Overclock or Upgrade - you decide!

Loobz

Hey peeps.

I dont know whether to overclock my existing P4 system or upgrade to AMD64. Maybe you guys can help.

My system spec:

P4 2.8ghz (800 fsb) with Zalman CNPS7700-AlCu
MSI 865PE NEO2-LS mainboard S478/800mhz
1 gig DDR OCZ ram (2 x 512) not sure of timings (can check later tonight)
128mb Radeon 9800 Pro with Artic cooler
120 gb sata hard drive (which will be formatted soon)
Case has 5 x 80 mm fans for cooling.
Im going to clean out the dust gathering on the fans/zalman soon also.

The thing is, I have had no previous experience with overclocking the CPU. Ive oc'd the radeon with AtiTool, not much. I know there are numerous guides to this on the net but I dont have the balls to try it myself without guidance from someone with experience who can physically show me what to do.

So I have a couple of options:

1) Leave as is and quit moaning

2) Overclock existing system with existing cooling if possible.

3) Overclock existing system with watercooling allowing a higher/quieter oc.

4) Sell my soul to the inevitability which is AMD64.

Which would be a better investment, decent watercooling kit or AMD64 mobo and cpu?

I think the system itself has a nice bit off oomph as it is, but could do with a boost with an oc. This is a longshot but if anyone would like to call around to my place and oc the pc, I would greatly appreciate it. I know this might sound like a strange request but I would benefit in two ways if this could happen:

1) The pc would be overclocked by someone who knows how to do it properly.

2) I can physically see and learn how to do it so next time I can do it too with Kandoo.

All help/ideas on this matter greatly appreciated lads.

Thanks.

Loobz

Oh, and what kind of oc's am I looking at roughly on air/water with the above spec. Thanks

WizZard

I was going to offer to call around until I looked at your location

Overclock as it is now, then see if you are happy with the results. Water will allow a better overclock, generally, but you would have to buy a WC kit. You don't need to spend anything, except time, to OC what you have at the moment.

Def clean the case since dust restricts airflow.
I'd go with option 2 for the moment at least.

Loobz

Cheers Wizzard.

Yeah, only wizz kids in the south east could do it due to travelling. I have a car and can collect whoever wherever (within reason).

I was thinking of option 2 myself. I could do with some 80mm filters for the fans, cleaning the case does my head in.

Mac daddy

Clock it -

I have roughly the same setup in one of the desktop upstairs -
Same Cpu in it -
Heatsink was almost the same i have the copper version instead of alu/copper one.
Ram i have in it Ocz 2x512Mb - Pc4000 Gold edition
Mobo is a asus p4p800d -
GFX is a 9800pro ==> XT modded
Have it running stable at 3.5Ghz no problems for the last 8 months

You should be able to manage at least 3.2 or 3.3 without to much problems.

Ciaran500

If your looking for more game performance it is the Raedon 9800 holding you back, not the P4.

gline

option 3 only if your ram is a decent speed, like PC3700 or above, preferably P4000+


Go for watercooling, its a good investment which can be moved to another system later if u eventually do upgrade and you can get a very decent overclock with the setup you have i'd say (if the ram is decent)

unkel

A. Not willing to spend money

Option 2. No brainer but two conditions must be met:

1. Fairly decent PSU
2. What is speed of your ram?

If your OCZ is PC4000 or thereabouts (as gline said) and your PSU is decent, you could get up to 3.5GHz STABLE on air on your rig if you're fairly lucky and at least 3.2-3.3 if you're unlucky

This would mean an enormous system speed boost for your system in general, but as Ciaran500 no doubt meant is that in the very latest games, the performance is much more directly related to the graphics card than to the cpu

Don't get anyone to do this overclock for you. Read up on it right here on boards and people will help you on the way. It is much more exciting and satisfying to find your way in the overclocking world yourself

B. Willing to spend money

Follow steps under A. + buy a mid-high end current gen graphics card and sell your 9800 here on boards for €100+ while you still can

sionnach

shoving on air filters isn't a great idea if you're going to start overclocking. Air filters will impede airflow quite a bit, lower airflow means a hotter system, add the extra heat of overclocking onto that and you could have problems. Just buy a can of compressed air and give your case a good clean every couple of months, it only takes a few minutes.

astec123

I have to admit that overclocking is overrated.The speed increases claimed are not recognisable really in the games, but make a huge impact in applications such as benchmarking, it is too far overrated, and now OC is all about how it did in a benchmark app not the net gain in the real world applications, it is also risky doing these things too. I would sod OC and upgrade, as if you fry something it wont work and wont make any net gain on selling it on, also the old system spec should subsidise most of the costs of a new system and therefore makes upgrading a more ideal prospect.

gline

astec123 wrote:

if you fry something it wont work and wont make any net gain on selling it on, .

its nearly impossible to "fry" something when overclcocking, unless using watercoolling or phasechange etc, only thing you can really do is raise vcore too much, just avoid that.

And there is much gain in overclocking when done right with the rite parts in your rig, you will notice general better system preformance with an extra 200mhz+

astec123

Coming from an overclocker that says very little, ever hear of a placibo?

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/index.cfm?go=discuss.thread&forumID=1&threadID=192528

This is just one of the 100s of sites with reference to the nul effects of OC.

unklerosco

I had a similar setup only with an asus P4C800(class mobo) on WC, was able to run stable at 3.6/3.7... Ur mobo may also hold u back from gaining an overclock aswell as a noticable speed increase. The 875 chipset is the one to have..

BloodBath

I have to admit that overclocking is overrated.The speed increases claimed are not recognisable really in the games, but make a huge impact in applications such as benchmarking, it is too far overrated, and now OC is all about how it did in a benchmark app not the net gain in the real world applications, it is also risky doing these things too. I would sod OC and upgrade, as if you fry something it wont work and wont make any net gain on selling it on, also the old system spec should subsidise most of the costs of a new system and therefore makes upgrading a more ideal prospect.

Coming from an overclocker that says very little, ever hear of a placibo?

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/index.cf...threadID=192528

This is just one of the 100s of sites with reference to the nul effects of OC.

No offence but your a retard if you think increasing his clock speed by 700mhz and his system fsb by maybe 200 will make no difference. 700mhz is 25% processor speed increase not even taking into account the increased fsb which would push the performance figure closer to 30%. You sound like someone who has never overclocked. Sure it's not going to add 30% performance to games but it will improve matters and really speed up other processor intensive apps like encoding. I'd advise you to read some decent articles on overclocking or actually try it yourself before giving advise.


BloodBath

gline

astec123 wrote:

Coming from an overclocker that says very little, ever hear of a placibo?

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/index.cfm?go=discuss.thread&forumID=1&threadID=192528

This is just one of the 100s of sites with reference to the nul effects of OC.

thats crap, overclocking is nearly the same as upgrading, you are getting the same or more preformance then physically changing the cpu. Thats like saying upgrading the cpu will not give you any preformance increase. crap

Loobz

First of all, thanks for all the positive advise. Ive never overclocked myself before, but tbh, I cant realy see my PC burst into a ball of flames before my eyes

In my bios, there are options to set Normal, High, Very high, Extreme (or something similar) which automaticall overclocks for me. Ive always left it at normal because when I built the pc at the beginning, I set it to high and the screen started randomly flickering. Would ye suggest using default oc like mentioned above or bypassing this and doing it manually?

My ram is 1 gig OCZ DDR 3200. (forgot to check timings last night, curse you United Offense, lol)
I have a 500 watt PSU also.

gline

your psu isnt qtec is it?? ,the ram may hold you back a bit, try manual overclocking first, ive never found thoose automatic overclocking settings to work good

Gilgamesh

Loobz wrote:

I was thinking of option 2 myself. I could do with some 80mm filters for the fans, cleaning the case does my head in.

you know that you can make the filters yourself, and VERY effective ones as well.

buy some Nylon stockings, cut out squares about half an inch bigger than the actual fan, then tape it to the fan frame on the OUTSIDE of it, and hey presto, your own dust filter.
workes extremely well trust me

Loobz

Nice tip Gilgamesh
Edit: Levicom 500 watt PSU

1 gig OCZ PC3200 Timing: 2-5-3-3-7

Just so ye know

gline

Loobz wrote:

Nice tip Gilgamesh
Not sure what make, deffo not QTec, will check later - cost me 120 yos in Peats a year ago (had the money and needed a psu).

probably thermaltake id say from peats, maybe

jessy

astec123 wrote:

Coming from an overclocker that says very little, ever hear of a placibo?

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/index.cfm?go=discuss.thread&forumID=1&threadID=192528

This is just one of the 100s of sites with reference to the nul effects of OC.

There obviously doing something wrong if no real improvements are got, instead of looking a the 100s of Negative OCing sites try looking at the 10000s of positive one, they cant all be wrong. My CPU running at 3.6 is considerably slower when ripping DVD’s than when it’s running at 4.3 (No placebo affects because a total encoding time is given when finished). You should try it some time.

j0e

thats a nice epenis u have jessy that oc done on air?

jessy

j0e wrote:

thats a nice epenis u have jessy that oc done on air?

No im on water cooling, although it did go to 4.1 on air but not to stable, very stable at 4.3 on water.

Loobz

I could also try flashing my 9800 pro to XT or is it worth it? Not sure what core I have, will need to dismantle the Artic Cooler to check. Its supposed to be 35, yeah?

Dman_15

it needs to be an r360 not 350.

There is no huge leap in performance. 2-3% tops

Loobz

R360, thats it. Its been so long since I read the article. Ah feck it, not bothered if thats the only performance increase tbh.

Drapper

Loobz wrote:

First of all, thanks for all the positive advise. Ive never overclocked myself before, but tbh, I cant realy see my PC burst into a ball of flames before my eyes

In my bios, there are options to set Normal, High, Very high, Extreme (or something similar) which automaticall overclocks for me. Ive always left it at normal because when I built the pc at the beginning, I set it to high and the screen started randomly flickering. Would ye suggest using default oc like mentioned above or bypassing this and doing it manually?

My ram is 1 gig OCZ DDR 3200. (forgot to check timings last night, curse you United Offense, lol)
I have a 500 watt PSU also.

I got a northwood P4 3.0ghz OC to 3.3ghz could go higher but my too I think is holdnig me back ! Same as yours ! Samsung 3200 1gb

My Mobo is an Asus P4P800Delux ......... the temp is little or no change ! the Asus Bios is so overclocking friendly !

Performance in 10% increase is noticible for game loading ect ...... but I got a Thermltake Shark with 2 very large fans back and froint and a good PSU fan !

Dont go too high as it might be good for a week but it will go drastically down hill if you dont know the thermal max on your chip

See attached

Loobz

Cheers Drapper. Will keep this in mind.

Just to clear things up, as Ive edited a few posts:

P4 2.8ghz (800 fsb) with Zalman CNPS7700-AlCu
MSI 865PE NEO2-LS mainboard S478/800mhz
1 gig OCZ PC3200 Timing: 2-5-3-3
128mb Radeon 9800 Pro with Artic cooler
120 gb sata hard drive (which will be formatted
Levicom 500 watt PSU
5 x 80mm fans in case

the raven

i'll just add to what the others are sayin, that you could definately get 600Mhz overclock or more if you improve the RAM. some quality brand PC4000 would do the job.

Loobz

On a side note, just saw this card on special on Komplett. Would it be worth upgrading from a 9800 pro to this, considering the recent shift to PCI-e and SLI? Any ideas on how it performs?

gline

looks good? how do the XL's compare to the pro's???