknowingly of course, they just think their KJ looks *purdy*).

Now, Devilfish himself can't alter the odds of overcards vs a pair or AJ v K4... so they've reduced his considerable edge to maybe 10%.

So, IMHO the good player should win more then a bad one, but LESS often then in a non-crapshoot tournie as the variance is higher, win-rate lower and the payouts dont differ so the good players win less often because of "noise" being introduced into the system (the noise of random hands calling them).

DeV.

NickyOD

Dave wrote:

I came second there tonight Nicky. €270 with no re buys only the buy back. My first live tournament, so I can't complain. Was the fuktard the baldy english guy who could barely talk? Also what do you look like, I'd no idea who to look for.

Nice work Dave. My picture is on my blog, but I was wearing glasses tonight (not sunglasses!)

The fuktard was a little fat piece of excrement who couldn't even talk or shuffle. He dropped the cards on the floor once and took 3 minutes to gather them up slamming the back of his head in the process. I won't be going back. I'll try the other one in Baker Place next week. I did get to meet at least one respectable player tonight and that is one of the reasons I go to these events to try and gather a crew of players with brains to get poker out of its ****ing nappy stage that its in now in Limerick. Right now I'm better off staying at home playing on the internet to be honest. My hourly rate online has gotten too good to justify playing these kind of tournaments. I think it will most likely get to the stage where I will avoid playing them all together, just play online, and travel to the bigger and better tournies.

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

For the month of April I will be performing the similar, but no less important experiment, of testing whether its possible for crap players to win good tournaments.

Will this be April 2006?

Dave

I see now. I was the youngest there I'd say (got checked for ID going in! :rolleyes: ), I've long hair and was wearing a black t-shirt and jeans. Was on the table which had a Royal Flush the first hand (well shuffled cards :rolleyes: ) if you're looking to put a face to a name.

califano

NickyOD wrote:

laughing his ass off as I leave. Hilarious!.

Very funny indeed.

Dropping and rummaging for his cards and banging his head in your next reply was a web gem too!.

jem

Nicky,
Seems like you played with the asshole that I did the night I played in the kilmurry.Only trouble was I had a table full of them :mad: :mad: :mad: .
Every hand bar 2 up to the break had at least 2 all in before the turn came down. I had aces cracked by q8, trips cracked by runner, runner for inside straight etc.
I personally wouldn't play in this type of game again.I like to play poker not crapshoot. There is zero skill when you are playing at this type of table, you just have to get lucky or more to the point don't get un-lucky.
A few of our regular game players did go again to the kilmurry I refused to go.
We play a tight game, with 1 rebuy allowed in first hour only for half the starting chips. The rebuy was brought in due to a few very early exits (including myself) on big hands, two of us hit flush on flop he had an ace flush . Of The 7 players we still had 5 playing after 4 hours on Friday night last. Proper poker, good bets, good folds etc.

Amaru

Hectorjelly wrote:

For the month of April I will be performing the similar, but no less important experiment, of testing whether its possible for crap players to win good tournaments.

The answer to this question is yes!

The Sky is Falling

Doc Farrell

another answer is why would you want to?

how can you win 150 for coming first when it cost 50 to play?
Where there only 5 players?
If they are morons as you suggest why bother? Admittedly I didnt read the post too closely because i'm not interested in the actions of moron players. and neither should you.
u get what u ask for. forget about these pub make up the rules as they go along tournies, there a waste of time.

dexem

NickyOD wrote:

I won't be going back. I'll try the other one in Baker Place next week.

Is this definitely on next Monday, being the bank holiday? Do you have any more info on it?

Krusty_Clown

Amaru wrote:

The answer to this question is yes!

The Sky is Falling

I'd love to see Phil Hellmuth take Jimmy White on in a game of snooker..

DeVore

Jesus Hellmuth is such a whinger. Sorry, I just had to say it.

DeV.

Amaru

While you're clearly stating the obvious, his point is valid. its possible to win with bad decisions if luck is on your side.

NickyOD

dexem wrote:

Is this definitely on next Monday, being the bank holiday? Do you have any more info on it?

No info other than what I heard from a player last night. The Aces High tournament will be running on the bank holiday.

Dave

The guy that organises it came around to our table last night and said that the aces high was definitely on this bank holiday.