Break Down, outlook bad

prospect

My dad was driving home yesterday, and he heard a loud 'whoosh' type noise from the engine.
He then felt the power go from the car so pulled over. When he got out the engine sounded poorley, like a old diesel engine.
So he had it transported on a flat bed truck (see towing post ) to Airton Motors. They are telling him this morning that the cranhshaft is gone and the car needs a new engine :eek:
Anyone any ideas or thoughts on this.
The car is an 02 166 2.5L V6, with under 60K

kermit_ie

Alfa. Enough said!

What's Alfa's warranty these days? 2 or 3 years?

nellieswellies

Its not uncommon for an alfa to sound like a diesel I think I seen a post saying it was a variator?? problem. But if its loosing power/drive he could be snookerd. I'd still beintrested in seeing what an independant mechanic had to say about it as opposed to a dealer.

prospect

kermit_ie wrote:

Alfa. Enough said!

What's Alfa's warranty these days? 2 or 3 years?

3 years, but that expired in Feb

Problem aside, what a fab car, I loved it dearly, **Is there no crying emoticon**

prospect

nellieswellies wrote:

Its not uncommon for an alfa to sound like a diesel I think I seen a post saying it was a variator?? problem. But if its loosing power/drive he could be snookerd. I'd still beintrested in seeing what an independant mechanic had to say about it as opposed to a dealer.

It always sounded great, but this happened immediatly after the 'whoosh' /loss of power.
By old diesel, i mean it actually sounded like a tractor.

As for independant mechanic, the problem is moving the car from place to place.

pbergin

Alfa say that the belts should be changed every 5 years or 72k miles in the manuals, but they have since revised this to 3 years and 36k miles. Did he have this car from new? and was it always services in an Alfa garage? if so he might have some case against alfa for not changing the belts at 36k (Im guessing they werent changed).
But it really looks like he is going to have to buy a reconditioned engine and get it fitted big bucks.
I used Gerry Cambell, Ti Auto, Cowper St off North Circular Road dublin 7, ph 8386567 for work on my 156, by all reports he is the best independent alfa mechanic in dublin. I found him very good to deal with.

pbergin

Forgot to say.
The variator often goes on Alfas, this causes a Disel rattle sound when the car is started for a few seconds, it shouldnt cause any strange sound while the engine is running. If it does go, it should cause any damage to the engine.

Ernie Ball

Could the car drive at all afterwards? If not, sounds like a broken timing belt. And if it's that, depending on the clearances of the valves, they may all be bent or broken (the diesel sound might be them getting pounded).

comanche

Ernie Ball wrote:

Could the car drive at all afterwards? If not, sounds like a broken timing belt. And if it's that, depending on the clearances of the valves, they may all be bent or broken (the diesel sound might be them getting pounded).

Would have thought that if the timing belt whet the engine would stop running (specaturally), full stop. given that there is nothing to turn the cam rods?

If its only a few months out of warrenty and its a faulty part go back to Alfa the will prob still honour it to keep a happy custome - its only 3 months out of warrenty. However if its due to lack of maintance, I can't see that happening.

prospect

comanche wrote:

If its only a few months out of warrenty and its a faulty part go back to Alfa the will prob still honour it to keep a happy custome - its only 3 months out of warrenty. However if its due to lack of maintance, I can't see that happening.

I would like to think so, but seriously doubt it, if it meant a new engine!!!

@ pbergin:
What belt do you mean? This sounds interesting, and i would like to check out every course of action.

Regarding other info:
Yes he had the car from new, and it was always serviced by Alfa, mostly Tractamotors in Blanch, and Airton in Tallaght.
The car was drivable, but we just wern't comfortable driving it incase we did more harm than good.

Thanks all for your input.

pbergin

I know that Alfa used to only cover 12 months of the warrenty and then a private company covered the remaining 2 years and if there is any maintenance missed or delayed (e.g. a service 2kmiles late) they will say the warrenty was invalidated. So if the warrenty is up they will try their very best to get out of it. You will probably find this thread interesting http://tinyurl.com/89fzm

bazz26

Don't expect much sympathy from Alfa Romeo or their dealers.

From what I have heard about them their after sales service is disgraceful even when the car is still under warrenty.

pbergin

I think everyone has heard the same, that was my main concern when I bought my 156, but luckily nothing ever went wrong with my Alfa, it ran faultlessly for a few years and I just traded it in a few weeks ago for an Accord.

prospect

According to the Alfa garage, he has only seen this twice before, once when a car hit a serious flood, and once on a car that was 20K over its service interval.

My question, the car was serviced about 2 months / 2K Miles before this happened. Should there not have been some evidence of this 'impending doom' at this time that should have been spotted during the service? Metal filings in the oil maybe? Something this serious surely cannot arise, develop and execute itself in such a short period without any warning?
(Update, apparantly it is some bearings that are fried, related to the crankshaft!)

Ernie Ball

comanche wrote:

Would have thought that if the timing belt whet the engine would stop running (specaturally), full stop. given that there is nothing to turn the cam rods?

Right you are. Don't know what I was thinking. Though of course it could make a sound when the starter motor is turning it over.

I broke a timing belt once and it was a disaster. And, yes, the engine stopped in its tracks.

AMurphy

Silly questions Dept.

What exactly is "gone with the crankshaft". You say the car is driveable, so we can illiminate a broken timing belt.
A skipped tooth may be a possibility.... but rarely they skip one only.

Broken timing belt or a broken crankshaft, it will not run, nor turn over very well either.

Worn or Broken con rods are easy to detect, cause they clank like hell or leave a hole in the block.
Worn crank bearings, new crank & bearings + oil pump and off you go again.
If it has a worn/clanking bearing, better not to drive it, or you might have a hole in the block soon.

So as of this moment I have no really great idea what exactly is or went wrong with it, thus I'd be suspicious of the generic repair, "new engine required"

I would suggest a compression check, the "Whoosh" bit is interesting. Any sparkplugs missing or unscrwed?.
does this have a turbo?. if so, any bits of that missing.

check your oil pressure, with a gauge.
As for the valve adjusting mechanism, may it stripped a few teeth internally, leaving the camshafts out of alignment. (hint: Compression test).

prospect

We contacted the fleet sales manager on wednesday, who is constantly trying to get our work fleet contract. Made our case to him regarding this issue, and the TERRIBLE standard of service.

Today, we were contacted back by the original technical guy, a complete reversal of attitude.
We are now getting a free loan car until this is sorted (156 1.9 JTD), and they are ruling out a small gap in service intervals as the cause (which they had previously tried to blame).

Will keep you up to date, but it is looking like a case of 'Who you Know, not What you Know'

Thanks to ciarsd for the info and support you pm'd me.

ciarsd

prospect wrote:

Thanks to ciarsd for the info and support you pm'd me.

not at all prospect, its typical of this country to have to use the likes of fleet contracts to make your argument or get what your entitled to.

a little bit of questioning & non aggressive attitude to make your point goes a long way with the garages.