DIY Electrics

patrido

Hi All

I have a *friend* who is building a new house and wants to do the wiring himself. He's not an electrician, but has quite a good knowledge of what's required, as well as current regulations, etc.

I know that the ESB require a completion cert from RECI before they will do a connection. Also RECI say they can certify installations done by "non certified contractors". Does that mean that anyone with the necessary competence, but without any qualifications, or commercial experience?

Thanks in advance for any info...
pd

yop

pd

Couldn't see him been certified by RECI if he has absolutely no qualifications but if he is competent, then get a spark to check all the wiring when he has the labour work done. Save him money but at least he is sure it has been checked by a pro

kadman

patrido wrote:

Hi All

He's not an electrician, but has quite a good knowledge of what's required, as well as current regulations, etc.

That line says it all for me. Crappy door hanging, won't kill you. Crappy electrics will. :eek:

Its not enough to have quite a good knowledge, you either know it or not, half measures are not good enough where electrics are involved.

kadman

peasant

What is small, black and sticks to the wall ???








Someone who thought he was a "good enough" electrician

rooferPete

Hi,

Your "Friend" is right, RECI have a surveyor who will call and check out the installation at a cost per visit.

There are so many rules I reckon he would probably have paid a sparks by the time RECI pass it for him.

The cert is more than a piece of paper, that is why the ESB want the full details it is backed by an insurance policy should anything go wrong everyone is covered.........Including the bodies.

.

kadman

Not to worry Rooferpete, I know how to get burn marks off the wall and floors.

kadman

Jackz

Hey take a look at this form here:

http://www.reci.ie/c-inspectnon.html

You have to do continuity and resistance testing. The meters for this testing are quite expensive. In the real world electricians rarely do these tests but are confident the installation is correct and are able to make an educated estimation of what the results for these tests will be. Test results coming from a qualified electrian submitting 70 - 80 of them a year will not get as much attention as the results you supply to the reci inspector.

From my experience it depends on the guy you get on the day. I have a feeling these inspectors may not be full time employee's of reci im not quite sure but, a friend of mine who had completed college but did not have the required insurance, reci membership etc was failed because the connectors he used to connect extra low voltage lights to their transformers were not ceramic he was aware of this but he used the plastic type to get the job completed on the day. He never thought the inspector would take down a light and inspect this but he did and my friend was in re-test city. So another visit from this inspector.

Also you cannot have any cables sticking out of the walls and say look the guy hasn't bought the electric shower yet but that is where it will go, you want everything to be terminated.

You will deffinetly have to get yourself a copy of ETCI National Wiring Rules if you do not have an electrician to do some hand-holding.

If you know an electrician who will look over your work at first and second fix stages and submit a cert on your behalf that would be the best situation. But not many people will do that. If your house burns down due to electrical fire the insurance company will lay the blame on this electrician.

I would not do this if I were you. I would look at plumbing the house before wiring it if your desire is to save money. You can do the work in such a way that the heating system is checked for leaks while the pipes are still exposed.
And guess what no plumbing inspector to get the water turned on! ! !


Im not going to make any assumptions about your level of electrical experience wiring a house is easy and boring to most electricians because wiring the next house will much the same as the last. What kind of electrical work have you done?

patrido

Thanks for all the responses - even the scornful and derisory ones

Jackz wrote:

I would not do this if I were you. I would look at plumbing the house before wiring it if your desire is to save money. You can do the work in such a way that the heating system is checked for leaks while the pipes are still exposed.
And guess what no plumbing inspector to get the water turned on! ! !

I would not touch the plumbing, because I don't have a sufficient understanding of it!

Jackz wrote:

Im not going to make any assumptions about your level of electrical experience wiring a house is easy and boring to most electricians because wiring the next house will much the same as the last. What kind of electrical work have you done?

I have a degree in engineering and worked with electrical engineers and electricians in a manufacturing environment for a number of years. I've wired some PLCs, motors, etc and done some domestic electrical work.

I'm well aware that does not make me and expert by any stretch, but I'm just saying that I'm not an accountant or a waiter, who is thinking "that looks easy" and is going to just wade in.

I have done extensive research and study on what's involved, and I know what I'm getting myself into.

My Dad wired his own house in the late 70s without ever having a problem, and in the last few years wired his holiday home, and got an electrician to test and certify it. He's going to help me out, as is my sister's partner who is an electrician (he works in manufacturing so he's not RECI).

I was just wondering if the route to getting certified is impossible, or just difficult (I can handle difficult).

Jackz

Hey buddy you should have pointed out your experience at the begining. My point was that if someone was a plugtop electrician plumbing a house would be a safer option than wiring one. Since you obviously are not that I think you have a good chance of getting this house certified. Considering you have your father onboard who managed to wire and certify his holiday home and your calling people scornful and derisory (not knowing the information you have now added) why are you asking the question you originaly posed?

gregos

I don't think he called anybody scornful or derisory. He called some of the replies scornful and derisory. (Which they were, fair play to them, and that's not a criticism.)

Jackz

I think if patrido was clear about his qualifications and the experience of the people who will assist him he would not of received scornful or derisory replies.

rooferpete and kadman give helpful advice to plenty of people here ( I read alot without saying much maybe im greedy ) the give their time and experience on a daily basis. I think they are right to put off 99% percent of people who ask the question: "Should I wire my own house?"

prospect

My Brother in law wired my house.
He is a fully qualified electrician, but has been working in a different job for the last couple of years.

We got a RECI guy into to sign off, and a few things had to be changed because the rules and regulations had been upgraded since he had last practised. Just a gentle warning.

rooferPete

Hi Patrido,

Please when asking a question that you want honest answers or answers based on experiencing to, leave your imaginary *Friend* in another room.

Kadman replied to me a little off topic but in fairness you did get great advice based on the information you provided, so what is wrong with a little banter between the people who took the time to answer your question ?

jackz gave great advice and it was based on the practical experience of a qualified electrician and the level of inspection the RECI inspector will sometimes go to.

You then start filling in the blanks when replying to those who were not trying to steer you wrong but help in any way they could.

In the 70's houses were wired using a simple loop that went back to a ceramic covered fuse that was screwed into the fuse board.

Today you have ring mains, Elcb's, Mcb's and God knows how many other CB's, well God and qualified Electricians.

So you wired a motor ? worked with Engineers ? why not call one of the Engineers who knows your capabilities and ask them to use their qualifications to over rule RECI ?

On your third post you think it's smart to tear apart a post to suit yourself ?

Wake up, there is a big bad world out there where you won't always be able to get away with using the anonymity this board affords you.

.

patrido

Hi All

I guess it was stupid to say "a friend", and I'm sorry if my reply offended anyone - I was given plenty of helpful advice and I am genuinely grateful for all replies. Talk about getting off on the wrong foot

Perhaps I could have phrased it differently (or not said it at all!), but what I meant by "derisory" were statements like "I know how to get burn marks off the wall and floors." and "What is small, black and sticks to the wall ???...". No offence taken though!

The reason I didn't state any experience or the level of help I would get was, that I wasn't looking for advice on whether people thought I was capable of doing the job. I was just trying to find out if anyone had gone a similar route and how they got certified, and I thought I could focus the conversation on that.

I think I will get an electrician to have a look at my design before I do anything. Then get him to check the work after the first fix and do the testing, before I get the RECI inspector out.

Thanks all,
pd

gamer

maybe u cud wire house ,get diy,electrical book,english rules are the same as ours,BUT get professional electrician to install and wire all mcbs ,and consumerunit,fusebox. go to esb website,,there is special regs re wiring if esb knocked off more than ,6 months.afaik ,any electrician registered with R.E.C.I . OR E.C.SS.A. CAN INSPECT YOUR GAFF ,and give u a COMPLETION CERT.u need cert to get esb switched on.cost cert plus installing consumer unit is 600approx,u may need to pay more to get him to inspect whole house,leave floorboards open,,up,,so he can inspect ALL WIRING,and dont even think of plastering over any wires ATALL.dont put in ducting and plaster over it ,he may want to open all ducting.

gamer

mcb fuseunit has to be earthed,,ie earth rod buried at least 4foot,with standard green terminal box,and earth wire run all the way to fuseboard.TO wire house average price is 5k or more,i think.that includes materials.get the green and yellow earth wire,theres electrical parts shop,near halfpenny bridge,McKennas.

kadman

Hi Patrido,

Regarding your first post on this thread, you asked if an unqualified sparks handy man should wire a house. My answer was no, and if you ask me the same question now, I'd still say no.

If you had outlined your engineering/electrical experience at the start I'd have said, you could probably do it.

My remark, although not directly to you, and could be considered light hearted banter had this sign after it BIG GRIN. Meant to be funny, sorry if you were offended by that.

I take the time to post, to help with queries, meet new posters, learn from others, and to have a bit of craic.

If you want serious, straight face the whole time, regarding timber, construction, joinery, cad, 3d solid modelling. Maybe you should e-mail me for no nonsense info consultation, at 50 Euro's an hour. I'm only kidding

Or maybe I should sling me hook and move to another forum :eek:

kadman

patrido

gamer wrote:

maybe u cud wire house ,get diy,electrical book,english rules are the same as ours,BUT get professional electrician to install and wire all mcbs ,and consumerunit,fusebox. go to esb website,,there is special regs re wiring if esb knocked off more than ,6 months.afaik ,any electrician registered with R.E.C.I . OR E.C.SS.A. CAN INSPECT YOUR GAFF ,and give u a COMPLETION CERT.u need cert to get esb switched on.cost cert plus installing consumer unit is 600approx,u may need to pay more to get him to inspect whole house,leave floorboards open,,up,,so he can inspect ALL WIRING,and dont even think of plastering over any wires ATALL.dont put in ducting and plaster over it ,he may want to open all ducting.

I like that suggestion - getting a pro to do the CU and paying him to inspect the lot, kind of a best of both worlds.

Cheers

FX Meister

I'm not sure how easy it will be to get an electrician to second fix a house that you have first fixed yourself. Too much of a pain in the ass sorting out your problems. As for Reci, for them to test your work is about €330, if there is a problem you have to pay the same for a retest when you fix it.

patrido

kadman wrote:

If you want serious, straight face the whole time, regarding timber, construction, joinery, cad, 3d solid modelling. Maybe you should e-mail me for no nonsense info consultation, at 50 Euro's an hour. I'm only kidding

Ok start the meter ...

Speaking of timber, are there any serious drawbacks to building a dormer "on top" of the rafters (doubled up, of course) versus, the "phone box" method, where the dormer is build from the floor up?

the phone box method is obviously much more stable and secure, but doesn't it affect where the outside studded walls can be located (they need to be much further inboard) ?

gamer

Your only hope is to do wiring yourself,is leave all floorboards up,open,ducts open,pay electrician to install consumerunit,and wire mcbs, and inspect EVERYTHING,and give you completion cert,he leaves it in to esbnetworks,ie HE gaurantees ,all work is in COMPLIANCE WITH 2005 electrical regulations,u can get 5ft earth rod buried underfloor near cu,many people have it outside front of gaff, u,ll see small green box ,4inch square approx.

gamer

its alot simpler to leave 1foot at least of all the wires hanging down ,where consumer unit is going ,let electrician wire it and wire all mcbs.i think he is supposed to test wires resistance values and earth value,to fill in cert as per regulations.

kmb

Interesting topic re.Wiring.
I have a question re.wiring,do downlighters require a earth to pass reci?Or do you just leave earth terminted in case of further use as a standard light fitting?

Regards kieran

FX Meister

It depends on the type of downlighter KMB, some of them require earth, like brass and some chrome ones and some of them don't. You can jut cut the earth back, just leave enough slack on the cable in case you change the light fitting in the future, cout off the old stripping and start again.