Fitz €270, 27th May

Davey Devil

Sometimes I just want to bite my hand off.

Approx 27 players left top 18 get paid.

Blinds 1000/2000. I've got 11,000 in total and 2000 of that is in the BB. One limper from about 4th position and the SB completes. I've A3 clubs.

I've played against the limper before, terrible player. He's the guy who blew his monster stack away in the 50/50 about a month ago and only finished second after starting the final table with 75% of the chips. He has about 30,000 and he really could have any hand. SB was a youngish lad, seemed like an ok player limped with decent hands, raised with good hands. Has about 12,000.

With 6,000 out there I figured I'd push and try pick up the 6,000 on offer, seeing as I was low on chips. Limper in 4 called the extra 9,000, SB folds. Limper flips 8's, no help for me.

I just can't decide what I should have done in this spot. Any opinions?

Option 1. Do what I did.
Option 2. Check and tank it in on any flop.
Option 3. Check and play the flop passively, folding to any raise.
Option 4. None of the above.

As far as I can remember Dragon and Shortstack were still in when I left, hope you lads did ok.

Lafortezza

I don't see anything wrong with what you did at all. The limper probably should have raised if he was going to call an all-in, but that's the Fitz for you. Was calling your push of 9k more a big chunk out of the limpers stack?

If it had been heads-up with the limper instead of the SB coming along I might have been tempted to check pre-flop and push on any 3 cards that came down, but I suspect the 8's would have called anyway. 3-handed to the flop it would have been far more risky.

BigDragon

Davey Devil wrote:

As far as I can remember Dragon and Shortstack were still in when I left, hope you lads did ok.

Shortstack 22nd
BigDragon 21st

ionapaul

BigDragon wrote:

Shortstack 22nd
BigDragon 21st

Ul gg lads. Was knocked out just after mid-night myself, very shortstacked and finally, finally getting a hand (cowboys), kevin f and the BB went with me, kev had the bullets. Hope tonight goes better for the lot of us.

Dr_Colossus

Anyone know the makeup of the final table and the details involved?

Shortstack

I thought you were going to make the money Bigdragon, from what I saw you were playing a good solid game. What happened?

Davey Devil, You had to make a move there, very similar to how I went out. No good trying to slip into the money, you have to start getting chips. If they fold thats 6000 that turns into 12,000 when you double up with a real hand

The guy sat to my left, Kevin williamson, was playing very well all night and had reasonable chips. If he didn't make the final table I would be very surprised. Eoighn (why can't it just be Owen?) O'dea was still in, as was Joe (not O'neill). Also Pat from Drogheda (Not the Storyteller, the other one) was syill hanging on. A few other familiar faces and a guy called Vinny 'Long lad' from Pokerevents were still in. Apparently his wife gave him the nickname 'long lad', he was hitting cards all night, I think I need a new suggestive nickname !

Nicky OD was floating about in his sunglasses, I never had chance to introduce myself mate although I believe you met a few other Boardsters? Keep away from that Blackjack!

Hitman Actual

Hard luck lads... so bloody close.

Davey Devil, I dont see a lot wrong with what you did here. You probably have a lot of folding equity in this spot; you were just unlucky to run into a badly played middle pair. If you just check your BB with the intention of pushing any flop, you have two players to worry about, which is dangerous. An option might be to wait for your SB and then make a similar move, but I dont think it makes any real difference. Letting the blinds come through you leaves you very low with 4BBs, so you have to make a move before that happens.

I didn't play in the end... I like to use the freeroll and satellites to see if I'm in any sort of form, and when I missed my turn to act a few times in one satellite, I knew the game was up (busy in work all week, and wrecked tired, so it would just be a waste of 270euro). Tonight will hopefully be different...

BigDragon

Shortstack wrote:

I thought you were going to make the money Bigdragon, from what I saw you were playing a good solid game. What happened?

Davey Devil, You had to make a move there, very similar to how I went out. No good trying to slip into the money, you have to start getting chips. If they fold thats 6000 that turns into 12,000 when you double up with a real hand

Much the same as the above. Everyone was either folding or raising to a point of pot committing me if I played. Nobody was knocked out after Shortstack for what seemed like hours so scraping into the money was lokking unlikely. So, I had to move as the blinds were killing me at 1500/3000 with 12k in hand.

I went all in with KTs and got a call with TT (who thought about folding as the only hand I had shown in the previous hour was AA).

You know the rest. A solid game that I enjoyed. Looking forward to tonight now.

zonemelt

Davey Devil wrote:

Sometimes I just want to bite my hand off.

Approx 27 players left top 18 get paid.

Blinds 1000/2000. I've got 11,000 in total and 2000 of that is in the BB. One limper from about 4th position and the SB completes. I've A3 clubs.

I've played against the limper before, terrible player. He's the guy who blew his monster stack away in the 50/50 about a month ago and only finished second after starting the final table with 75% of the chips. He has about 30,000 and he really could have any hand. SB was a youngish lad, seemed like an ok player limped with decent hands, raised with good hands. Has about 12,000.

With 6,000 out there I figured I'd push and try pick up the 6,000 on offer, seeing as I was low on chips. Limper in 4 called the extra 9,000, SB folds. Limper flips 8's, no help for me.

I just can't decide what I should have done in this spot. Any opinions?

Option 1. Do what I did.
Option 2. Check and tank it in on any flop.
Option 3. Check and play the flop passively, folding to any raise.
Option 4. None of the above.

Option 2 or 3, depending on the flop. I think you don't have enough folding equity to make this move preflop.

Your raise is less than a pot raise and A3 suited, or otherwise, isn't a big enough ace since you're going to be called by the 4th pos guy with AT-AK (maybe A9) and 88-AA (maybe 77), considering his stack size.

So, if you're called you have about 32% equity (less overall if he will call with lesser aces than AT), meaning you need to be pretty sure you're going to pick up the pot, and you're not.

I don't think he played his 88 too badly, the limp was fine as long as he's capable of stealing on semi-dangerous flops when checked to. (Edit: ) And about 1/3 of the time he'll have an overpair which he can take down the pot on the flop with fairly safely...

ollyk1

I think I'd have checked and bet a scary flop/turn (maybe with a cheeky half pot bet looking for an all-in reraise).

This is based on the guy you were playing - he was always calling your all-in. He likes to see flops and you're just not in a position to fight it. You had position post flop and your fold equity goes up then imho. (presuming that the SB stays passive)

dinjo99

Shortstack wrote:

The guy sat to my left, Kevin williamson, was playing very well all night and had reasonable chips. If he didn't make the final table I would be very surprised. Eoighn (why can't it just be Owen?) O'dea was still in, as was Joe (not O'neill).

6 0f us took 2,500 each, including myself("Joe not O Neill"), Sean from Cavan, Kevin(young, glasses, spiky hair) American girl and two others(sorry, don't know names). Played on for another 5k split between first three. I was fourth. Kevin and American girl heads up when I left with Kevin looking strong. 5.5k for 1st and 4k for 2nd following deal.
Lots of bad beats at final table. American girl was all in 5 times when behind and survived. Kevin won two huge pots with pocket sevens against bigger pocket pairs. Good game.

Hitman Actual

Zonemelt, I think your range of hands is too high though. Yes, you'll get called by AA-JJ, AK, AQ, etc, but terrible and all as the player is, I reckon he'll raise preflop with those hands. A more likely range of hands would be 66-TT, AJ-A9, KQ-KT, QJ-QT, etc, assuming he is that bad. And the raise is 9K out of his stack of 30K, which is about 30%, quite a lot.

Fair enough, it's not a terrible limp with the eights, but at this stage in the 270 game he should be raising, imo, putting pressure on the smaller stacks.

kinaldo

Dr_Colossus wrote:

Anyone know the makeup of the final table and the details involved?

Didn't really recognise anyone on the final table, but anyway, I won! €5,500! (we did a deal at some stage so the final 6 all got at least €2,500)
It was almost 5 am and I was practically falling asleep at the table having been in The Fitz since 4.30pm for the freeroll but it was worth it in then end. I don't know how I did it, last night's a bit of a blur and I was just happy to be in the money. Can't remember her name but the young girl finished 2nd.

zonemelt

lenny_leonard wrote:

Zonemelt, I think your range of hands is too high though. Yes, you'll get called by AA-JJ, AK, AQ, etc, but terrible and all as the player is, I reckon he'll raise preflop with those hands. A more likely range of hands would be 66-TT, AJ-A9, KQ-KT, QJ-QT, etc, assuming he is that bad. And the raise is 9K out of his stack of 30K, which is about 30%, quite a lot.

Yeah, you're probably right with that range as regards limping. I would still say that A3 is a little weak with the size of raise going in. Pot equity against that range of hands is just under 50% and he will probably call preflop with the slight majority of the ones you've listed...

Fatboydim

I think the only thing you did wrong here was underestimate the limper. Of course you didn't know what he had, but would have been pretty certain of a call. If you didn't want the call then you should have folded as you know you're only likely to be playing with one card assuming he has two overcards to the three. Without knowing what cards he has you're a 6/4 shot. Pretty much a coinflip. Once you see his 8s your about a 2/1 dog.

So that's your decision - do I want a double up chance or not?

Checking and raising on the flop would have been unlikely to work as your limper would put you on any pair or a bluff and if the flop is all high cards but no ace you have to worry about the SB as well. You also risk the SB betting and as you have him down as a decent player you'd most likely have to fold if he did bet.

You could have checked all the way through - and the limper may well have gone to the river - but that's not going to get you chips.

So final analysis - I would have probably gone all in Pre-flop and taken my chances.

kinaldo

dinjo99 wrote:

Shortstack wrote:

The guy sat to my left, Kevin williamson, was playing very well all night and had reasonable chips. If he didn't make the final table I would be very surprised. Eoighn (why can't it just be Owen?) O'dea was still in, as was Joe (not O'neill).

6 0f us took 2,500 each, including myself("Joe not O Neill"), Sean from Cavan, Kevin(young, glasses, spiky hair) American girl and two others(sorry, don't know names). Played on for another 5k split between first three. I was fourth. Kevin and American girl heads up when I left with Kevin looking strong. 5.5k for 1st and 4k for 2nd following deal.
Lots of bad beats at final table. American girl was all in 5 times when behind and survived. Kevin won two huge pots with pocket sevens against bigger pocket pairs. Good game.

Who's this Kevin guy you're talking about? My name is Mark!!! And yeah those sevens were nice, I owe a lot to them.

dinjo99

kinaldo wrote:

dinjo99 wrote:

Who's this Kevin guy you're talking about? My name is Mark!!! And yeah those sevens were nice, I owe a lot to them.

Sorry Mark, I'm terrible with names. Well done last night, you got lucky once or twice but played your big stack very well. Also the deal you agreed to when chip leader was extremely fair. Enjoy your winnings.

kinaldo

Thxs Joe, u too. In hindsight I could've won a lot more but it was a fair deal at the time and I was pleased enough to be taking home anything. Plus it speeded up the game when I was so tired I couldn't even count the chips anymore.

NickyOD

I've got no problem with the way you played it Davey, unless you know the limper only limps in with good hands. Its a decent enough pot to increase your stack significantly to make a it worthwhile play.

Sorry about the squeezeplay I made with the JQ. I was surprised you didn't isolate there. I knew the shorty was weak and with the pot that was there and my BB already in I really had no choice put to puish with just 6BBs left.

BigDragon Sorry for showing the crap I pushed with, that was rude, but your fold was still good.

Depite going out at the 500/1000 level I enjoyed a good night. Made my buy in back in the holdem only cash games. Wasn't easy with the likes of Gavin Stevens and other guys sitting down with over a grand. Was my first time player proper cash games. I deliberately sat down underfunded with just 100 and tried to pick spots with the weak loose players. It payed off and I left with over 300. I've never seen so many drunk maniacs at a poker table. Was bloody hilarious at times.

Davey Devil

NickyOD wrote:

I was surprised you didn't isolate there.

I'm suprised I didn't too. When I called the 3500 I think I just thought I'd be the only caller as that was the pattern at that stage. When you went over the top I didn't fancy my A10 anymore. I really should have isolated the origional raiser, it was a lack of concentration. It was weak play and I was kicking myself when the cards went over. Even though I would have lost, it doesn't make it any less forgiveable.

Best of luck in the super sat.

Marq

Worst. Deal. Ever.

kinaldo

Marq wrote:

Worst. Deal. Ever.

Shut up! The more I think about it the more I regret it. I can't remember what my chip lead was when I agreed to it and I'd rather not think about it. F*** it anyway I just got back from there now after turning €25 into €450 in a hold'em/omaha cash game despite the fact that I suck at omaha

POKERKING

kinaldo well done on the win!did you win a freeroll to get in?with the last 3 tables you started to get great hands as far as i remember but fair play you were prob right to do the deal cos if you hadnt it would of come back to haunt you!!i won a freeroll to get in and came 15th 400€ not a bad profit esp cos i need the money so badly!!was it just me or was the standard not as high as i was expecting?

kinaldo

POKERKING wrote:

kinaldo well done on the win!did you win a freeroll to get in?with the last 3 tables you started to get great hands as far as i remember but fair play you were prob right to do the deal cos if you hadnt it would of come back to haunt you!!i won a freeroll to get in and came 15th 400€ not a bad profit esp cos i need the money so badly!!was it just me or was the standard not as high as i was expecting?

Yeah I got my ticket in the freeroll the previous Thursday. As for the deal, well I put that down to inexperience on my part. The next time I have a chip lead at that stage there shall be no deals. Can't comment about the standard, that was my first time ever playing the monthly game and I'd only ever entered other buy in tourneys with credit.

POKERKING

yeah that was my first real proper tournment too all my oters were credit too its just from what i heard the standard was supposed to be the best of the best!so two young lads that win freerolls end up in the money at the big tournement in their first proper tournements that must be a first??

Davey Devil

The standard isn't the best of the best. There's a good portion of freerollers and other muppets with more money than sense which lower the standard. Saying that most of the freerollers have a pretty decent game. I'd say the Monday 100 has a better quality field all round. Very tough to find an easy table on the Monday.

Whiteshadow and myself finished first and second last May, although it wasn't my first big tournament we both qualified from the freeroll. Those were the days, poker seemed much easier back then.

whiteshadow

didn't it just....!
fado fado

Hitman Actual

Most of my cashes in this came from either freeroll or satellite tickets as well. I find that there's less pressure when you're playing for free! I dont mind paying the full price, but there's something sweet about turning 10euro into 6K+.