Should the unions control the decisions on Dublin airport ?

Rock Climber

Now that we have finally a decision on a new terminal for Dublin Airport, its clear that Bertie has squirmed and knelt before the unions again and wants the decisions made for the airport to be cleared by the unions first and not by its customers.

This decision making process means we have an airport that would look at home in 1970's russia and a queue in security that will soon stretch to the car parks.

2009 , they say we'll have a new terminal now, with yesterdays decision... 2019 anyone?

Nuttzz

Sadly Public sector unions have us by the balls, look at bench marking and now public sector pay is 10% higher than private sector pay, can we have rerun the benchmarking process again to lower public sector pay? I dont bloody think so!

The only union worth its salt is the INO imho

Andrew 83

Surely the workers are those who will be most affected by whatever is done at the airport. They have to be there everyday so I would say of course they should have a say.

That those in the public sector get good pay isn't a negative thing, it's positive. Benchmarking has at times restricted the amount of pay public servants get in relation to those doing similar jobs in the private sector of some professions so that it sometimes is the toher way around isn't a reason to lower pay.

And finally I know a couple of people who've been to the airport in the last few weeks and none said it took them that long to get through security. The only new measure any of tehm pointed to was having to have your shoes scanned and that's been the practice in America for quite a while.

Andrew 83

Andrew 83 wrote:

And finally I know a couple of people who've been to the airport in the last few weeks and none said it took them that long to get through security. The only new measure any of tehm pointed to was having to have your shoes scanned and that's been the practice in America for quite a while.

Took me about an hour a few weeks ago, and that wasnt at a peak time, thought the airport was pretty crowded.
Schippol takes 15 minutes max but average 5 minutes and they were also recently subjected to the same audit as Dublin, yet it is one of the largest airports in the world.
Heathrow took me about 2 minutes when connecting.

As regards the new terminal,I heard an economist on RTÉ this morning saying it was like telling someone that wanted to build a small towns second hotel, that it had to be built by the owner of the towns other hotel and that they would have to be in for a say in the running of it.

My hunch is that, Ahern knows this is going to end up in the Euro court for flaunting competition laws and he wants them to rule on it so he can get off the hook and have a get out clause when being pressured by the unions.

Padraig Mor

Andrew 83 wrote:

Surely the workers are those who will be most affected by whatever is done at the airport. They have to be there everyday so I would say of course they should have a say.

That those in the public sector get good pay isn't a negative thing, it's positive. Benchmarking has at times restricted the amount of pay public servants get in relation to those doing similar jobs in the private sector of some professions so that it sometimes is the toher way around isn't a reason to lower pay.

And finally I know a couple of people who've been to the airport in the last few weeks and none said it took them that long to get through security. The only new measure any of tehm pointed to was having to have your shoes scanned and that's been the practice in America for quite a while.

The airport is there for its customers and they are the ones suffering from the current mismanagement. Perhaps if the workers just got on with doing the jobs they are being paid to do things might improve there. If they don't like it, get a job somewhere else.

Re: public sector workers getting paid less than private sector counterparts - so what? That's their problem, they're not forced to work there. As above, if they don't like it, go somewhere else. I'm sure there's plenty of people who'd snap up their pension entitlements. BTW I say this as a public sector worker myself.

mike65

"Control the decisions...?"

Fecks sake, get them round for beer and sandwiches. Of all the options that could have been chosen they've arguably gone for the worst.

The Union leadership at the airport should be used as 747 wheel chocks.

Mike.

cdebru

mike65 wrote:

"

The Union leadership at the airport should be used as 747 wheel chocks.

Mike.

why the union leadership is there to look out for the workers they represent not to line micheal olearys or the mcevadys pockets

the unions should do what ever is the best interest of the workers they represent
what good would the union be if they lay down and accepted everytime the PDs want to sell something off or give it away


what i find more interesting in this is that FF have called the PDs bluff I think this is the beginning of the end of this coalition
FF played hardball and won

Bertie had prepared for a no confidence vote he had refused FF tds that wanted to be paired this week and ordered all FF tds to be around leinster house wednesday and thursday

no doubt he had the independent FFers on standby and made it clear to the PDs that they could go if they wished

the PDs backed down but they will be waiting for bertie in the long grass i would imagine

MrPudding

Does anyone think this decision could survive a legal challenge?

MrP

Andrew 83

Earthman wrote:

As regards the new terminal,I heard an economist on RTÉ this morning saying it was like telling someone that wanted to build a small towns second hotel, that it had to be built by the owner of the towns other hotel and that they would have to be in for a say in the running of it.

This isn't a second airport, it's an extension to the existing one. Surely it's more like telling the hotel owner that you're going to expand their hotel but give it to someone else to operate and that rather than pooling your resources and working together you've to fight for customers.

I think the point is effeciency, something which is often alien to monopolies but essential for competitive environments.

It's not "their" airport, its the customers airport and the customers are getting a bad deal at the moment, with a crowded ineffecient expensive airport.

cdebru

MrPudding wrote:

Does anyone think this decision could survive a legal challenge?

MrP

yes unless each individual terminal in each airport in the EU has to be operated by different companies

like heathrow which has 4 terminals

Boggle

Surely the workers are those who will be most affected by whatever is done at the airport. They have to be there everyday so I would say of course they should have a say.

The only say you get in a job is whether you want to work there under those conditions. If there is a terminal then they need staff - if the wages aren't up to par then they can work in the other terminal...

Or better yet get a different job!

Andrew 83

It should also be kept in mind that according to the papers (as I'm not an expert in privatisation of airports I'll bow to their knowledge) no project of the kind envisioned by the PDs has ever been a success in any other airport.

cdebru

Boggle wrote:

The only say you get in a job is whether you want to work there under those conditions. If there is a terminal then they need staff - if the wages aren't up to par then they can work in the other terminal...

Or better yet get a different job!

no that migh t be the only say you get in your job or perhaps that is the way you would like it to be

Metrobest

I wish Bertie Ahern would have some bottle. He's been in power now for years; his position in North Dublin is secure. It's time he faced down trade unions in this country once and for all.

Everyone I've passed through the airport recently it's been an awful experience. Long queues, malfunctioning ATMs, terrible security delays, terrible baggage hall. Blame must fall on the DAA's shoulders as they preside over this shambles. And yet Bertie is keen to give this innefficient monopoly lebensraum. Unbelievable.

Aviation is changing. Dublin's future lies in the short-haul, European market. Any terminal must take heed of what the airlines are saying: they want simple, efficient, cheap facilites where plans can achieve quick turnaround quickly. Why does my gut feeling tell me the DAA will ignore this reality and built a grandiose marble palace that nobody needs or wants?

Margaret Thatcher had a battle in the 80s to face down the trade unions. She won. Looking back on it today, she did the right thing; she recognised that the trade unions were dinasours nostalgically clinging to the notion that you started a job at 21, stayed there for life, and accumulated all sorts of perks and "rights." Ireland is facing disaster as the public sector refuses to reform, refuses to recognise reality, and as a result, Ireland's competitiveness is being imploded. Bertie has a lot to do. The first thing should be an independently owned and run terminal for Dublin airport.

Boggle

no that migh t be the only say you get in your job or perhaps that is the way you would like it to be

Well I don't know many engineers that can stand on a picket as most multi-nationals despise unions.

The terms and conditions of employment are those which I knowingly entered into - I may bitch about the poor wages here but at the end of the day its up to me to decide when the job I'm in no longer meets my needs - in which case they can either try to keep me or let me move on...

... the same goes for airport staff - they knew the terms of employment when they started so why these constants threats of industrial unrest? Money no longer meets your needs?? Get a new job...!

invincibleirish

anyone get the vibe that this thread is just a cover to knock the unions which has always been a popular sport on this forum, takes me back to an excellant post from another thread a while back where someone in jest proposed that the mayday be abolished and a pro business day be held instead.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Victor

To be honest all that needed to be done was make a decision to build, screw the details*, they can come later.

I'm not saying details aren't important, but they should be in proportion.

invincibleirish

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

wasnt Toronto the first? its been mentioned in the papers that they did exactly what was proposed for Dublin airport and it proved unsuccessful.

cdebru

Boggle wrote:

Well I don't know many engineers that can stand on a picket as most multi-nationals despise unions.

The terms and conditions of employment are those which I knowingly entered into - I may bitch about the poor wages here but at the end of the day its up to me to decide when the job I'm in no longer meets my needs - in which case they can either try to keep me or let me move on...

... the same goes for airport staff - they knew the terms of employment when they started so why these constants threats of industrial unrest? Money no longer meets your needs?? Get a new job...!

that is your choice that you either dont join a union or choose to be in a company were you cant

you are actually arguing against yourself saying they knew what the terms and conditions were before they joined
that would mean if they cannot take industrial action to improve their terms and conditions others cannot take actions that would undermine those terms and conditions
and everyone would be stuck in a limbo of the exact same terms and conditions as the day they joined unless the employer decided off his own back to improve them

Hobbes

I'm wondering if there is other influences involved. You look around Dublin airport and there are two major hotels being built and two others just recently built.

Victor

Hobbes wrote:

I'm wondering if there is other influences involved. You look around Dublin airport and there are two major hotels being built and two others just recently built.

Ok, join the dots for me. :eek: