1X22 - "Born To Run" [**SPOILERS WITHIN**]

Basq

---- WARNING: THIS THREAD MAY (AND PROBABLY WILL) CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "BORN TO RUN" ----

Episode Title: "Born To Run"
Original Airdate: May 11th 2005

Synopsis (from TVToMe):
Jack suspects foul play when Michael becomes violently ill while building the raft. Meanwhile a secret from Kate's past is revealed, the mysterious hatch is shown to a few of the survivors, and Walt gives Locke a warning.

Next New Episode: 1X23 - "Exodus, Part 1" - 18th May 2005

steveland?

May wanna stick up a poll there basquille for when everyone's seen it...

I can't wait to see this episode

Possibly get to see the hatch being opened and also the future doesn't look too bright for poor old Michael

Basq

steveland? wrote:

May wanna stick up a poll there basquille for when everyone's seen it...

Yeah.. thought of this not long after i posted it.

But went into edit it there and got no option for a poll. Strange! I've edited and put in polls before.

May be something to do with it being a Hosted Forum? Do you have priveleges as mod to put it in there? If so, go on ahead!!

steveland?

Up the top of the page at Thread tools or somewhere it should be.. I can't seem to add a poll myself... odd that

Basq

Yeah.. it would typically be underneath the post you're editing in 'Miscelleanous Options' but not displayed in mine!

sionnach

just watched episode 22 there

not a great episode imo, nothing of any consequence really happens except walt's warning to locke, walt's statement that he and his dad have to go on the boat could also be based on whatever super powers he has. The focus of the episode was finding out more about freckles. I hope the next one has some decent hatch action

Kazaanova

I thought it was OK. The calm before the storm and all. I didnt like Kates flashback that much, but the raft stuff was good. I hate the way Sawyer gets the blame for everything.

As for Waltes warning and saying "Yes we do", it makes a lot more sense if you see the promo for next weeks episode.

Basq

1X22 - "Born To Run"

OK, a pretty average episode. Mainly due to the lack of action and no real exciting revelations, which i didn't expect from the penultimate to the 1st season!

'The House of The Rising Sun' is still my least favourite episode.. but i honestly didn't there was any real bad episodes in the series. Just some weaker ones!

Anyways, back to the topic... what i did like about this episode:

- The opening.. was weird to see a opening to a flashback! Don't see that too often. It's normally either a recap of previous episodes, straight to the happenings on the island or (as in earlier episodes), a close-up of a eye (one of the small things i loved in early episodes)!!

- Kate and Sawyer... i love theirs scenes together! The way they play off each other with Sawyer's pet names ("freckles", "pudding")! Whether it's a confrontation or a simple chat, their scenes together are always something special!

- Mr. Artz - a brief but quite engaging introduction! - "I'm a doctor.. and you'r e a hillbilly!"

- "This is track 2, it's called 'Monster Eats The Pilot'!

- Walt.. for 2 defining moments. Firstly, when Locke touched his hand, he suddently knew all about the hatch and Locke's plans for it. And for his premonition for bad things to come.

Judging from the promo, next week should be absolutely brillant!!

Watch the excellent promo for 'Exodus, Part 2' here !

PS - just realised how cool it is to have our own 'Lost' forum! :cool:

monkeyfudge

I thought it was a very good episode.

There wasn't alot to the back story of the little plane though. But I guess we'll be seeing Tom again in future flashbacks. I liked the scene with the mother, it was very creepy how she reacted to seeing Kate. That scene and the scene where Walt says "Don't open it." really sent shivers up my spine.

It was a bit odd that Sayid hasn't spotted the numbers on the Hatch yet, isn't it? You'd think he'd have given it a full visual inspection.

Oh, and a poll would be nice if we can get it working... it worked very well in the Battlestar Galactia forum.

steveland?

Good episode, although I'm not too big a fan of Kate-centric episodes... she's one of my least favourite characters (Mr. Self Righteous Jack is my least favourite)

Some good points:

* Hurley: "How am I supposed to keep track of what people know... Steve didn't even know about the polar bear" Nice little random name there...

* Walt... how ominous

* Kate's mother... just weird...

* Sawyer was great in this episode... he's fast becoming one of my favourite characters cos for a while there it looked like he was gonna become a nice guy but no...

Anyways yeh... good episode but the preview for next weeks nearly made me mess the keyboard...

Basq

monkeyfudge wrote:

..I liked the scene with the mother, it was very creepy how she reacted to seeing Kate..

Did anyone else except me notice that Kate's mom was played by the blonde aunt from 'Sabrina The Teenage Witch'? She looked very different but i recognised her name at the start!

monkeyfudge wrote:

It was a bit odd that Sayid hasn't spotted the numbers on the Hatch yet, isn't it? You'd think he'd have given it a full visual inspection.

True.. but if you look at the promo, i think they're leaving that that til next week when Hurley stumbles across the hatch. He won't miss those numbers anyways!

monkeyfudge wrote:

Oh, and a poll would be nice if we can get it working... it worked very well in the Battlestar Galactia forum.

Yeah.. that was my bad!

A poll can be included in a New Thread no problem but an existing thread cannot be edited to include a poll after it has been posted!..

.. ah well, we all know for the future now anyways!

Basq

steveland? wrote:

* Hurley: "How am I supposed to keep track of what people know... Steve didn't even know about the polar bear" Nice little random name there...

Yeah.. also liked that little nod to Steve!

steveland?

basquille wrote:

Yeah.. also liked that little nod to Steve!

I feel so special:)

ixoy

Felt a bit too much like padding this week as we prepare for a finale. Is anyone else a bit pissed off with the way Kate gets treated versus Sawyer? Sawyer is the black-sheep yet Kate, embodying many of his same qualities except she's more self righteous about it, seems to get off.

This week she refused to admit any culpability for her acts. She never admitted it was her idea to poison for example. She didn't apologise for desecrating a dead woman's passport and refused - once again to explain her past despite being caught red-handed. Sorry, I just cannot warm to her and her backstory just furthered my disdain - she made it, somehow, all about her. No wonder Zelda looked as bad as she did, raising a daughter like that.

Nor can I warm to Jack, just as our Stevie can't. I would've clapped aloud when Locke threw Jack's secret-keeping right back at him when Jack started bitching about the hatch, except for the fact I'd have woken my flatmate. Jack can't see his faults because, as said, he's too self righteous.

What did intrigue me was also that "Yes we do" comment from Walt. I originally thought that Michael had been infected with Rousseau's plague but perhaps the plague is about to return or somesuch. Or Walt won't be able to control his powers much longer...

Anyone wondering if, when the 4 leave, they somehow end up on the other side of the hatch?

madrab

can we ditch the spoiler tags on this thread for "shown" material yet?

if not
nice idea ixoy but it might be a bit too wierd for most people (not me as im a nerd )
the hatch must be opening soon for walt to be wanting to leave so soon

spoilers removed

doh.ie

OK, some thoughts on 1x22, “Born to Run”. No spoilers if you’ve seen the episode, but I’ve spoilerified it cos everyone else has been. (Wasn’t the point of the dedicated thread to stop us from having to do this at all? If the ep is one you haven’t seen, don’t read the thread and all that?) Those tags drive me nuts…

Brought the ep in to work today on video and had it on while I was typing this, so it is vaguely chronological. And long. (Sorry, really don’t know when to stop, but it’s that kind of show after all…)

* Kate – we know she was already on the run at the time she went to the hospital to see Tom and her mother, Diane. She said back in ep 12 that she “killed the man she loved”. Was this Tom or did she kill someone before him? I reckon it *was* Tom, but his death isn’t (fully) why she’s on the run, so she was lying to Jack when she said that was her crime. Also, it may now well be that she *did not* kill the guy who she shot in 1x12 – he may have been taken to hospital and lived. Otherwise, wouldn’t she have drunk twice (or once for each murder) during the ‘I never’ game in 1x16?

* Liked the intro with the motel flashback. Would have been just as good if it had kicked off with her ‘eye’ on the beach as early episodes tended to. (Basquille mentioned this above – likewise, it was one of my favourite little ‘Lost trademarks’ from the earlier episodes. They’re doing it much less lately, though.

* Mr Artz – considering he’s to be a new cast member, I was a little surprised by his low-key first appearance, especially since there was no follow-up to his scene. But it did serve a strong purpose – to launch the raft sooner. We’ll be expecting a lot more of Artz in the coming episodes… Interestingly, for now, Artz (Daniel Roebuck) is still a Guest Star. The Entertainment Weekly article said he’d be a full cast member by next season.

Also, er, Ian Somerhalder is still being credited…! Why?!

* Kate – why did she have to be called Kate for real?! OK, so her mother called her ‘Kathryn’, but I was half-hoping she’d have (like Sawyer) given a false name to the other islanders. But it turns out she was Kate as a child too, so no chance of revealing her real name to be something else down the line now. (

* Sun/Jin scenes and her motive – compelling and believable. Though slightly reminiscent of the ‘Who burnt the raft?’ plot,

* The hatch… More delay. At this stage, I’m planning to get T-shirts printed with a big metal door, with 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 on it and the words, “What’s in the hatch?!” on them. Cos I’m reckoning we may not find out this season at all… Unless… Hmm. If you’ve watch the “Exodus, Part I” trailer, I have a theory… Pop over to http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=255656 for speculation on what’s next.

* Sawyer – a new nickname for Jin – “Sulu” – funny. He was in overdrive with lots of references to Pudding/Freckles this week.

* Kate’s – “Sawyer, if I want your spot, I’ll get your spot” might have worked better (in terms of suspecting her of poisoning Michael) if she’s said, “Sawyer, if I want a spot on that boat, I’ll get it!”

* Michael’s cramps – thought Walt was behind it, not through poisoning, but through his mental abilities, unknown to him, for a while when I was watching it.

* Sayid – a little surprised he was so keen to *not* open the hatch. Would have thought his militaristic background would make him very curious about what the hell it is and why it is on an unpopulated island. But he didn’t seem interested at all. OK, so his logic about there not being a handle makes sense, but still… Seemed a bit out of character for him.

* Kate to Tom: “You think it’s still there?” / “What?” / “You know what?”
I don’t know if a time capsule we buried when we were ten would be the first thing I’d think of. The following music is very ominous as well, considering what it turned out to be. But then, this is Lost. I had hoped the capsule would have more significance, even to the point of having something relevant to the island in the future, but nope… The plane was the only important item plotwise, save their tape (nice idea, that) showing how they thought things would turn out. (More on the plane in a bit – something not right with that.)

* “How am I supposed to keep straight who knows what around here? I mean, Steve didn’t even know about the polar bear.” – Classic. Steve is turning into the kind of daft/fun thing some US shows do – like how we never saw Maris on Fraiser for yonks, or that guy on Home Improvement whose face was stupidly never seen, or Morn on DS9 who never spoke… Quite funny that. Especially if he turns out to be Scott...

* Charlie’s haircut while composing Track 2, “Monster Eats The Pilot” – glad this kind of thing is featuring. It may only be a month, but it’s important we see someone get a haircut or shave or wash clothes or whatever just to show that what we never normally see does take place.

* Kate wanting to run away when she was a kid – something important happened then (domestic violence?), but it’s not what has her on the run from the police. Which makes me wonder if she ultimately killed her father… Maybe not - her mother doesn’t seem too pleased to see her. One of the episode’s finer moments – truly heartbreaking and a bit scary too!

* Joanna’s passport – clever ploy, but surely unless she burnt a lot more than just the picture, any authorities who picked them up on the raft (should that ever happen) would be quick to figure out Kate wasn’t who she claimed. Joanna’s family might want to see her, for one, so Kate would have to flee very quickly. Equally, other raft sailors might hear Kate claim she was Joanna/or a made-up name and question why she was lying.

* Kate’s decision to run with Tom in the car – Kate was pretty foolish to run this time, and she is wholly to blame for Tom’s death. She must have known that with a police car blocking her exit and a trigger-happy trooper, she’d have little or no chance of getting away without injury to someone (even a passing car which she crashed into). She was very, very reckless, yet Tom seemed to understand, so the question remains – what did she do? Cos killing Tom is not it. It may be what she feels most guilty for, but it’s not why she was running from the law in Australia.

* OK, here’s a mystery. Kate *did not* take the plane from the car, so at some point down the line either the police put it in Safety Deposit Box 815, or she does. But if she does, she’ll have to get it from the police first. When I watched the episode first, I thought that maybe there was a brief shot of her grabbing it before she ran off, but she definitely did not. Plotwise, this must be intentional. So do we have an upcoming episode where she tries to get it back or finds out that it’s in the bank? Seems like a dodgy loose end to me, really, as I can’t see the resolution of why-she-didn’t-take-it being a very good story. (Unless she *did* take it and there was no second-unit shot of her hand grabbing it. The producers have revised the ‘We’re the survivors’ before. But it probably stands as is, and as such is a bit of a puzzling one.)

* Kate talked about what she “supposedly did.” Again, not likely Tom as the police investigation will show it was their bullets which killed him. OK, so he died *because* of Kate, but she didn’t kill him, per se. She was also convinced she was going to go to jail for it, regardless of any protestation. I liked how people turned away from her after her confession. More conflict among the characters makes for more drama, and from the look of there promo for “Exodus”, there’s lots to come.

* Sawyer’s “There’s nothing left worth staying for.” Poignant and simple. And I think it hit home for Kate.

* “We don’t have to go.” / “Yes,… we do.” Classic, coming from a kid who seemed to get a lot of info from Locke just touching his arm…

* Kate and Sun’s final scene. These two seem to really get each other, largely because so many others don’t get them. I liked how one person had not turned away from her.

Overall, one of so-so episodes, but pretty decent. Based on earlier posts (Basquille for one, but I remember others, probably from the old thread), people have widely varying degrees of favourite episodes. For example, “House of the Rising Sun” is one of my favourites, cos I think the intro scenes in Korea are beautifully shot, and there’s a decent amount of island action to further the plot. Other have not liked “Solitary”, but I thought the Nadia story and Rosseau’s adding to the mystery made that one of the better ones. And more recently, I thought “Do No Harm” was one of the worst of the lot, but others found it perfectly enjoyable. (That and “Hearts and Minds” are my two least favourites because neither flashback nor island story seemed to contribute much. OK, so Boone died and Turnip Head was born in 1x20, but it took ages for both and the flashback was very week. Likewise, 1x13 I loathe mostly because the salve-induced dream sequence was just plain frustrating and Lost is better than resorting that (especially two weeks after the Charlie death-that-wasn’t.)

Anyway, point being, it seems that it’s often character interests which dictates how we respond to an episode. I quite like Kate and so anything more with her backstory was going to be something I’d enjoy. (Though on the flipside, I found Jack’s first two stories very enjoyable and his third to be dreadful, so…)

Kind of ranting now, and this is too long as is… I’d give this a 7/10. It had nothing much new hatch-wise, but it did further a lot of the relationships between characters which made up for that. Plus, a little more information on Kate means we at least know what the plane means… (although I remain unconvinced that it was worth robbing a bank over.)

doh.ie

madrab wrote:

can we ditch the spoiler tags on this thread for "shown" material yet?

if not

nice idea ixoy but it might be a bit too wierd for most people (not me as im a nerd )
the hatch must be opening soon for walt to be wanting to leave so soon

Cool idea. Maybe they'll go off on the raft, go around the island, wash up on the other side - or maybe another island - and find a tunnel which leads back to the hatch... There must be a reason it only opens one way. I suspect Locke knows that well, but he's keeping schtum for now.

monkeyfudge

I don't mind dropping the spoiler tags as long as the promos aren't discussed, as I've never seen the point in watching them.

doh.ie

monkeyfudge wrote:

I don't mind dropping the spoiler tags as long as the promos aren't discussed, as I've never seen the point in watching them.

Agreed. We currently have a separate thread discussing the 1x23 promo anyway, and that's not spoilerified either. But it contains its information purely to its thread.

I think the thread itself should determine whether it contains spoilers or not, and the threads should be readable without them as long as it only discusses the BROADCAST episode. Future information should always be spoilerified, speculation need not be.

As for spoilers themselves, most US shows do tag these on the end (even thought 'cousins' episodes rarely have them attached.) I quite like them because they always generate interest, are always well produced and give the show an even more exciting 'can't wait' level. (Often it produces that on its own, of course.)

But US promos have, of late, gone a bit over the top in revealing information and while the recent Lost ones are not too bad, the earliest batch, pre-launch constantly used Charlie's "Guys, where are we?!" line in most of them. Pretty stupid, considering that was the end of the pilot - the most important 'hook' of all, something that shouldn't have been spoiled.

Thankfully, I hadn't seen a single promo when I saw the series on a screener last May, but had it been ruined like this, I'd have been furious.

So I agree that promos should never be discussed in the episode thread. (It may well be that some episodes do have them attached. Not sure what the policy should be in those cases. Probably best to pretend they weren't as some people will likely press stop at that point.)

On the whole, down with the spoiler tags....

steveland?

No need for spoilers if the title makes it clear that there are spoilers in it... (which this one does)

If someone reads it without having seen it it's their own fault...

ixoy

I didn't catch it, saw this elsewhere, but since noone else brought it up ... Kate's tape was recorded on August 15th, 1989. Written another way: 8/15/1989...

I assumed that Tom's items, on his death, were committed to some sort of bank. Kate, guilt growing, realised she wanted a piece of the man she helped kill and organised the raid to get it back, resulting in the robbery-gone-wrong and causing her to flee. This way we get to feel "sympathy" when it's revealed Kate did it all for love. Doesn't make me think she's any less of a bitch though

doh.ie

ixoy wrote:

I didn't catch it, saw this elsewhere, but since noone else brought it up ... Kate's tape was recorded on August 15th, 1989. Written another way: 8/15/1989...

Yep. Usual US way of doing dates - month first. Like how it's always 9/11, when over here (for a long time anyway), it was always called "September 11th". Changed at some point and now it's referred to as 9/11 everywhere.

ixoy wrote:

I assumed that Tom's items, on his death, were committed to some sort of bank. Kate, guilt growing, realised she wanted a piece of the man she helped kill and organised the raid to get it back, resulting in the robbery-gone-wrong and causing her to flee.

True, except she was already on the run before that... I reckon, as someone else said, it was a family thing. Not a murder, maybe, but something serious.

This way we get to feel "sympathy" when it's revealed Kate did it all for love. Doesn't make me think she's any less of a bitch though

LOL. You're right, though - they're not going to want to make people hate her. Pity, really, cos that's what good characters are made of. That we might have to live with a pre-meditated crime caused by her (beyond the robbery where she came off as a bit deluded) would be braver writing.

I don't think she's a bitch, but I also wouldn't trust her for a second. Not even if I needed her to sew up a wound on my back. She'd probably cause multiple stab wounds with the needle for that silver plane if I had it in my pocket.