Garda crackdown on road deaths

a_ominous

The headline story on radio earlier this morning was that the gardai are going to crack down on motoring offences for 48 hours, Thursday and Friday, in response to the increasing number of road fatalaties. They're going for a high visibility effort, will use the copper chopper if needs be to crack down on speeding, drunk driving, non-wearing of seatbelts and other unspecified minor offences.

And the news reports stated there would be increased effort on the main national routes. Must have missed the reporting of _those_ RTAs. Wonder what percentage of deaths happen on the national routes.

I'm wondering why? The deaths are happening at the weekends, so why aren't they holding off until the weekend? Garda overtime budget might be cancelled. Probably didn't get enough work over the May Day weekend.

I agree they need high visibility to get people to react and comply with the rules of the road. None of this hiding behind a hedge crap, or using unmarked vans. That's only a money-making racket.

Want to crack down on drunk driving? Get a gada car down to every pub car park on a Friday and Saturday night. Keep the car for an hour before closing time. Can have extra effect of being a deterrent to drunken brawls.

Now I wish this dang hay fever would go!

egan007

You mean they are actually going to do their job for 48hours!!! IMPRESSIVE!

Keyzer

egan007 wrote:

You mean they are actually going to do their job for 48hours!!! IMPRESSIVE!

Lol, then they'll go back to drinking coffee and eating donuts....

Police presence on the roads here is almost non-existant.
Combined with the fact that anyone can get in a car here and drive without having done their test and your bound to have a recipe for disaster...

I heard a statistic a while ago that you have a 1 in 1800 chance of being caught doing something you shouldn't be doing on the roads... From what I have seen over the last couple of months, I would definitely agree with this.

embraer170

Has anyone ever seen them checking people's speeds in a 50km/h zone or on a secondary route?
They only pick the very best streches of national primary route but seems you can speed everywhere else (including going through towns/villages) without the slightest worry.

magpie

Usual sh1te: Sitting on dual carriageways enforcing the pointless 50km/ph speed limits while meanwhile in deepest darkest mullah country they're bombing around at 160km/ph at 4 am on windey potholed mucktracks annihilating each other.

DubTony

I used the N11 three times yesterday. There was a speed check on the southbound carraigeway just after the Kilmacanogue (spelling?) 60 km/h section. Idiots in front were hammering the brakes as they accelerated into the 100 km/h section. Bloody dangerous.

Another speed check northbound on the M11 just before the new M50 junction (60km/h limit).

Gardai were extremely visible standing in the median (northbound) and on a straight stretch with lots of visibility (southbound).

I doubt they caught to many speeders. One of them was so bored he was kicking stones in the grass.

Tony

jesus_thats_gre

a_ominous wrote:

Want to crack down on drunk driving? Get a gada car down to every pub car park on a Friday and Saturday night. Keep the car for an hour before closing time. Can have extra effect of being a deterrent to drunken brawls.

Now I wish this dang hay fever would go!

So would you agree with increasing taxes to pay for all these Garda cars?

jman0

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

So would you agree with increasing taxes to pay for all these Garda cars?

motor tax yes absolutely.

embraer170

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

So would you agree with increasing taxes to pay for all these Garda cars?

Tax on alcohol, definitely.

magpie

They should tax hurleys and GAA merchandise to pay for Na Gardai Shickoloney.

Victor

And the news reports stated there would be increased effort on the main national routes. Must have missed the reporting of _those_ RTAs. Wonder what percentage of deaths happen on the national routes.

40+% of deaths, 40+% of traffic, 5% of roads. They are the most policeable roads. Should they hang around a bog boreen at 3am hoping to spot something.

I'm wondering why? The deaths are happening at the weekends, so why aren't they holding off until the weekend?

There was an element of PR in last weeks activities, I don't know if it was 100% traffic driven (armed robberies happen on Thursday and Friday). They may have been experimenting with deterrant advertising also.

Want to crack down on drunk driving? Get a gada car down to every pub car park on a Friday and Saturday night.

~11,000 gardaí, 10,500+ pubs. Thats pushing it.

Keep the car for an hour before closing time.

But drink drivers only leave after closing time.

magpie

40+% of deaths, 40+% of traffic, 5% of roads

OK, based on the NRA statistics http://www.nra.ie/PublicationsResources/DownloadableDocumentation/RoadSafety/d1736.PDF 42% of casualties happened on National Roads, but only 28% occured in urban areas. So why do the Guards always target Dublin?

Should they hang around a bog boreen at 3am hoping to spot something.

Given that the majority of fatal accidents occur between 9pm and 3 am, in rural locations, not on National roads, that would be a logical place to start, rather than enforcing pointless 50km/ph speed limits on dual carriageways in Dublin, don't you think?

Then again the stone-kicking donut munchers would have to get off their arses and and get stuck into their country cousins, rather than the soft option which is hounding 'speeding' motorists on some of the best roads in the country.

D'Peoples Voice

Victor wrote:

40+% of deaths, 40+% of traffic, 5% of roads.

I believe that every single road death and accident should be recorded properly because at the minute, we are told it's

speed

drink

tiredness at the wheel

dangerous road surface/layout

poor weather conditions

careless driving/human error

joyriding

heart attacks

mechanical fault

If we knew what is the true killer, THEN we might know how to deply our Gardai. Over 50% of deaths at the weekend between the hours of 9pm and 6am, is it the same for road injuries(which are the real cause for high insurance costs).

Every news report that comes out saying such a person died on the roads should be made disclose which of the above factors were the cause. Knowing the truth behind the statistics might drive home the message to people.

Look at the road type in the list of hotspots in Ireland as regards accidents
http://www.nra.ie/PublicationsResources/DownloadableDocumentation/RoadSafety/d1734.PDF
1998-2002
Road Carriageway Fatal/injury
N1 Dundalk town to Co. Down border Louth 13km Single 88 people
N2 M50 to Ashbourne Dublin / Meath 12km Single 72 people
N21 Tralee to Castleisland Kerry 16km Single 69 people
N25 Waterford to Kilmeadan Waterford 7km Single 37people
N52 Junction with R400 south of Mullingar 15km Single 25 people
N53 Dundalk town to Co. Armagh border Louth 13km Single 61people
N54 Monaghan town to Co. Fermanagh borde 21km Single 46 people
55 R394 Castlepollard Road to Edgeworthstown 19km Single 33 people
N75 Thurles to N8 Tipperary 9km Single 25 people
N78 Athy to R430 Newtown Cross Kildare 18km Single 35 people

Would these roads also correlate with where the gardai have the most checkpoints? :eek:

Victor

magpie wrote:

So why do the Guards always target Dublin?

I'm not sure if you are comparing like with like. Accidents are recorded by location, tickets by driver registration location and cars by car registration location. The three can not be directly compared.

Given that the majority of fatal accidents occur between 9pm and 3 am, in rural locations, not on National roads,

But given you can't have a garda everywhere, resources are best used (a) where there is the most traffic (b) where there is a pattern of offences (c) in places to keep peope on their toes.

Victor

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

If we knew what is the true killer, THEN we might know how to deply our Gardai.

There is no one "true killer". You list above are factors. However, most accidents happen

(a) on straight roads
(b) during daylight hours
(c) in dry conditions
(d) with drivers that are sober and awake

Only one thing needs to go wrong for disaster.

Over 50% of deaths at the weekend between the hours of 9pm and 6am, is it the same for road injuries(which are the real cause for high insurance costs).

Actually 6am has the fewest accident of any time of the day per hour. Per journey may be another matter.

Every news report that comes out saying such a person died on the roads should be made disclose which of the above factors were the cause. Knowing the truth behind the statistics might drive home the message to people.

What about due course, post mortems, coroner court, etc.?

Look at the road type in the list of hotspots in Ireland as regards accidents
http://www.nra.ie/PublicationsResources/DownloadableDocumentation/RoadSafety/d1734.PDF
1998-2002

They aren't the hotspots, they are the hotspots under one criteria. They indicate the rate of accidents, not the total number of accidents. If Jimbo kill himself on the 100m boreen to his farm, that would show up as the most dangerous road in the country according to those criteria. It's like ignoring investigating murders because there are more common assaults than murders. That said, that survey is a useful tool, but must be used in conjunction with other tools.

D'Peoples Voice

Victor wrote:

There is no one "true killer". You list above are factors. However, most accidents happen

(a) on straight roads
(b) during daylight hours
(c) in dry conditions
(d) with drivers that are sober and awake

Only one thing needs to go wrong for disaster.

What about due course, post mortems, coroner court, etc.?

These are never published, if you asked a sample of the populaiton how many road deaths were there last year from drink driving alone, no-one would have an idea! We all know that almost 400 people died on the roads, but no-one knows for definite that 200 or so died from drink related accidents. Now there is speculation......

Victor wrote:

Look at the road type in the list of hotspots in Ireland as regards accidents
http://www.nra.ie/PublicationsResources/DownloadableDocumentation/RoadSafety/d1734.PDF
1998-2002

They aren't the hotspots, they are the hotspots under one criteria. They indicate the rate of accidents, not the total number of accidents. That said, that survey is a useful tool, but must be used in conjunction with other tools.

The one thing this survey does remind us is the blatantly obvious fact that single lane carriageways have a higher accident rate than dual carriageways/motorways. What's that Ted, we are still building single lane carriageways between large towns like Tralee and Killarney? Yes Dougal we are, because in the short term they save money!

BTW Victor, I believe that the rate is more useful than the numbers. Someone saying 100 have died on such a road in Dublin over the past 20 years makes that road more dangerous than one in Leitrim where only 5 people have died over the same period, does not take into account how many people drive on that road in Dublin and NEVER have an accident.
It reminds me of that plane crash argument and people saying how X die from plane crashes each year, which means very little when you consider how many travel by air.
Absolute numbers is only something opposition policticians use, they say the NUMBER road deaths are higher now than in 1984 or 1944, hence this government are dreadful. Of course any rational person would expect given the increase in road users, that the numbers would INCREASE but the rate per head of road user DECREASE, even if we have better roads!

Victor

I can understand and accept (with regret) an increase in road deaths in line with an increase in population.

However I don't accept an increase in road deaths in line with an increase in car ownership or mileage which is largely based on people commuting excessive distances to work or leisure. But some people will try to convince us the rate per km is going down, when the number of deaths is static.

The one thing this survey does remind us is the blatantly obvious fact that single lane carriageways have a higher accident rate than dual carriageways/motorways. What's that Ted, we are still building single lane carriageways between large towns like Tralee and Killarney? Yes Dougal we are, because in the short term they save money!

There is a finite amount of money. Making dual carraigeways of every road would cost in the order of €500,000,000,000 which is the entire government budget for 10+ years, cover 5% of the country .... and people would still die.

Macy

My biggest problem with any Garda crackdown on the roads is that it's all about catching people, not slowing them down or changing their driving habits.

They'd slow people down a hell of a lot more just driving up and down the dual carriageways/ motorways, rather than hiding behind a hedge or sitting in a GATSO van.

MrPudding

Macy wrote:

My biggest problem with any Garda crackdown on the roads is that it's all about catching people, not slowing them down or changing their driving habits.

If you got caught speeding a few times and got penalty points would that not slow you down? Getting banned from driving certainly would.

Macy wrote:

They'd slow people down a hell of a lot more just driving up and down the dual carriageways/ motorways, rather than hiding behind a hedge or sitting in a GATSO van.

I agree. The constant checks on safe roads with reasonable safetly records is very annoying. I would like to see fixed highly obvious & functioning speed cameras at accident blackspots to slow people down, not catch them.

If the private speed checking comes into force I hope we will see a change in how speed checks are carried out. Apparently it will be set up in such a way that the contractors will be paid for the amount of checks they carry out, not the number of speeders they catch. There will be no payments tied to the number of speeders caught. Also, the locations and times of speed checks are supposed to be related to the locations and times where most fatalities occur. This would mean a major reduction in checks on dual carriageways and motorways in general and an increase in checks on smaller roads especially late into the night. If the private contractor decided to spend all day on the N11 he simply would not get paid.

I heard this on a radio programme. The speakers were representatives from the NSC & the gardai. Of course they will probably fcuk it up, but I am sure you will agree if they implement it the way they say they want to it will be a good thing.

MrP

Macy

Not sure I buy the arguement about points slowing you down. Maybe if you were getting up to 6 or 8 points, but 2 or 4 I'm not convinced. However, still think more effective prevention is more visible presence to slow people down not to catch them.

If they implement it in that way, with highly visible camera's/ GATSO vans then I wouldn't have a problem. However, surely any payment based on number of checks will still mean motorways and dual carriageways? It should be a contract based on hours in operation?

jman0

Macy wrote:

Not sure I buy the arguement about points slowing you down. Maybe if you were getting up to 6 or 8 points, but 2 or 4 I'm not convinced. However, still think more effective prevention is more visible presence to slow people down not to catch them.

If they implement it in that way, with highly visible camera's/ GATSO vans then I wouldn't have a problem. However, surely any payment based on number of checks will still mean motorways and dual carriageways? It should be a contract based on hours in operation?

But isn't it a pathetic state of affairs that all this crap is even being discussed?
I don't know about you but i hate having to navigate those speed bumps on every residential bleedin road. But you know, the behavior of drivers makes them necessary. Unfortunately even the legal driver and emergency service vehicles are also affected.
It'd be great if cars were only capable of a max speed of 50kph on roads designated for that speed. Maybe a bit of technology is in order.
Ultimately we have to take decisions out of driver's hands, apparently.

I propose a more stringent driving test: where we connect a gps unit onto the car and monitor driver behavior for a month or 2, if all goes well and if they can provide a detailed written justification for driving that vehicle, maybe, MAYBE they're good to go.

MrPudding

Macy wrote:

If they implement it in that way, with highly visible camera's/ GATSO vans then I wouldn't have a problem. However, surely any payment based on number of checks will still mean motorways and dual carriageways? It should be a contract based on hours in operation?

Like I said. If it is implemented the way these guys said they wanted it to be a contractor that spends all week on the motorway will not get paid. If 2% of fatalities occur on the motorway then 2% of checks shoul dbe carried out there. Any checks over the 2% and the contractor does not get paid.

MrP

mike65

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

ILook at the road type in the list of hotspots in Ireland as regards accidents
http://www.nra.ie/PublicationsResources/DownloadableDocumentation/RoadSafety/d1734.PDF
1998-2002
Road Carriageway Fatal/injury
N1 Dundalk town to Co. Down border Louth 13km Single 88 people
N2 M50 to Ashbourne Dublin / Meath 12km Single 72 people
N21 Tralee to Castleisland Kerry 16km Single 69 people
N25 Waterford to Kilmeadan Waterford 7km Single 37people
N52 Junction with R400 south of Mullingar 15km Single 25 people
N53 Dundalk town to Co. Armagh border Louth 13km Single 61people
N54 Monaghan town to Co. Fermanagh borde 21km Single 46 people
55 R394 Castlepollard Road to Edgeworthstown 19km Single 33 people
N75 Thurles to N8 Tipperary 9km Single 25 people
N78 Athy to R430 Newtown Cross Kildare 18km Single 35 people

Would these roads also correlate with where the gardai have the most checkpoints? :eek:

I travel the N25 Waterford-Kilmeaden section 10 times a week minimum. I can't recall having ever seen a Garda checkpoint. If there was a checkpoint the traffic tailback would quickly become unfeasibly long.

Mike.

Victor

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

Victor, you're not seriously telling me that having more people on the road will not cause more deaths.

You miss the point.

Group A, populations say 1 million, lives 1km from their workplace. They travel 2 million km per day, about 440 million km per year. 50 people in group A die in road accidents. 0.11 deaths per million km.

Group B, populations say 1 million, lives 10km from their workplace. They travel 20 million km per day, about 4,400 million km per year. 100 people in group B die in road accidents. 002 deaths per million km.

Using the deaths per km criteria, it is safer to be in group B.

gerrydublin

Macy wrote:

Not sure I buy the arguement about points slowing you down. Maybe if you were getting up to 6 or 8 points, but 2 or 4 I'm not convinced. However, still think more effective prevention is more visible presence to slow people down not to catch them.

If they implement it in that way, with highly visible camera's/ GATSO vans then I wouldn't have a problem. However, surely any payment based on number of checks will still mean motorways and dual carriageways? It should be a contract based on hours in operation?

One thing I have to add to this, and I'm going to make the mother of all assumptions.
If the roads that have the highest accident rate are those between Dublin and Belfast/Derry, then is it possible many of these accidents are caused by UK drivers. Perhaps they KNOW that being caught by the Gardai is of little concern, because they can't be forced to return to this jurisdiction for any future court case. So maybe, we may need to look at solving this, or is it just a freak coincidence that many of the most dangerous roads are on the way to the UK?

mike65

You're right the Louth/Meath police area has the highest fatality rate in the country I belive.

As far as I know the "powers that be" are addresing the issue of cross border summonds.

Mike.