Living in the city... with a couple.

Altheus

Right not sure if this is the right place at all but here goes....

I'm 20 myself, being living out of home since 18. I'm quiet enough, have a secure income/job. I spend most of my time in my room, dont eat a whole lot and while could be considered lazy, I actually would only be in my room while being "lazy".

So let me paint the picture.

In January I agreed to move into an apartment in town with my friend and his girlfriend, which made sense because 2 bed apartments are unaffordable for 2 people and my girlfriend has no intentions of moving out with me.

We all signed the lease, but the agreement was that if one of them left, it was their responsibility not mine.

Not it has come to the point where I want to leave, but I'm not really sure what I should do.

There's a lot of stuff in the place that's mine, cutlery, TV, DVD, speakers, towels etc. Also my deposit is non-refundable.

Now the obvious one is for me to find someone and place him in the apartment, but the situation is a little more complex.

The guy I'm living with bought a PC off me at the start of the year for €350, he has paid €150 of it so far. He also owes me another €180 cash from last year. He currently has no income to the best of my knowledge. We're sort of lapse friends.

His girlfriend has a well-paying job but between there's a lot of shadyness in the past between him and her, and I'm not sure if she's willing to support him.

Also it's important to note that I cannot discuss anything with either partner, about the other partner without either causing a massive row between them, or my self being turned on by both of them. This could be a trivial matter such as the washing up, or things that he hasn't told her, or half-truths (of seemingly no consequence..)

Now it's got to the stage where the little food I buy is being eaten and I feel I cant say anything without being embarassed for being so petty.

I work shifts and on Sunday at 2AM I asked them to turn off the subwoofer as the walls were paper thin, 3AM and they did. As result I resorted to just taking my speakers and CD player and putting them in my girlfriends house.

There's two ways I could do this, one is the honest way and probably kiss my deposit goodbye. The other way is to wait until half way through a month, take the PC, not leave money for bills or rent, leave a note stating that the deposit is theres, and they can move someone in instead.

What do you guys think, feel free to ask questions about the guy and gal too if you think it's important.

Evil Phil

If you're in a secure job you could probably afford to take the hit and move on, wiser and older. That's what I'd do. Not much advice for your current situation but only deposit payers should sign the lease.

seamus

I agree with Phil. Unless you had that cash reserved for something else, leave with your TV, CDs, CD player, pretty much anything of value (don't be too petty, if the cutlery is only worth €5, leave it). Call back in, face-to-face, and tell them you've left. If they protest, tell them there's 2 weeks rent in the money he owes you for the computer.

Cut them out of your life and get on with it.

ApeXaviour

I agree with evil phil, but I'll add something. This running off and leaving a note is just plain cowardly. Get them together in your living room, sit them down and tell them what you have decided to do. Make it known this is non-negotiable and that you'll be leaving in a week or 2-3 days time. If yer man starts going about the pc, just explain to him (infront of her, it's not your problem if they can't handle knowing petty crap about each other) about the money. Don't be aggressive or emotive and try to make them understand, this is unnecessary. Just be indifferent but unmoving (unless one of them suggests a compromise with regard to property that you hadn't thought of and agree with). Be a man and give them the a bit of notice so that they can start making preparations. It's not good just to leave the place unannounced, you're supposed to be an adult.

pclancy

ditto to the last post, crap situation to be in but you just have to sort it out the best you can now before it gets worse. Sit them down, give them the story and tell them you're moving on. House sharing situations can often turn bad, times change/people change but you just have to move on with life. Be more carefull with who you lend money to but apart from that you've done nothing wrong so you deserve a lot more respect from them. If he cant cough up the money, take your PC back and flog it elsewhere but dont let it drag on longer cos they'll only start leeching more and more (god knows i've been in the same situation but learnt the hard way like you are)

The_Conductor

I'd have to add to the above, that as you have signed the lease for the flat, regardless of any "understanding" you may have- check through the lease carefully, line by line, to ensure that your leaving the flat does not expose you legally. Whether or not your erstwhile friends decide to sublease the flat, is totally immaterial to you- providing it is expressly covered in the lease.

With regards to everything else- you live, you learn. Its just good manners to give your flatmates as much notice of your intentions as possible. If you put off your decision for another month or so, with college breaking up for the summer, you will find it a lot easier to source alternate accomodation.

Main thing is- make your decision and stick with it. Forget about dithering, go and do it.

CHECK THE LEASE!!!!

Dreamcatcher

Altheus wrote:

We all signed the lease, but the agreement was that if one of them left, it was their responsibility not mine.

Was this agreement "built into" the lease - is it in writing, or is it just his or their word that you have on this?

Altheus wrote:

Also my deposit is non-refundable.

Again, how was this agreed? I'm just asking cos you say later that you may have to "kiss the deposit goodbye", which suggests that you were expecting to get it back. Or does it depend on whether you give them a months notice (or whatever period of time specified by the lease)?

Altheus wrote:

The guy I'm living with bought a PC off me at the start of the year for €350, he has paid €150 of it so far. He also owes me another €180 cash from last year. He currently has no income to the best of my knowledge.

So, owes you €380 in total, and seems to show no signs of paying it back - that's not good. Have you confonted him about this in any way, recently? Might be a good idea to confront him about this asap, so that when you do tell them that you're moving, it won't come as a complete shock to him..!

Altheus wrote:

His girlfriend has a well-paying job but between there's a lot of shadyness in the past between him and her, and I'm not sure if she's willing to support him.

Now it's got to the stage where the little food I buy is being eaten and I feel I cant say anything without being embarassed for being so petty.

That's quite a sh!tty situation that your in, and it doesn't really add up that the girlfriend is being well-paid, and he(presumably) is nicking your food while your not there..

Also, as that evidence suggests and other hints that you've picked up on, things are not exactly great between them in their relationship. Also you indicate that you feel that you're walking on eggshells around them when trying to confront them, or whatever. It sounds like their relationship is a bit of a timebomb, just waiting to explode, and you do not want to be stuck in the middle when this happens, bad and all as things are now!

Oh, and I don't think it's up to you find someone else, especially if you give them rent for the remainder of the notice period. You seem to come across a bit as if they have done you a favour by asking you to move in with them in the first place...?

Altheus

It's probably important to let you all know that the couple are 23 and 31 respectively, so respect is quite a large issue. As regards the assets, TV, cutlery etc, it's all relatively new stuff I bought in January, I'd leave the bits and bobs fair enough. It's plates/bowls/mugs etc.

As far as the agreement goes, it was a verbal agreement, so I dont know whether their integrity would hold to that if I were to be in any way unreasonable in the situation.

The lease specifies that names on the lease can be changed with the permission of the landlord and the tenants. The deposit is refundable at the end of the 12 months (Jan 06), but I'd imagine if someone moved in you would charge him the deposit to compensate. The theory I work on here is that the resident would pay the deposit and rent in advance, as I did. (€900, €450 deposit, €450 rent). The couple could then use the deposit to pay the rent that I would otherwise owe, and in lieu of the first months rent.

The major difficulty here is that their relationship is a timebomb, and frankly I think the situation is way to volatile, and I dont want to see them break up and then for all of my money to be gone, as I cant afford the rent myself.

skywalker

So he essentially owes you the value of the computer? seems simple enough, ask him to pay you or you'll be taking the pc with you.

Also, why would you even consider just running off on them? are things really that bad that you can't just sit down with them and tell them and have it out?

ferdi

its a toughy.....at the end of they day he owes you the money, end of story. demand it and tell them your leaving to thier faces, dont take any argument, you shouldnt feel guilty, your perfectly entitled to move on/

Dreamcatcher

Altheus wrote:

The theory I work on here is that the resident would pay the deposit and rent in advance, as I did. (€900, €450 deposit, €450 rent). The couple could then use the deposit to pay the rent that I would otherwise owe, and in lieu of the first months rent.

Well, that sounds fair enough. They can hardly argue with that.

But as I mentioned before, deal with the fact that he owes you the €380 first of all, as a separate issue. He may have "forgotten" about it, or thought that you'd "forgotten", since you're "friends". Get this sorted/discussed in advance of bringing up the subject of moving out.

Then to minimize any hard feelings that may ensue after telling then that you're moving, maybe have an excuse ready, like you've been offered a job somewhere else, or something.

Then of course if the boyfriend hasn't paid you, or hasn't bothered to make some arrangement to say pay you €50 a month or something like that, then you should just take the PC with you when you move.

Altheus

Sorry, I didnt want to have to drag names through the mud and I wanted an objective opinion. My friend has a history of not working, stealing money, and 'borrowing' with no intentions to pay back, (be it a bank/friend/family). According to his girlfriend a few years ago, he watched her type in her PIN code, and took her ATM card used it and placed the ATM card back in her wallet. Also, his mother and sister described similiar situations.

Last year we were living together in house in Maynooth, which culminated in eviction due to the fact he hadnt paid any rent or deposit for 3 months. He was fairly depressed and claimed to be 'going insane'. When his girlfriend entered the picture I felt somewhat safe going into the situation. He had a fulltime job/money and was no longer depressed.

I'm concerned now because it's gotten to the stage I locked my bedroom when I leave, because various things (MP3 players, headphones, chargers) go missing for days or weeks, and until I'm exceptional vocal they dont 'reappear' in a place I was sure I looked before.

Also, I set a trap to see if anyone was coming in and out of my room, and sure enough someone was.

I really wish I was making this up, because I know I'm an idiot for ever getting involved in the first place.

As for the girlfriend, she is has an exceptionally condencending attitude towards me, being 10 years her junior. She's also a ultra-feminist (feminazi)? Which means that she tuts and sighs and I generally feel uncomfortable having anyone stay over, or having an open discussion on any sort of 'sensitive' topic, which occurs nightly on Sky One. When she buys something 'for the apartment' there's an expectancy that I should chip in, although not a penny was paid to me at the start in buying all the cutlery etc. Aswell as she has all the hygeine of a dung beetle.

All in all, I'm finding it hard to find what exactly I 'owe' these people, or whether or not I should just do whatever I can to get out without any legal issues.

Evil Phil

Move out dude! You know its the right thing to do - perhaps have a visit to a solicitor to cover you ass legally.

0utshined

Dude, from what your saying here I've got one piece of advice : Fúck them!

Your home is meant to be somewhere you can go to relax and chill out and from the sounds of it it isn't. You are living with a thief and someone who may or may not like you but in any event doesn't make you feel comfortable and that's not on. And feeling you have to spend your time in your room? That's not right. Your rent money is as good as theirs.

He may be a friend but that guy has problems and here's the thing - They are not your problems! Snooping around your room and 'borrowing' things is not on.

If I was in that flat share what I'd be doing would be this:

1) Tell your mate you want the money for the PC or you're taking it back. He hasn't paid you for it so it's not his. If he can't or won't pay you then take it back! He's had a year FFS.

2) Check your lease,Check your lease,Check your lease,Check your lease,Check your lease

3) Contact your landlord and let them know the situation, give them notice as required in your lease.

4) Tell them you need to talk to them both together, then explain that you're moving out and you're taking your stuff with you so they'll need to replace it. If it were me I'd tell them that we need to Divvy up the stuff you've part paid for as well but you may not be comfortable doing that. They might complain but so what? You need to be happy at home and I don't think you are.

5) If you think some of your stuff might 'go missing', then move it out to your girlfriends house.

You really need to get out of that place as soon as you can.

Stark

I agree with everything previous posters have said, move out, it's what you know is right. They sound like very destructive people to have in your life, regardless of money. Screw them, I mean really screw them. I'd even take the cutlery, regardless of how petty that might be. When one of my housemates moved out before, he took the steak knife with him, that's what house sharing arrangements can descend into (and he left on good terms).

Try and recover what you can and be prepared to make a monetary loss. Consider it the price of a fresh start with no ties lying around to those people.

ferdi

Stark wrote:

When one of my housemates moved out before, he took the steak knife with him

not the steak knife! :eek:
that bastard :mad:

Dinxminx

MOVE OUT.

NeMiSiS

I' have a go on yer mans girlfriend while he's out.. but that's just me.
Claim it back as 'expenses'
TK

rugbug86

nah, apparantly she has the hygeiene of a dung beatle...

move out, tis the only sensible option for your own sanity. id say move out, then go back and tell them. still being nice, but dont run the risk of getting sh1t stolen on ya.

good luck

Victor

NeMiSiS wrote:

I' have a go on yer mans girlfriend while he's out.. but that's just me. Claim it back as 'expenses'

Aswell as she has all the hygeine of a dung beetle.

Not only do you make an unconstructive suggestion, you also make a bad one.

Altheus, you have a problem. Fixing problems costs money, you need to minimise what this will cost you.

Is he really a friend or just an acquaintance? Friends don't steal from each other or put people under pressure to do things they don't want.

You may be stuck with paying the rent until the end of the lease or until a replacement is found.

When she buys something 'for the apartment' there's an expectancy that I should chip in

All women do this. Of course they then only buy what they want and consume it all themselves.

WhiteWashMan

Victor wrote:

All women do this. Of course they then only buy what they want and consume it all themselves.

thats a pretty negative and condesending post you have there victor.

its also a terrible generalisation of half the population of the planet.

you want to put up some statistics and the research for that accusation?

sounds pretty mysoganistic to be perfectly honest.

ionapaul

OP, when this situation has been resolved, you will certainly be both wiser and poorer. Hopefully the lessons learned will somewhat compensate for the money lost. You need to move out, if you decide to shut the door on your friendship (which seems the way the wind is blowing) physically remove the PC and every one of your belongings (including the cutlery and any steak knives you may have bought!) from the apartment, THEN sit them down and tell them. Someone recommended you have this sit down a few days before leaving, I would advise against that. You actually don't owe them anything, but you might as well give an explaination the day you leave.

Can I give you some advice that has served me well over the years?

-NEVER allow anyone to borrow money from you without cast iron guarantees of repayment terms. The very least you should do is get them to sign a piece of paper acknowledging they borrowed €xxx from you.
-NEVER move in with a couple. For obvious reasons
-If sharing an apartment, try not to sign the lease! This one is easy, there are so many shared apartments out there, you can always move in with those already on the lease.
-If buying something for the apartment, casually mention that the item is yours and not communal. 'I don't expect anything from you guys for the xxx, sure I'll be taking it with me whenever we move out'

Victor

WhiteWashMan wrote:

thats a pretty negative and condesending post you have there victor.

Perhaps, but it is borne out of bitter memories of women and proudcts from the supermarket's household aisle.

Example (real-life involving people from boards.ie)
2 lads sharing a flat - 12 pack of toilet paper lasts 6 months.
2 lads and 1 girl sharing a flat - 12 pack of toilet paper lasts 1 month.

its also a terrible generalisation of half the population of the planet.

Only those that use toilet paper.

tinkerbell

heheh, so true victor!

the_syco

ApeXaviour wrote:

Get them together in your living room, sit them down and tell them what you have decided to do. Make it known this is non-negotiable and that you'll be leaving in a week or 2-3 days time.

Aye, but make sure you remove all your valuables from the house, so they don't go "missing". Valuables that they "need" such as the TV, etc.

smccarrick wrote:

CHECK THE LEASE!!!!

I second this. Even though your gone, if the new person (who moves in when you leave) breaks something, you may be held responsible. If you are leaving, ntify the landlord, so that they may come over, ensure nothing is broken, and then you can go. Otherwise, if the remaining 2 break something, they can say you did it before you left. Cover every angle, basicly.

Altheus wrote:

The guy I'm living with bought a PC off me at the start of the year for €350, he has paid €150 of it so far. He also owes me another €180 cash from last year. He currently has no income to the best of my knowledge.

Give him back €30, and take the PC. If he moans, tell him you need the cash, and him delaying the payment has gone too far. As from my first point, remove the PC before you tell them that your leaving.

tinkerbell

Plus, you shouldn't have to pay him back the money he gave you - he had it for a year, so in a way, that covers for "renting" the PC off you - which is really what the guy did!

calhob_ie

Forgive me If Im wrong but can't you just give the notice period on the lease thus breaking it and then your home and dry. The remaining couple can then renegotiate the lease themselves, if they want to. I'd also deal with the landlord personally and take any funds owing to me from the reimbursed deposit before giving the balance to the couple. Keep them well informed as to what your doing and get everything in writing in case they decide to query it. In the meantime take everything of value that belongs to you ie tv,stereo etc and preferably move it off site or at least lock it in your room. I wouldn't be petty about it though I'd leave the cutlery etc till the day you go. Try and remain as open and affable about as possible till you go to try and avoid any unpleasantness building up.

Personally I wouldn't be happy leaving my name on the lease when your friend already has one sucessful eviction under his belt. I wouldn't like the prospect of getting a call 12months down the line saying I owe six months back rent on a flat I moved out of owing to my "mate" doing a moonlight.

~Rebel~

<off topic>

Victor wrote:

2 lads sharing a flat - 12 pack of toilet paper lasts 6 months.
2 lads and 1 girl sharing a flat - 12 pack of toilet paper lasts 1 month.

Only those that use toilet paper.

I can vouch for this one from personal experience too, a few years ago lived with a buddy(male) and another acquintance (female) all in all best craic ever for the year but we just noticed that she went thru toilet roll at some unbelieveable rate. she cold be away for a few weeks and we'd be grand, making a slight dent in one of those giant college rolls the really f'in big ones! she'd come back and pollish off one in a week! were wondering if she just used it instead of a towel to dry herself or something, madness! </off topic>

Yea have to say agree with everyone, cover you're angles as much as possible, tell landlord and get out of there asap, its just not cricket the way it is at the moment.

cr

1. Speak to your landlord and advise him/her,as the landlord might let you bend the rules of the lease providing that theres someone to move in , so that the landlord feel is happy money wise,
2.quetly remove any valuables from the house making excuses such as you have to put the tv in for repair ect....
3. sit them down and tell them your not happy and are moving out (a few weeks before).
4. when the new person is moving in you simply advise tehm of the situation and charge them the you portion of the deposit so that your not loosing out!
5.move on and learn from your mistakes! (i.e dont lend people money,dont let them use your name for things ect...)
6.get **** faced! (no legal benfit, but after that you'll need to!)