video card purchase help needed

pred racer

Im going to buy a video card and was wondering if anyone can help. I want to play games (esp doom3) on a 2.8g celeron with 512M mem and at the moment onboard graphics (muck). Ive been researching but the array of radeon/nvidia cards out there is daunting, their names or the info on them does not seem to signify how good/bad they are and basically im hoping that someone can steer me in the direction of a card that will suit my needs without (hopfully) breaking the bank. or if someone could point me towards a faq that would be fine.
Thanks.

KdjaCL

3 magic questions

1 Whats your motherboard (if you dont know the system number ie Dell 4200, Compaq 500)

2 How much you got ?

3 Do you have a credit card or access to one ?


kdjac

jessy

TBH if your getting a Gfx card especially for doom3 then get another 512 of RAM as well (it will help your cause). NVIDIA Cards perform better with Doom3 so i would recommend the 6800GT.

http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300895&cks=PRL


Or the x800xl which is excellent value

http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=308872&cks=PRL


I’m presuming you don’t have PCI-E.

uberpixie

pred racer wrote:

Im going to buy a video card and was wondering if anyone can help. I want to play games (esp doom3) on a 2.8g celeron with 512M mem and at the moment onboard graphics (muck). Ive been researching but the array of radeon/nvidia cards out there is daunting, their names or the info on them does not seem to signify how good/bad they are and basically im hoping that someone can steer me in the direction of a card that will suit my needs without (hopfully) breaking the bank. or if someone could point me towards a faq that would be fine.
Thanks.

You have on board gfx which is never a good sign.

Make sure you have an AGP or a pci express port that can take a new gfx card.

If you do have a look at an nvidia 6600gt. Best bang for the buck at the mo and can be got for just under €200 if you look hard.

jessy

uberpixie wrote:

can be got for just under €200 if you look hard.

Dont have to look that hard
see here

the 6600GT is a very Good Card for its price tag.

Some details on the 6600GT
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2277&p=5

pred racer

its an iqon mmbp912

any chance of getting one to do the job for nearer 100

have access to credit card etc

im already on the more mem thing figured it would be a good place to start.

thanks for the help guys/gals keep the suggestions coming

jessy

http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=122900&cks=PRL

its as good as youll get for the money

pred racer

jessy wrote:

http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=122900&cks=PRL

its as good as youll get for the money

Thanks jessy. I understand that u get what you pay for and I probably will spend whatever it takes. Im just like everyone else hoping that there is a magic solution out there for 50 quid. That card is exactly what I want to spend but would I be upgrading again in 2 months? if so Id probably spend the 200.


gotta play doom3!!!!!!! doom1 and 2 are the only vid games Ive ever played that could make me duck for a fireball!!!

KdjaCL

Afaik you have no AGP slot therefore is buggered.


Need a new motherboard before you can buy a graphics card, if its under warranty check to be 100% sure its a brownish slot above the White PCI slots.

Or call iqon (lol muppets) and ask them for your exact motherboard specification number, nearly sure its a Intel small form jobbie (bro has one)


in short your fcuked , upgrading is not an option without buying a new motherboard which will run your PCU and ram type oh and it has to be small form too.

/too the others who suggested cards for future reference make sure what you suggest can work in case the original poster buys it based on your recommendation.

kdjac

jessy

KdjaC wrote:

upgrading is not an option without buying a new motherboard which will run your PCU and ram type oh and it has to be small form too.

Why Small Form?? are you confusing it with the iqq541?

pred racer

KdjaC wrote:

Afaik you have no AGP slot therefore is buggered.

Are u serious?? Ive been out of the loop for a while but since they brought it in I dont rem ever seeing a mobo without an agp slot!! Ive sent them an email
to find out, and ill run sissoft on it when I get home. My better half bought me the computer and she's gonna kill me if she sees me ripping it apart!

KdjaCL

Get a screw driver and open it.

Its an Iqon with 64mb built in g card, bro has one same problem he bought a aldi special in the end as the upgrade was heartbreaking.

http://www.pcstore.ie/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=36

kdjac

pred racer

Cant. Im in work and wont be home till wed. Im fcuking gutted its the first time i havent had a pc I cobbled together and was looking forward to
none of those evenings with the thing in pieces around me muttering and scratching my head. looks like it all starts again. Cant blame herself she seen it in tescos and brought it home, it was a nice prezzie, how am i gonna tell her its s***e and i have to put loads more stuff in it???

pred racer

KdjaC wrote:

Afaik you have no AGP slot therefore is buggered.

kdjac

If you are right (and i have no reason to doubt that you are)
maybe this will be my next purchase

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=122526&cks=SPK
and this

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=301249&cks=PRL

and 512M of ram

so thats 240-250 quid I suppose it could be worse!

Nukem

Ahhhhh Fcek. Out with the soldering iron and stick an AGP slot into it. Only messing wouldnt do that unless your really stuck.

know its a push but go to the FS forum and try pick up a cheap mobo or gfx. Might strike lucky and get to play Doom III,especially if you plan on upgrading the card later on.

Nukem

pred racer

Thanks nukem, might just do that!
How can ya in all good concience sell a pc with no gfx slot,
on board me ars3.
I checked back and there is no way to find out what board is in that pc
without looking in.
might sell it to some other unfortunate in the buynsell and buy a new one.
some tasty pcs going for a decent price in fs forum.

uberpixie

Dont buy a b grade gfx card. It's not worth the risk.

You can pick up a 6600 128mb nivida new for €30 more.

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=307923&cks=PRL

Better idea than the 9600xt as nivida have the better open gl performance which makes a huge difference in doom 3.

(Doom 3 engine was really designed with nvidia gfx cards in mind)

There are much better games to upgrade a pc to play than doom 3 tbh :-)

best of luck.

RicardoSmith

If you don't need to play games then you don't need an AGP slot. End of story. So thats about 80% of the worlds PC's then.

You can pick up a 9800Pro for about 100 2nd hand, its better then the 9600xp and not much worse than a 6600GT, maybe 5-10% slower at worst. Games like HL2 are very playable with a budget gfx card, you don't always need a top notch card.

Though if you don't have a APG slot you might aswell stick to 2D games. Sorry.

uberpixie

RicardoSmith wrote:

If you don't need to play games then you don't need an AGP slot. End of story. So thats about 80% of the worlds PC's then.

You can pick up a 9800Pro for about 100 2nd hand, its better then the 9600xp and not much worse than a 6600GT, maybe 5-10% slower at worst. Games like HL2 are very playable with a budget gfx card, you don't always need a top notch card.

Though if you don't have a APG slot you might aswell stick to 2D games. Sorry.

If you look at the benchies their is a bit more than 10-15% performance.

Difference between a 9800 pro and a 6600gt is more like 10-15 frames in most games if not more.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1780529,00.asp

9800 pro performs closer to a 6600 than a 6600 gt.

RicardoSmith

uberpixie wrote:

If you look at the benchies their is a bit more than 10-15% performance.

Difference between a 9800 pro and a 6600gt is more like 10-15 frames in most games if not more.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1780529,00.asp

9800 pro performs closer to a 6600 than a 6600 gt.

Depends on the benchmark you are looking at, what game, what res and what settings from that same article...

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1780527,00.asp

HL2 1280x1024 with 4xAA 8xAF the

9800Pro gets 37.93
6600GT 34.54

In 3D Mark 2005 1280x1024 with 4xAA 8xAF

9800Pro gets 1762
6600GT 1751

Granted in Far Cry and Doom 3 the 6600GT runs away from the 9800pro but its much closer in UT. The point is the 9800rpo is a lot closer to the 6600GT than the 9600XT. Sure the 6600GT is faster in the majority of cases but then you should be able to get a 9800Pro a decent amount cheaper than a 6600GT. But obviously if you have the money then get the 6600GT its a better card. No arguments there.

For me its what runs the game I want, at the res and detail I want at an average 30fps+. Thats where you need to be.

uberpixie

RicardoSmith wrote:

Granted in Far Cry and Doom 3 the 6600GT runs away from the 9800pro but its much closer in UT. The point is the 9800rpo is a lot closer to the 6600GT than the 9600XT. Sure the 6600GT is faster in the majority of cases but then you should be able to get a 9800Pro a decent amount cheaper than a 6600GT. But obviously if you have the money then get the 6600GT its a better card. No arguments there.

For me its what runs the game I want, at the res and detail I want at an average 30fps+. Thats where you need to be.

Well for around a €130 I think a 6600 is it if you are buying new.

It is the best in it's class for the money. Much better than a 9600 XT.

If you can pick a 9800 pro up 2nd hand for €100 or less it's def worth it.

I have a 9800 non pro which still does the business for me: it will run any game at the mo at 1024 x 768 with medium settings well.

I can't find a reason to replace it just yet. Waiting till the next gen.

So you are preaching to the choir :-)

RicardoSmith

uberpixie wrote:

Well for around a €130 I think a 6600 is it if you are buying new.

6600 or 6600GT?

I run everything at 1280x1024 and at that res to be honest the 9800pro struggles in my machine P4/3ghz in games like Lock On and Far Cry. Its ok at 1024x768. Probably need more RAM though as it only has 512mb at the moment. Older titles like OFP and COD run fine. The HL2 demo runs fine too.

julius

RicardoSmith wrote:

6600 or 6600GT?

I run everything at 1280x1024 and at that res to be honest the 9800pro struggles in my machine P4/3ghz in games like Lock On and Far Cry. Its ok at 1024x768. Probably need more RAM though as it only has 512mb at the moment. Older titles like OFP and COD run fine. The HL2 demo runs fine too.

I got a 6600 256MB card from komplett.ie recently for €129(PCI-Express).
It's over €50 cheaper than a 6600GT and with a bit of tweaking can reach close to 6600GT speeds!!!

Was able to overclock my 6600 from 300MHz & 500MHz(Core/Memory) to 550MHz & 550MHz with only a slight increase in temp.
Ran 3DMark05 this morning and got 2,840, ran it a couple of more times and got 2,832/2,836/2,840 so it was a stable score.



Note: Above are the defaults that 3DMark05 was set at.

I done a lot of research on forums before my purchase and knew that the 6600 was an excellent overclocker.
Also from reading forums it appears that the average 6600GT gets about 3,000 on 3DMArk05 so I'm pretty happy with my savings.

jessy

RicardoSmith wrote:

If you don't need to play games then you don't need an AGP slot. End of story.

Not exactly, try setting up a 4 monitor display (extended desktop) without it.

RicardoSmith

jessy wrote:

Not exactly, try setting up a 4 monitor display (extended desktop) without it.

Wheres the problem?

http://www.matrox.com/mga/corp/financial/products/qidlp.cfm

Beside you can do it with 2 or 4 cheap PCI cards just as easily,

RicardoSmith

julius wrote:

I....I done a lot of research on forums before my purchase and knew that the 6600 was an excellent overclocker.
Also from reading forums it appears that the average 6600GT gets about 3,000 on 3DMArk05 so I'm pretty happy with my savings.

Thats not a bad idea...nice1

pred racer

Breaking news Iqon say there is an agp slot on my board. have to wait till I get home to check it. But if there is then I can use some of this excellent advice.

uberpixie

RicardoSmith wrote:

6600 or 6600GT?

I run everything at 1280x1024 and at that res to be honest the 9800pro struggles in my machine P4/3ghz in games like Lock On and Far Cry. Its ok at 1024x768. Probably need more RAM though as it only has 512mb at the moment. Older titles like OFP and COD run fine. The HL2 demo runs fine too.

For the money (€130) i was talking about the 6600. The 128mb version.

Much better than a 9600xt.

The 9800 series really should only be run at 1024x768 medium detail. It really can't hack it above that unless it's a strategy game. Fact of life for a lot of games.

You know yourself.

The extra ram will help but i am assuming you are already planning on a new gfx card at some stage.

RicardoSmith

RicardoSmith wrote:

Depends on the benchmark you are looking at, what game, what res and what settings from that same article...

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1780527,00.asp

HL2 1280x1024 with 4xAA 8xAF the

9800Pro gets 37.93
6600GT 34.54

In 3D Mark 2005 1280x1024 with 4xAA 8xAF

9800Pro gets 1762
6600GT 1751
.....

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2277&p=3

The 9800Pro does quite ok. When you consider the difference in cost between the cards. I got the 9800pro for €100 if I had had €200 to spend I would have got a 6600GT. but for 20% average performance increase ???

uberpixie

RicardoSmith wrote:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2277&p=3

The 9800Pro does quite ok. When you consider the difference in cost between the cards. I got the 9800pro for €100 if I had had €200 to spend I would have got a 6600GT. but for 20% average performance increase ???

Well I have a 9800 myself and I won't be buying a 6600gt for the same reason as you: the performance difference is not worth it.

If you can pick one up 2nd hand cheap they are def worth it.

But if you are buying a card new then the 6600 AGP(€130) is better value than a 9600XT (€100+).

Getting a 6600GT AGP new (€190) vs a 9800 pro(€150) new.

Paying €40 for +20% performance is worth it here if you are buying new.

RicardoSmith

Guess it depends what the budget it. 100 or 200.

KdjaCL

This thread shouold be edited stickied and renamed "best card for your budget"
/me looks at khannie.



Pred, suspense is killing us is it AGP or not ?

kdjac

pred racer

yep there is an agp slot in situ!!!!!!!

gobby

pred racer wrote:

yep there is an agp slot in situ!!!!!!!

Your laughing so!

JackKelly

how much better are the X800's and over the 9800 Pros? Worth the extra €€'s?

Khannie

KdjaC wrote:

This thread shouold be edited stickied and renamed "best card for your budget"
/me looks at khannie.

/me whistles innocently

One of the regulars (soz but can't remember who) did up an excellent thread with much more pertinant info on graphics cards that I intend stickifying. TBH, I wouldn't be arsed reading through a thread like this if it were sticked. Too much non-sticky-worthy information in here. I'm a bit "get to the point". That's why I've locked the essential software thread with bare minimum info in it and asked people to PM me with suggested changes.

There's defo a need for some graphics card sticky lovin' though. It's such a regular thread topic that it warrants a sticky.

Khannie

Timay: Depends on your budget. If I were buying a new card now it would be 6800 or X800 based because they're now in what I consider to be the "acceptable wallet pain range"

That range is different for different people though.

astrofool

these threads always get a good response, and tbh, the tech changes too fast for a sticky to be of any long term real use, without being rewritten all the time.

Much better to have a proper discussion about the latest and greatest as the topic comes up

jessy

TimAy wrote:

how much better are the X800's and over the 9800 Pros? Worth the extra €€'s?

I would say @ least 2x the preformance.

"Worth the extra €€'s?" really depends on what you want to do, i think they are, but if you dont want to play newest games at max detail than maybe not.

JackKelly

jessy wrote:

I would say @ least 2x the preformance.

"Worth the extra €€'s?" really depends on what you want to do, i think they are, but if you dont want to play newest games at max detail than maybe not.

i do. i do. I also want to be somewhat futureproof. Are the x800's anyway overclockable?

RicardoSmith

TimAy wrote:

how much better are the X800's and over the 9800 Pros? Worth the extra €€'s?

I've seen a few people who have said their framerates pretty much doubled going from a 9800pro to a x800 or a 6800GT. Certainly if you thinking of playing in high res on a 19" or bigger TFT's than thats what you need. But "acceptable wallet pain range" not for me unfortunately. But if I had the money, I buy one definately. Even people with fairly low spec PC's seem to think that the x800/6800 make a huge difference.

pred racer

sort of on the same subject, is there a huge difference between the 9800se and the 9800pro, ive decided Im going to buy an all in wonder card and have resigned myself to wallet rape, is the pro worth 100 extra???

Ciaran500

The SE is a cut down version of the Pro. Not worth it if you will be doing any gaming.

EDIT: The SE is roughly half the power of a Pro: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041004/vga_charts-08.html

pred racer

Thanks for all the advice guys/gals, bought a 9800pro, changed the chip for a p4 2.6G (both from fellow boardsers)and added 512M of ram for a grand total of 200 yo-yo! got it all installed while herself was out, now running fine and wedded bliss continues (ie she doesnt know I upgraded her present).

Thanks again. now that all the comp issues are sorted out I can go back to racing my pred!!!!!