Toilet Attendants in pubs/clubs

ApeXaviour

Simple question:
Why are they always black?

Is it because we as white Irish would be too embarassed to see a white Irish toilet attendant?

Black people are continually portrayed in the media and popular society as being the oppressed. So is it because a black person in such a position would induce feelings of racist guilt.. Such that we Irish in our fumbling, inexperienced way "Hi Mr. black man" may attempt to compensate for this guilt by tipping excessively?

Or am I just being paranoid and it's simply that a nigerian company has the monopoly on sub-contracting toilet attendants?

Your thoughts?

KTRIC

Call me a w@nker, but I don't give them the time of day. I really don't need some guy to give me paper when I wash my hands.
It just feels strange, these people are totally unessesary. How come there wasn't a need for them 5 years ago ???

Why have the just sprouted up over the past 2 or 3 years :rolleyes: . I think we all know and are afraid to say it.

Sleepy

Because initially a few clubs thought it was a good idea to "go that step further" and when the guys approached them with the business proposal they accepted?

Personally I've found the attendants to be extremely useful at times when I've come out straight from work and could do with a splash of aftershave, some body spray or hair gel.

And why is it always immigrants? Because they've often no means of working inside the normal economy but still want to provide for themselves and their families. Hard to blame them for it if you ask me.

ApeXaviour

Sleepy wrote:

And why is it always immigrants? Because they've often no means of working inside the normal economy but still want to provide for themselves and their families. Hard to blame them for it if you ask me.

I'm not blaming them. And that's not what I asked. I asked why are they always (seemingly without exception) black. Africans make up only a fraction of immigrants in this country. So why do they hold the monopoly on this?

I can understand why mostly chinese-asian people tend to work in chinese restaurants. Because that makes sense! Does it make sense that only black people do this job? If it does then I think this raises some serious questions about what our society is vs what it claims to be..

Sleepy

Sorry the "hard to blame them for it" part of my post was directed at K-TRIC.

I don't think it's anything to do with the people involved being black. I've actually seen a few eastern european guys doing it (and even one or two older Irish guys).

ApeXaviour

Sleepy wrote:

I've actually seen a few eastern european guys doing it (and even one or two older Irish guys).

That's not been my experience.. It's always been black men and women

Karl Hungus

It's because they get off on watching you wee.

Seriously though, I've no idea how that kinda thing works, and how much the club takes out of their little change bowl, so it's hard to speculate on whether clubs are employing black people to get more sympathy for that little bit of their business, or as I remember someone else suggesting on another thread a while back, that they aquire a few bottles of cologne and camp out in the toilets without the knowledge of the club to make some extra for the kitty. Anyone know anything on this?

If the clubs solely hire black people for the job in an attempt to get more from those overly conscious of political correctness, then the fact that you've noticed that it appears to be mainly blacks seems to indicate it works as a sly bit of business.

Still, there doesn't seem to be any set price for taking a dash of cologne, so it's entirely up to you, how easily you react to guilt-trip business tactics, and how much loose change is in your pocket.

Kevin_rc_ie

i've always thought the club pays them 0 and what ever they get in "tips" is theirs.

David19

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

i've always thought the club pays them 0 and what ever they get in "tips" is theirs.

Yeah I think thats how it works. If thats true I guess they aren't employed by the clubs, they're just allowed to do this. They're self employed. This implies only black people want to do this job.

Kevin_rc_ie

Well I'd imagine there's some sort of agreement between them. I'd doubth their total freelancers....

What me and Apex where wondering if these Toilet Attendants are required to clean up? I've seen them mess with a mop a bit. I doubt they're required thou. MAybe the cleaners do it. But then if they're no cleaners, and the floor staff cleaned the floor i'd be surprised if the attendants didn't clean up the toilets.

I'd actually ask one of them, but, i'm kinda been opposed to speaking drunkenly to toilet attendants. I'd hate to work there and having knobs coming up every 15mins asking them how do they get paid and do they clean up. it's one of life's little mysterys

David19

Yeah sorry I meant there's some sort of an agreement. They just aren't paid a wage by the club. I don't think so anyway.

Kevin_rc_ie

Who knows? maybe it's the mafia?

Snickers Man

K-TRIC wrote:

Call me a w@nker, but I don't give them the time of day. I really don't need some guy to give me paper when I wash my hands.
It just feels strange, these people are totally unessesary. How come there wasn't a need for them 5 years ago ???

Yeah. There's a lot of stupid jobs that have emerged over the last 5-10 years. People handing you a towel so that you don't have to use the air dryer being one. But they're not the most annoying. What about these jerks that organise weddings???

Like, what twat is going to add an extra few grand to the bill for the most expensive day of their lives just to be fussed over by some hermaphrodite with a fake French accent?

You would think.

But some do. :rolleyes:

James_M

I think its a pain in the ass. I'd rather pee in peace but I can see the logic behind it.

These guys are often expected to act as security in many cases. It deters ladies in the gents or vice versa, drugs in the cubicles and other shenanigans. They can also give a quick clean over any messes so that people don't break their necks on a slippy floor.

Watch out for the guys that switch off the hand dryer though - that's just sly.

Scruff

The now out of print "The Slate" student mag did a hillarious piss take exposé article on this a few years back with the article entitled "Blacks in the Jacks". It annoyed an awful lot of people for being so politically incorrect but i thought it was hilarious.

That said, I'd hate that job. Feel sorry for them having to work in such an environment surrounded by piss and pissheads but can find some of them too in your face and annoying as hell but i find that with some shop assistants in clothes shops etc.

pretty*monster

Immigrants usually get stuck with the crappy jobs and it's a pretty crappy job.
Problem solved.

I really resent toilet attendants, on the one hand they probably really need the money, but on the other hand I can pick up a towel myself so why the heck should I pay someone to do it. I don't need that kind of internal moral agonising when I'm out trying to get drunk.

superfly

Scruff wrote:

The now out of print "The Slate" student mag did a hillarious piss take exposé article on this a few years back with the article entitled "Blacks in the Jacks".

their follow up was going to be "wogs in the bogs"

Zombrex

pretty*monster wrote:

Immigrants usually get stuck with the crappy jobs and it's a pretty crappy job.
Problem solved.

I really resent toilet attendants, on the one hand they probably really need the money, but on the other hand I can pick up a towel myself so why the heck should I pay someone to do it. I don't need that kind of internal moral agonising when I'm out trying to get drunk.

I think you only supposed to pay them if you take some of the aftershave or other tolietries ... i sometimes pay them any change i have just for giving me a towel, but often i don't. Like someone said, they don't need to be there they aren't providing me a service unless i take the aftershave, so i am not going to pay them just for being there. I get enough hassle at ATMs with people wanting money for just being there. I don't know if the night clubs pay them or not, but if they don't they should. There wage should come out of the very high price I already pay for a drink!

I think the confusion comes from the fact that to a lot of irish the idea of a bathroom attendent is completely new, and as such we have not worked out what the correct "unwritten" procedure is for how to handle the situaton. This makes us uncomfortable because we don't know how to act, worse when we have had a few beers. But it is not the poor attendents problem, we shouldn't get angry or resentful to them (as I have seen a few times on nights out, people making nasty often racist comments to the poor guy)

Tobias Greeshman

Im generally not the biggest fan of Toilet Attendents, well because they creep me out a bit, having someone standing there gawking at you while you go for a píss. Though at the same time if there handing out aftershave, hair gell or a towel, then I generally don't mind this so much.

Yes its normally immigrants that you see doing these types of jobs, perhaps we're too proud as a nation to do this, yet we'll bítch about immigrants taking our jobs, day in day out.

James_M wrote:

These guys are often expected to act as security in many cases. It deters ladies in the gents or vice versa, drugs in the cubicles and other shenanigans. They can also give a quick clean over any messes so that people don't break their necks on a slippy floor.

Well in this case perhaps there not such a bad thing to have, keeping the toilets clean, drug and puke-free at one o clock on a sat night maybe.

ApeXaviour

pretty*monster wrote:

Immigrants usually get stuck with the crappy jobs and it's a pretty crappy job.
Problem solved.

This is a digression. I realise they are all immigrants and I can understand why this might be the case (however much I dislike it). It doesn't explain the reason why they are all black immigrants however.

pretty*monster

This is a digression. I realise they are all immigrants and I can understand why this might be the case (however much I dislike it). It doesn't explain the reason why they are all black immigrants however.

Well in my experience they're not always black imigrants so I don't know what to say to that.

hussey

I think most people have a higher opinion of black immigrants than they do eastern european's, they seem more socialable or something

pickarooney

Why doesn't someone just ask one of the attendants who hires him - the club, a contracting company or are tehy self employed?

Kevin_rc_ie

This is a true story. My friend, a girl from Hong Kong was in the toilets in a hotel in dublin. She was drying her hands with tissue while looking in the mirror. A middle aged woman came out of the cubicle. My friend happened to look in her direction and smile as she is a friendly kind of person. The woman then took her the hand towel from her, dried her hands, and left saying thank you. My friend was let with a look of absolute shock and surprise.

swiss

I have to say I feel a little uncomfortable with toilet attendants around, because I never know whether it would be appropriate or not of me to leave them money in whatever circumstance. Sometimes it would probably be easier for me to leave without washing my hands, but that would be even worse.

I usually put down somewhere between 50 cent to a euro when I first go to a bathroom, if I don't I might feel a little guilty since I know that the guy isn't there because he wants to be - for him it's a living he has to make for himself. At the same token I don't see what he's done to earn it, I can dry my own hands perfectly well, having literally years of experience in the field. The situation is compounded if I have to go to the toilet a few times in the night, which is often the case. Should I keep giving money? As a rule I don't, since I don't typically use the aftershave or hairgel, but that niggling thought remains as to whether I should or not.

I don't blame the attendant, but I question the system that places these toilet attendants where they are. I can see their purpose if, as James_M mentioned, they act as a deterrant for activities like sex/drugs/smoking in the toilet. But from what I can tell, the mainstay of their job seems to be to hand out towels and toiletries to the patrons. Didn't they have vending machines that did that?

Also, from my experience, toilet attendants have been exclusively black.

the_syco

Sleepy wrote:

And why is it always immigrants? Because they've often no means of working inside the normal economy but still want to provide for themselves and their families. Hard to blame them for it if you ask me.

Or some, like the bouncers who work @ nightclubs, do it for some extra cash.

=-=

One club in town used to do it. Then it just caught on. And everwhere had a black dude in the toilets. Bit racist, but when you think about it, having a black dude in the bogs is the percentage of equality (ie; not white-employee's only).

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

I'd actually ask one of them, but, i'm kinda been opposed to speaking drunkenly to toilet attendants. I'd hate to work there and having knobs coming up every 15mins asking them how do they get paid and do they clean up. it's one of life's little mysterys

Yes, and thats why your type won't get employedf there. No offence, but the black dude has to put up with alot of sh|t from the drunks, and also, they're ensure no bad sh|t goes on, such as smoking, or rolling sh|t in the loo's. Unless they can take the sh|t, they won't last. Also they must ilke sports, or @ least watch it. Most people will tip the black dude more, if the commentry is favorable, about the most recent match.

David19 wrote:

Yeah sorry I meant there's some sort of an agreement. They just aren't paid a wage by the club. I don't think so anyway.

If the club didn't pay them, they'd get sued. I'd say they're paid to ensure the place is kept clean, etc. If they want to do the aftershave thing on the side, thats OK. Since the club doesn't pay for those, they make their money from the tips, for the aftershaves, etc.

pretty*monster wrote:

I can pick up a towel myself

Never been in a loo where there's no paper? Nothing to wipe with, either your hands, or your crack? Sh|t happens, and you're hardly going to ask @ the bar for some paper.
But the black dude will have a supply, so you can have a clean bum after that curry.

silas wrote:

perhaps we're too proud as a nation to do this, yet we'll bítch about immigrants taking our jobs, day in day out.

Every f*cker on the dole should earn it with a night shift in the bogs.

=-=

Next time I'm in my local, I'll ask Tim if he's there. I used to work there (as a loungeboy), so I know the staff. I'll ask him does the club employ him, and is it much. He'll laugh when I tell him that "people on the internet" wanted to know, cos he's a good humoured guy.

There was one guy in Time nightclub, in Naas. Didn't smile, nor say much. I gave him nothing, nor did anyone else.

If they talk, you talk back, they "tidy" the aftershaves, you see one you like, try it, use it, and tip him.

The amount, as I've observed, as based on how well he gets on with the drunks. Treat it as a job, as something you do cos you have to, you won't get tipped. Have a laugh with the customers, and you'll get tipped. Always was the way, always will.

iguana

I was always under the impression that they are not paid by the club. I spoke to a couple of people who did it and they told me they aren't club employees, it is usually their own business. Some places take a cut, others ask you to do minor cleaning/toilet restocking in leiu rent for the spot. This may not be they same for everyone in this business.

For the most part it isn't strictly legal as the attendant is not paying any form of tax or social insurance. Usually this is because the person does not have a work permit and isn't allowed to work in a legal job. I think if all immigrants were allowed to work we would see less toilet attendants, (I mean would you rather do that with no guaraunteed income or work in Dunnes/call centre for €8/9 an hour) although I am sure there are those who do it to supplement their salary.

From my personal perspective I hate it. In all the times I've been to the toilet in a club I've used this service once. I had been at the cinema, met some friends going to a club, after an hour dancing in my jumper I really wanted some deodorant. However a couple of years before I could have gotten this from a vending machine, so I wasn't that grateful but I tipped €2.

Other than that whenever I'm at a bar with this happening I tend to either try to exit the cubicle when there are other at the sink so I don't feel so awkward or else I wash my hands quickly and rush out, politely refusing any paper towels and dry my hands on my clothes. Either way I feel guilty, I HATE HATE HATE feeling like this on a night out. I often choose to leave the bar rather than go back to the toilet.

Another thing that I don't like about it is that when women go to the toilet it can often be an important part of a night out. Most of my best nightclub memories include long sessions with my friends sitting at the sinks, talking about what's been happening and planning the next part of the night. This isn't really possible when you have an attendant standing over you, wanting you to give them money. And they do want money, that is the only reason they are there.

Also most clubs, I went to 5&10 years ago always had staff who's job it was to monitor the toilets. If the club had a few toilets they would go from one to the other, cleaning up messes, restocking toilet paper, making sure nothing bad was happening ( & joining in with the girly chats & giving customers the dirt on the cute barman they are all hot for). You don't really see that anymore as the club owners get this service for free from the toilet attendants.

James_M

the_syco wrote:

If the club didn't pay them, they'd get sued.

Not if they're self employed. There are plenty of jobs (e.g. door to door sales) where you only make what you earn on a self employed basis (i.e. no basic salary). It could work for attendents as well.

Sangre

Yeah, they're always black.
Think it is because they don't have a work permit, any Asians are probably over here with permit to learn the language and now a lot of Eastern Europeans are part of the EU

super_furry

I personally resent the feeling that you're now obliged to pay if you want to wash your hands. These people are wholly unnecessary and are more of a nuisance than a help.

pretty-in-pink

I saw polish people doing it....Anyway I careless about where they are from. Its having someone there at all, and no clear indicatment of what we are supposed to do.......

It makes me feel horribly middle-class. I'll chat to them(try to, at any rate), but its weird. I just get freaked out at the idea of someone cleaning up after me or waiting on me in the bathroom. If they got min. wage r something it would be ok.....Just the thought that they only have whats in the bowl freaks me out. Its kinda like the way homeless people make me feel. I feel guilty for having stuff they don't. Please someone find out if toilet attendants are paid. There are none where I live, home being outside of the Dublin/Kildare area.

As for where toilet attendants came from......I'm betting the USA. Its a kind of useful job, and I see no reason to abolish it- as long as the people doing it actually get a wage.