soundproofing.

bonzai bob

Right i know the basics of soundproofing, build a room within a room etc but in truth how effective is it REALLY?

Our band have aquired a permanent rehearsal space that we need to soundproof, now after doing a little research myself, i've come to the conclusion the the 'room within a room' shall be a layer of rockwool/fiberglass and a layer of plasterboard. Now how effective will this be? i know we won't completely soundproof it but we don't want to annoy neighbours either.

And roughly how much would it likely cost, we have two units in the dimensions of(metres) 5(L) x 3(W) x 3(H) we're only soundproofing one of them.

There are also 2 other problems, the height of 3 metres is only to the wood beams, the roof is in actuall fact 4 or 5ft higher, should we just lay material like carpets etc on the beams or should we do something else.

And the floor, which is bare concrete at the moment, is carpet(as many layers as possible) sufficient enough for soundproofing?

We only have the houses behind us to worry about, all other houses are pretty far away. So we don't want to annoy them.

Eoin Madsen

Tbh, I think the best you'll manage yourself is to dampen the room. You can kill maybe 50% of the sound going out, and deaden the acoustics in the room itself. If you want it actually soundproofed you should probably hire a professional to do for you. It'd cost a few grand though.

Carpet would not be sufficient, and the walls would need to be a bit more complex than just two layers. You definitely need to wall off the ceiling with rockwool etc as well. Bear in mind that with the diffusive nature of sound, at any reasonable distance from source, noise escaping through the roof might as well have come direct from the wall.

bonzai bob

What do you recommend for the floor? I'm kinda lost when it comes to that.

I don't suppose you know how much rockwool costs? i've heard it's around €30 for 5sq metres?

Eoin Madsen

No idea, tbh. I priced it in a few places ages ago but I honestly can't remember. Have a google. I imagine it'll cost you a lot more than it should though - it's not a common consumer end product. The floor is the least important part (if you're on ground floor, that is) so I don't think it'd need to contain cavities etc like the walls and ceiling. But you'd ideally need something mostly solid and multi-layer. Changing medium is an essential part of dampening or soundproofing. For example, a hard surface (to reflect sound), a layer of rockwool (to absorb sound), a layer of air, and another hard surface. To aim of soundproofing is to keep sound in - the best way to do that is to reflect it back into the room. The aim of dampening is to stop reflections back into the room. They're very different things, and it's hard to achieve both unless you're not limited by space (and resources). A fully soundproofed practice room might be an acoustic nightmare to practice in, so some compromise will probably be necessary.

bonzai bob

tbh, i don't even care how much sound it blocks, as long as we don't annoy anyone else.

Are there any alternatives to rockwool?

Eoin Madsen

Well, rockwool is the by far the best dampener available. If you are dubious about using it, have a google for some alternatives. What sets rockwool aside from other dampeners is that it absorbs low frequencies quite well, which many materials don't. Bass doesn't reflect as easily as higher frequencies, so tends to travel through walls. That's what will be keeping your neighbours awake at night.

BeardyGit

Last may/june I fully soundproofed a 20' shipping container for a friend. He originally intended using it for a metal workshop once he'd jumped out of the sinking ship that I.T. industry has become. Including buying the container our total spend was just under 2K - This covered everything, from a suspended floors, ceilings and internal plasterboard walling, rockwool, plasterboard, lighting, paint, wiring etc.

We did all the work ourselves with the occasional help of a couple of mates. The overall dimensions of your rehearsal space would probably kick up the cost by another 700 euro or thereabouts. Give me a shout if you want to know any more of the specifics. It's now used as both a workshop at times and also as a rehearsal space for Mitch and his wife to practice - They both play saxaphone. Sound isolation from the outside world is really quite impressive and this is a good thing as the container is located beside his house in a very quiet and settled suburb of Churchtown in Dublin. If you're dealing with concrete walls on the outside you should have equally impressive results.

The cheapest place for materials was Chadwicks - They're great to deal with and will deliver for a very reasonable rate. Just be warned - They'll unload from the truck but won't carry it inside etc.

Gil

BeardyGit

I forgot - Mitch has a sort of build diary online. Don't worry, his narrative is a little wacky at times but he's quite safe really. The index is here - Apologies on his behalf if any of his links don't quite work...

http://www.afro-celt.com/pages.html

Gil

bonzai bob

I have to say, that's some great work! Yeah a container like that would be great to have.

Did you leave a gap between the rockwool and the outer wall of the container? or did you just have:

outer wall - rockwool - plasterboard?

Can you remember how much the rockwool and plasterboard cost?

BeardyGit

There's a gap of 3 inches between the rockwool and outer wall. This increases to 4 1/2" regularly as the container is corrugated. All of this helps the container to diffuse and reflect soundwaves back into the rockwool instead of simply translating into external vibrations on the container. If this were to happen you'd still be able to hear a lot from outside.

The rockwool wasn't too expensive at all - I think it was around 20 quid a roll (3" thick) and the platerboard was very cheap - Around 7 or 8 quid for an 8 x 4 foot sheet. The expensive materials was the 3 x 2" and 4 x 2" timber used to create the framing.

Give Chadwicks a shout and they'll let you know for sure. They'll automatically adjust any discount based on the quantity you order and get a quote from them for delivery too.

Gil

Gilgamesh

best soundproofing comes from buying your neighbours some earplugs

bonzai bob

Gil_Dub wrote:

There's a gap of 3 inches between the rockwool and outer wall. This increases to 4 1/2" regularly as the container is corrugated. All of this helps the container to diffuse and reflect soundwaves back into the rockwool instead of simply translating into external vibrations on the container. If this were to happen you'd still be able to hear a lot from outside.

The rockwool wasn't too expensive at all - I think it was around 20 quid a roll (3" thick) and the platerboard was very cheap - Around 7 or 8 quid for an 8 x 4 foot sheet. The expensive materials was the 3 x 2" and 4 x 2" timber used to create the framing.

Give Chadwicks a shout and they'll let you know for sure. They'll automatically adjust any discount based on the quantity you order and get a quote from them for delivery too.

Gil

cool, thanks a lot man, one more question, how long was the roll of rockwool?

again, many thanks man.

BeardyGit

Can't remember how long exactly but I think it was something like 20 foot. It's around 4 foot wide to the easiest way to handle it is to cut it in half while it's still rolled up. This makes it much easier to manage when you're holding it up to tack it in place. Use a standard carpenters jack saw and make sure you wear long sleeves, gloves, goggles and a suitable dust mask while you're at it. Rockwool is nasty to work with but once it's up it's pretty stable and won't dust off much.

Call a builders suppliers man - Rockwool is used for loft and cavity wall insulation all the time - Contrary to what Eoin has stated above, many people buy it every weekend to insulate their lofts in older houses - even B&Q carry a huge stock in Liffey Valley. There are a couple of types and if you're going to use it on an uninsulated external wall you should be looking for foil backed insulation material. This is considerably more expensive (extra 30% to 60% or so depending on the exact type) but will help keep damp out.

Don't forget that you'll also need to sort out ventilation for your rehearsal space if you're really going to soundproof it and have a 4 or 5 piece band in there. I can put together a sound damped unit for you at cost if you'd like. It works by using an acoustic baffle on the outside to that sound is damped in the ventilation duct. Probably around 100 - 150 quid for materials for this. If you have any windows you'll need to double them up too - Simple double glazing is not enough.

bonzai bob

Gil_Dub wrote:

Call a builders suppliers man - Rockwool is used for loft and cavity wall insulation all the time - Contrary to what Eoin has stated above, many people buy it every weekend to insulate their lofts in older houses - even B&Q carry a huge stock in Liffey Valley. There are a couple of types and if you're going to use it on an uninsulated external wall you should be looking for foil backed insulation material. This is considerably more expensive (extra 30% to 60% or so depending on the exact type) but will help keep damp out.

Don't forget that you'll also need to sort out ventilation for your rehearsal space if you're really going to soundproof it and have a 4 or 5 piece band in there. I can put together a sound damped unit for you at cost if you'd like. It works by using an acoustic baffle on the outside to that sound is damped in the ventilation duct. Probably around 100 - 150 quid for materials for this. If you have any windows you'll need to double them up too - Simple double glazing is not enough.

Na there is no windows. We're used to no ventilation by now after using the rehearsal studios in Dublin:rolleyes: It's basically like a garage, there's two big steel doors so if we think we're gonna suffocate then we can just open them (plus these doors are also going to pose a problem for soundproofing)

What was the wood that you used for the floor? Is it hard to do a suspended floor?

david

I'd say its like laying decking for a garden/patio. Just lay some lengths of 3x2 around the edges of the walls, then lay some lengths perpendicular to the walls to form a grid. Then just put the rockwool sheets in between the lenths and screw a plywood floor surface down with a gap of air between the rockwool and plywood. That should do the trick. It would get really really hot in that room though!

BeardyGit

Freakonaleashx is pretty much spot on there. The only thing it that you really don't need to go this far if you're building on a concrete floor. You can lay a couple of layers of the insulating foam used with laminate flooring and cover that with plywood - A true suspended floor can be very expensive to do it right for soundproofing purposes. A damped drum riser could be helpful, build it up using 8x 4 sheets with layers of foam in between.

Those doors could be a nightmare altogether. Can you take some photos of the space and put them up, along with dimensions for EVERYTHING and I'll draw up some plans and a cutting list?

I love a new project to keep me distracted from work!

Gil