LPG Conversions - Where or Who does them?

Vexorg

Im considering getting an LPG conversion on my Trooper to ease the pain of high fuel bills a little. I have been quoted €2800 for dual tank under chassis system. I have been quoted much less to get the conversion done in England and Northern Ireland.

Some of the suppliers have suggested that a good mechanic could fit the kit.

So, does anyone know of

a) Any LPG conversion companies
b) recommend anyone who has performed an LPG conversion previously.

One of the suppliers said that The Trooper is not suitable for an LPG conversion as it is a direct injection system and requires the flow of petrol to cool the injectors, so he is unwilling to supply a conversion kit, while all other suppliers and all fitters have said they are not aware of this being a problem or did not mention it as being problem.

Anyone come accross this before.

Finally, while I have been looking out for them, I have not spotted a single Petrol Station that also supplies LPG, are there many and what price is LPG in Dublin these days.

Thx

Vex.

John R

LPG is much more popular in the UK because it is much cheaper than petrol, there is not as big a difference here. They also offer grants for conversions so you can claim some of the initial cost back.

TBH if you want to save on fuel bills then get something more efficient than a petrol Trooper.

If you really must have an agricultural vehicle, do your wallet a favour and get a diesel.

http://www.ilpga.com/ has a list of retailers.

Before you go ahead with a conversion find out exactly how much you will save from it, keep in mind that LPG will do about 20% less mileage per litre than petrol.

jhegarty

Vexorg wrote:

Im considering getting an LPG conversion on my Trooper to ease the pain of high fuel bills a little. I have been quoted €2800 for dual tank under chassis system. I have been quoted much less to get the conversion done in England and Northern Ireland.

Some of the suppliers have suggested that a good mechanic could fit the kit.

So, does anyone know of

a) Any LPG conversion companies
b) recommend anyone who has performed an LPG conversion previously.

One of the suppliers said that The Trooper is not suitable for an LPG conversion as it is a direct injection system and requires the flow of petrol to cool the injectors, so he is unwilling to supply a conversion kit, while all other suppliers and all fitters have said they are not aware of this being a problem or did not mention it as being problem.

Anyone come accross this before.

Finally, while I have been looking out for them, I have not spotted a single Petrol Station that also supplies LPG, are there many and what price is LPG in Dublin these days.

Thx

Vex.

do many garages still do lpg ?

it might just be me, but I haven't seen it in a while...

Nuttzz

Last updated: 10th September 2002.

thats when the garage list was last updated, i have seen a number of them remove their lpg after a refurb, which a lot of places seem to be under going at the moment

lomb

buy an oil burner and ditch the smooooooth motioooooon lotioooooooon.

Vexorg

I found one today on Richmond Road, not sure if the pumps were working properly as the digits were flicking on and off, but no out of order sign and pump and it was nice and clean so probably still in use.... Best part was price @ 64.7c per liter, so Fuel is about 34% cheaper.

List of stations in Dublin here.

Gas Injection seems to be an updated system, some info here on conventional mixer lpg systems and gas injection.

Anyone here actually driven an lpg converted vehicle, was it a mixer type or injection, was it a large torquey engine and did you notice any performance hit?

Thx

V.

lomb

Vexorg wrote:

. Best part was price @ 64.7c per liter, so Fuel is about 34% cheaper.


V.

and worst part is the fuel contains 20% less energy per liter so the saving is only16 %, whether or not a 3 grand conversion could repay itself with such a small saving is debateable. also in the uk, lpg converted cars have a lower resale value for some reason probably because the perception that a gunter has messed wiith it.

Vexorg

Hi Lomb,

Im not sure If ive done my maths here,if its 20% less economical, then would not 80% of the saving be available making it about 27% cheaper then petrol.

You are obviously familier with gas conversions, the only info I can get seems to be word of mouth. however most of the written research I have found suggests that the higher Octane of LPG and using modern delivery systems (gas injection) where the system works with the vehicle's engine management systems, over the older mixer type installs delivers greater mileage and performance than older LPG systems.

When you speak of the the 20% loss in power, is this in relation to mixer type or gas injected systems. Its all pretty confusing, especially when some of the UK government websites are saying the following.

Performance of your vehicle may be important. LPG has an octane rating of 105, and usually there is a slight drop off in performance of about 5%. However, experience of drivers suggests you'll barely notice it, except when the engine is working hard.

Thanks

V.

lomb

Vexorg wrote:

Hi Lomb,

Im not sure If ive done my maths here,if its 20% less economical, then would not 80% of the saving be available making it about 27% cheaper then petrol.

You are obviously familier with gas conversions, the only info I can get seems to be word of mouth. however most of the written research I have found suggests that the higher Octane of LPG and using modern delivery systems (gas injection) where the system works with the vehicle's engine management systems, over the older mixer type installs delivers greater mileage and performance than older LPG systems.

When you speak of the the 20% loss in power, is this in relation to mixer type or gas injected systems. Its all pretty confusing, especially when some of the UK government websites are saying the following.



Thanks

V.

no problem, i looked into it yes. its all very confusing. top end cars have been converted to lpg into the uk, there was a 01 audi a8 on lpg and it was 3 grand less than book value for the petrol version so i persume people are scared?

its nothing to do with the octane, the octane is higher which means it burns quicker for the same throttle application however the molecular energy in the fuel is lower than petrol due to it being physically lighter for the same 'literage' which is in itself essentially arbitrary as its compressed gas thats liquified under pressure. however its true liquid is difficult to compress so it must be liquid at a certain pressure that they call liters. the thing is if u think back to chemistry class the lower molecular weight products of crude distill higher up the fractionating column so persumably the stuff is lighter and so develops less power BUT it burns faster and the consensus is that it develops 20% less energy theoretically whatever about efficiencies of modern injection sysems.

remember that diesel is heavier than petrol and therefore distil lower down the fractionating column as its heavier so has more power than petrol? in addition the diesel engine is 60% efficient whereas the petrol engine is 40% efficient.

the bottom line anyway is there arent any grants here, like the uk, and professionally it will cost 3 grand. there are MANY horror stories in the uk on shoddy lpg conversions.so u need it done properly if only for your safety. personally i would feel unsafe having a compressed gas tank in the boot, thats not protected if the car is rear ended. many deaths have occured in the us in certain cars where the petrol tank wasnt protected and the cars have caught fire in severe accidents. gas would be even more dangerous persumably. remember in normal petrol cars, the tank is behind the chassis, whereas the boot is probably a crumple zone. this is less relevent to a big jeepthan a car though.

anyway whatever about it, i reakon a diesel is a better bet as at least its resaleable so u should recoup ur money and fuel consumptions on heavy jeeps are reasonable. hope that helps but im sure there is some misinformation there, it is all very confusing as u say.

Ratchet

I don't know LOMB


LPG safety is another myth. People where screaming that cars will blow up when injection systems where introduced to the engines.

OHHH, spraying petrol into hot engine and this high pressure petrol hoses........etc.


Bottles look simple but lots of engineering went to the whole idea.
How safe is petrol if your car is upside down and you are socked in it?



Main problems were:

-tanks were big,
- filling needed assistance,
-filling/switching from petrol to gas could be smelly and most of people would react the same way

I smell GAS!!!!!! we are going to die!!!!!!!!!!

and nobody highlighted the fact that is environment friendly, government didn't encourage people before.


Just wait when they introduce hydrogen powered cars.

OHHHHH , i am driving German(BMW made) atomic bomb!!!!

only if there is no petrol, they will say-- yeah we take hydrogen





But just have think about this:

Next time when you travel to eastern Europe and consider taking TAXI remember that most of them run on GAS.

Simply due to the fact gas price is just bit over half price of petrol and installation cost about 400 euro, also they do serious mileage

Entire installation has to be fitted by approved shop as paperwork is checked by cops during checkpoint


They are actually caring passengers, so would you walk or take the taxi?


anyway, main things to consider are:

there is only slight performance drop but nothing to worry about.
you will actually burn more gas then petrol which reduces price difference again
you also have to make sure that engine oil is LPG friendly, not all oils are suitable as you need additional lubrication due to different gas combustion pattern.
in result you can burn valve guides or valve seats.


gas burns clean but don't think many people care, sad

it also cost 2.800 to convert it by looks of it :eek:

CJhaughey

LPG and CNG were extensively used in the New Zealand Car Industry for many years, Their popularity is fading now with the realisation that Natural Gas is running out.
LPG is no more dangerous than petrol, Many people worked hard at the problems in the early days of gas and there are a lot of safety features built in to modern systems.
As Ratchet says heads can suffer from lack of lubrication, some people have fitted high volume oil pumps to compensate for this.
although with modern materials used in valve seats premature wear is unlikely in the valve train.
There used to be a calculator that would work out the time the system would have to pay for itself based on fuel costs(volatile now) and the installation itself.
Unfortunately this govt doesn't see energy saving issues as being particularly important so no grants available here.

Our man in Havana

It would be a nightmare to use LPG here as it would be very difficult to plan journeys as you could never be sure of being able to get a tank.

I once heard that you can fallback to petrol if you run out of gas, is this so?

Vexorg

Bond-007

When you use gas you have a dual fuel system. So you start on petrol and switch to gas when the engine warms up a couple of minutes only.

Gas was cheaper than pertol so its attraction was it was cheaper to run a car on gas , so 90% of time run on gas and 10% on pertol.

Its can also be used to extend the driving range of a car .. start on pertol, use the gas, when gas is exhausted switch back to petrol.

Gas prices seem to vary, I went to the petrol station on the airport Maxol I think and the prices for gas was 82.7c per litre. On richmond road it was priced at 64.7c per litre, making me think that the Richmond Road station - also maxol - did not supply gas anymore.

V.

Vexorg

whoops ment to give this a new thread ... soz...

rooferPete

I have a 1986 w124 series Merc, carbs not fuel injection it was parked up and left to die.

Anyway it has an LPG system, the tank takes up some boot space but not a problem in a car that size, it actually ran better on LPG than petrol.

There is a switch on the dash to transfer from LPG to Petrol or vice versa, when I was using it I was told it is a good idea to run the car on petrol for a few miles at each LPG fill up because there is no lubrication in the LPG.

The car never failed to start on cold mornings and the power loss if any was not noticable.

The engine size is 2 litre standard 4 cylinder, if I had another Merc with carbs I would not hesitate using the LPG system again, as far as I know it can be switched over to another car using carbs without any problem, fuel injection is a different kit as far as I know.