Where did it all go wrong ?

netwhizkid

Last night (Saturday night) i went out for my third time on the town (my first time since reaching the legal age of 18) oh my oh my, but what can i say only when can i get a one way ticket out of here. Now i don't drink (I'm a rare species a pioneer). Oh boy but this government have alot to answer for, why oh why are 13 to 15yr old kids getting sold alchol ? Bouncers and security well there a bit like bertie all smiles for the camera but never really does anything. Alchopops alchopops alchopops, Nazi leader Mcdowell but a huge tax hike on them a few years back "to curb underage drinking" no not to curb it but to rip every one off. a non-exsistent smoking ban, good job i had the old inhaler with me, I'm asthmatic. Youve a better chance of finding the holy grail than a taxi, why is this country ruined, why why because of fianna fail, John O Donoghue, extended opening hours while minister for injustice, We need to take a good and hard look at extending the legal alchohol limit to 21 as in america, i'm not saying there the perfect society but hell we have to do something, and the amount of slack i got from people for not drinking, what is wrong with people ? all that glitters is not gold, ie. the carpet was decorated with shards of broken glass. Does pubs/clubs know about the unbreakable plasti glass. Now i'm only 18, and although what is say was disturbing, i now know that if i ever do procreate :rolleyes: Ireland is not a society i'd want any children of mine to grow up in.

I'm all for civil libarties but this is taking the p*ss, i get the distinct feeling that, alcohol drying out centres will be big buisness in future if current trends continue.

Well i'm sure more of ye will share my sentiments.

Regards netwhizkid

kasintahan

People are out on saturday to drink and score, fullstop.
If you don't like it then stay at home.

BTW - the smoking ban works in Dublin.

My, what an almighty rant! Its the type of thing someone who is drunk would write after a night out...

seamus

Sounds like you went to a ****hole.

The problems of underage drinking, smoking in pubs and broken glass everywhere are ones I rarely ever encounter in Dublin.

cormie

netwhizkid wrote:

and the amount of slack i got from people for not drinking, what is wrong with people ?

Ah yeah, I always get the "why aren't you drinking" "what are you drinking water for???" "pussy" when alcohol actually increases the female hormone in men meaning alcohol would actually make me more of a woman :rolleyes:

Pubs should really cater for non drinkers too. A nice cuppa coffee or a hot lemon drink would go down well:D

cormie

cormie wrote:

Ah yeah, I always get the "why aren't you drinking" "what are you drinking water for???" "pussy" when alcohol actually increases the female hormone in men meaning alcohol would actually make me more of a woman :rolleyes:

Pubs should really cater for non drinkers too. A nice cuppa coffee or a hot lemon drink would go down well:D

Anyone who calls you a "pussy" for not drinking is a tool. One of the most annoying things I found when I go awhile without drinking is the lack of drinks that I can consume...I could drink guinness for hours, but I find there's only really a pint of blackcurrant that I like and you can't drink that all night!

In one of our college bars, a pint of blackcurrant is 1.10. I've been out in the palace, though, and gotten some of them free. /rant.

Wertz

Haha....raise legal age to 21!??
Nice idea, and it works okay in the 'States, but you try even legislating for it here, let alone enforcing it. The backlash from college students alone would be enough to topple a government.
Fact is we're for the most part a nation of drinkers, as sad as that may be. It's instilled in nearly all of us from a pretty early age that alcohol is acceptable and that it's ok to get drunk every so often....until you break that mindset things will just continue the way they are now, or steadily get worse until drastic action needs to be taken. If there was strict (and I mean totalitarian) control of alcohol sales to 18+s and severe penaltys for individuals (including parents) and publicans/shop staff alike for supplying to minors then we might get somewhere.

But like everything else in this damn place we only act when it's too late, and it's usually an OTT heavy handed approach.
Everyone including the politicians knows there's a problem but we're all too busy trying to get the week over us so we can all f**k off down the pub and forget about it till monday...
"Sure it'll be grand..."

Kevin_rc_ie

when alcohol actually increases the female hormone in men meaning alcohol

Well, leaving aside the factual inconsistencies,

men have naturally high levels of testosterone in their bodies.
females have naturally low levels of testosterone in their bodies.
when men drink, the testosterone level doesn't change, however, their ability to control the urges testosterone is willing them to do is decreased (fight for example).
In females, testosterone levels are increased as a result of alcoholic consumption. Firstly, they have no natural ability to control their increased tempers/libido as a result of increased testosterone because it only happens when they're drunk, secondly, because they are drunk they're rationality is also impaired.
Therefore, when males drink they often act like pigs because alcohol is impairing their judgement.
When females drink, they act like pigs because they've increased levels of testosterone that is stimulating certain activites they can not properly control.

any doctors, biochemists, endocrinoligists etc. reading this please correct my mistakes.

hoody

anyone who can not drink while everyone else is getting wasted is a saint - tried it myself and it's one of the most irritating things i've ever had to do. all soft drinks etc should be tax free in pubs, that way you wont spend so much money drinking lucozade and pretending it's cider. the underage drinking will never go away. you can't tell someone that they're barred from alcohol until the instant they turn eighteen, it's the dumbest law ever. Gov. should make like France and promote social drinking with family etc, that way you learn your limits and how alcohol affects you in a safer environment than down the back of some ****ty shed before those youth discos

Sarky

Increasing the drinking age will only increase the amount of under-age drinkers. Criminalising stupidity might work better.

Kevin_rc_ie

Why not ban alcohol? It serves no rational service. Except in use of sterilisation.

wheres me jumpa

Sarky wrote:

Increasing the drinking age will only increase the amount of under-age drinkers. Criminalising stupidity might work better.

sarky you just have this way with words, every post is both funny and correct!

having spent some time drinking in the states, its a simple fact that the legal age might be 21 but 15,16,17,18,19,20 year olds still drink. and its something we cant stop becasue every underage drinker has an older brother or sister or something that will get them beer. for the most part i find that in the cities and towns underage drinking in pubs and clubs is not a major problem. it has cetainly improved since i was underage but there is always one or two that slip in.

as for the smoking ban i cant believe how well obeyed that law has been.

Hash Boy

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

Why not ban alcohol? It serves no rational service. Except in use of sterilisation.

Indeed. But at least it gives shallow losers somewhere to go and something to do - at least then I know where NOT to go, so it does serve some purpose.

StupidLikeAFox

theres actually no point blaming the government. why should they be held responsible for peoples inability to control themselves?

Make stricter laws - Accused of being a nanny state
Make more lenient laws - Accused of not caring

Uthur

30% of the population doesn't drink at all.
The rest get totally hammered.

Why do we have sod all moderate drinkers here?

I don't think we should raise the legal age to 21 - if you
are old enough to vote you should be able to get a drink.

God knows - you'd have to be drunk to vote for the
politicians we get to choose from here!

Sarky

wheres me jumpa wrote:

sarky you just have this way with words.

No, they have their way with me. And then they never return my calls.

Hugh Hefner

hoody wrote:

anyone who can not drink while everyone else is getting wasted is a saint - tried it myself and it's one of the most irritating things i've ever had to do. all soft drinks etc should be tax free in pubs

Here here!

I looking forward to being a pioneer. The sense of "I'm better than you" will be worth the extra money for cokes.

snappieT

But drinking is fun.

I used to be the most introverted person ever. Went to a party, had a few, decided wtf if these people don't like me. Acted myself (NOT drunk myself), they loved it.

Since, each time I've a few I reveal myself (not litreally) a little bit more. People I once knew by face only are now good friends with me - both when I'm fully sober and tanked.


And yes, I'm 17 [but would like to make the point that i'm a responsible drinker. Never done anything stupid, thrown up etc.]

~snapscan

Uthur

Uthur wrote:

30% of the population doesn't drink at all.
The rest get totally hammered.

Why do we have sod all moderate drinkers here?

I don't think we should raise the legal age to 21 - if you
are old enough to vote you should be able to get a drink.

God knows - you'd have to be drunk to vote for the
politicians we get to choose from here!

I'm sorry, I can't read what you just wrote as I must be drunk, according to your statistics.

64% of people who read this are eating. 80% are contemplating drinking water. What proof do I have? Well I'm not saying, therefore I must be right...

Kevin_rc_ie

80% proof? that's some vodka.

Stark

anyone who can not drink while everyone else is getting wasted is a saint - tried it myself and it's one of the most irritating things i've ever had to do.

Very irritating for me too. Then I found out I needed to "tweak" my circle of friends as there were a few who just really really wrecked my head in that regard.

all soft drinks etc should be tax free in pubs, that way you wont spend so much money drinking lucozade and pretending it's cider

Lucozade is pretty bad stuff to be drinking anyway because of its depressant effects. It might not effect you straight away (as in you can be quite hyper when you're out) but over time I notice a dull headache and inability to concentrate from drinking Lucozade.

The General

did someome say DRINK



Where

cormie

It's even worse for me, I wouldn't drink coke or 7-up or anything either.. not even water with a splash of black-currant, don't like the idea of them in my system either. I like places where you can get a coffee or a pint of fruit juice, if places don't supply (clubs are bad in this way) they wont get any further money then what I pay in. :rolleyes:

funky penguin

snapscan1212p wrote:

each time I've a few I reveal myself (not litreally)

I tend to do it literally, drink or no drink. Quite liberating.

4Xcut

is there not some government about designated drivers and cheaper soft drinks.

cormie

I saw in one club a poster in the toilet saying "designated driver for the night, go to the bar and you can have 3 free soft drinks on us" quite a good idea alright. But again, no soft drinks for me

Wertz

Stark wrote:

Lucozade is pretty bad stuff to be drinking anyway ........ but over time I notice a dull headache and inability to concentrate from drinking Lucozade.

Thought that was just me...always used to gedt a bad bad headache from lucozade when I was young...only the original stuff, not the sport.

Soft drinks are expensive for a reason...publicans make a lot of profit on them cos they're not taxed as heavily as alcohol. €2.00 (?been a while) for a softdrink in a pub is crap, when we're trying to encourage drivers not to drink. Wasn't there some debacle at xmas about a drinks supplier giving away free softdrinks to pubs for designated drivers? Except that in many cases the drinks were just sold on anyway :rolleyes:

Bri

kasintahan wrote:

People are out on saturday to drink and score, fullstop.
If you don't like it then stay at home.

Real mature. Why not just provide a sandpit and we can all stick our heads in it? There's a major problem in Ireland - it's reliance on drink as a social crutch.
I'd share many of the same sentiments as the OP, but I should point out that the grass is always greener...even in places like France I've seen underage drinking (and driving) from teenagers brought up on wine. But lets face it, with our miserable weather, and related poor recreational options, Ireland sucks compared to other countries. Prohibition or raising the age level will only exacerbate the problem until people change their attitudes and also respect the law. I really don't see anything changing even with a new government; it would take a brave man to have some balls and risk the political fallout.

kasintahan wrote:

BTW - the smoking ban works in Dublin.

Really? I know places where it doesn't. Maybe it's better than other remote areas but let's face it - enforcement here is simply below par.

Larianne

I think Irish people just don't know when to stop drinking and can't behave themselves when drunk. I was in America for six months and yes people do drink alcohol over there too but are much more civilised. I saw just one fight the whole time I was there and it invovled 1 drunk person and a cab driver.

When I came home and went out for the first time in Dublin I was actually scared! In the pub we were in, a fight started out towards the end of the night and bottles started flying aswell as Fists. Of course, instead of throwing the culprits out straight away the bouncers had to have a few digs aswell at the guy! Then we leaving the pub, there were masses of people out on the streets pissed (well that's not surprising) but the level of drunkeness was very intimidating and the short walk to my nitelink, I saw about 6 guys pissing in doorways, into bins or just there on the street. I love going out in Dublin as the craic here is much better than in the US but once it hits 2am here on a Saturday night, it's not a nice place to be. I was just glad I made it to the nitelink safely!

funky penguin

Wertz wrote:

Thought that was just me...always used to gedt a bad bad headache from lucozade when I was young...only the original stuff, not the sport.

It's probably all that glucose, or the amount your paying for it, thats causing the headaches.

Repli

OP.. Can I just say something, why would you go to a pub if you had no intention of drinking? It's like going to a swimming pool and not going for a swim and then being shocked when everyone is else is swimming.. or something..
Like to be honest what did you expect? Everyone to be nice and quiet and orderly.. discussing politics over a nice cup of tea?

funky penguin

Probably cos all the friends are going there, and they don't want to do anything else.

Selfish bastards!!!!!!!!!

Stark

Repli wrote:

OP.. Can I just say something, why would you go to a pub if you had no intention of drinking? It's like going to a swimming pool and not going for a swim and then being shocked when everyone is else is swimming.. or something..

Analogy all well and good, but you won't find yourself socially excluded if you decide to boycott swimming pools.

Like to be honest what did you expect? Everyone to be nice and quiet and orderly.. discussing politics over a nice cup of tea?

What pubs do you go to? Most of the bars I go to have orderly atmospheres.

Bri

Repli wrote:

OP.. Can I just say something, why would you go to a pub if you had no intention of drinking? It's like going to a swimming pool and not going for a swim and then being shocked when everyone is else is swimming.. or something..
Like to be honest what did you expect? Everyone to be nice and quiet and orderly.. discussing politics over a nice cup of tea?

That's a very convienent way of looking at things. Obviously he went there to socialise; as it's one of the few options open to Irish people (at least society makes it that way).

If I went to a swimming pool and instead of people doing lengths, there was a rowdy group of yobs pissing anywhere and starting to dunk strangers who looked them funny...then I'd be shocked. Really, is it too much to ask that Ireland could learn to be a little more civilised and have fun without intimidating others, and losing all sense of responsibility.

pat kenny

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

Why not ban alcohol? It serves no rational service. Except in use of sterilisation.

It is a drug that helps people escape there dismal and depressing lives. This is of course a visious cycle as alcohol causes depression.

The government wont properly tackle the problem because the drinks lobby is so powerfull, and many politicians have a personal financial interest in the drinks industry.
The duty on booze is a major source of income for the country.
In the log run I would say it is counter productive as they probably spend more on medical illnesses caused by drinking than they take in duty.

Banning alcohol completly might only be possible under a very authoritarian regiem (Pobably dictatorial ) so it isnt really an option, unless you plan to stage some form of Coup d'état but I doubt you would get popular support though.

kasintahan

Bri wrote:

Real mature. Why not just provide a sandpit and we can all stick our heads in it? There's a major problem in Ireland - it's reliance on drink as a social crutch.

It is a problem - for a minority of people. The vast majority like to go out and enjoy a few. I spent 2 months not drinking this year (and now another month for exams) so saying that you don't enjoy yourself in clubs/pubs despite not drinking doesn't wash with me.


For the other who would consider raising the legal limit to 21. How is this going to stop people with alcohol problems from drinking?
Frankly, I think dinner drinking of a beer/ glass of wine with parents should be encouraged from the mid teens on as is the norm in Europe. Yes, they still have problems there but the "I'm mad me" attitude of the knacker drinking in a ditch fraternity would be curbed substantially (association of alcohol with parents etc).

Bri wrote:

Really? I know places where it doesn't. Maybe it's better than other remote areas but let's face it - enforcement here is simply below par.

Where have you seen smoking in pubs/clubs in Dublin?

It just doesn't happen, or they are turfed out on the street pretty sharpish.

Imposter

The legal age for drinking should be reduced, not raised, if the government want ot tackle the problem with alcohol. They should also have no limits (or very little limits) on opening hours.

Having the legal age at 16 would mean that kids would be allowed to drink in a bar. That means they are not knacker drinking. It means that 'responsible' adults are observing their drinking and deciding when they've had enough. this of course implies that bar owners and staff (as well as off licence staff) have to act responsively and not sell alcohol to anyone who is drunk. I'd leave the legal age for spirits at 18 though meaning that 16-18 year olds could only drink beer/cider/etc and wine.

Couple that with education in schools concerning all areas of alcohol use/abuse/etc. Then there needs to be enforcement. Pub and off-licences who sell to drunk or underage people should face serious penalties starting with loss of licence for a set period.

Longer opening hours would mean people can go out and enjoy some drinks rather than rushing to get as many drinks as possible before the bar shuts. It also means that everyone is not on the streets at the same time. Over here in Austria bars close at 4am. Disco bars and clubs can stay open later. Everything pretty much dies out naturally by 2 or 3 in the bars. It's a sensible approach and it works. Another thing that helps this is that a person who causes a fight can be made pay for medical bills and/or loss of earnings if they injure someone. It's amazing how that keeps people from fighting.

The only thing about doing something like this in Ireland is that it might kill off a large percentage of the population in the first few weeks or months. Also not a bad thing if you ask me :eek:

Bri

kasintahan wrote:

It is a problem - for a minority of people.

I don't get this...it is a problem for Ireland generally. I'm not talking about prohibition here, I'm talking about tackling the roots of not only underage drinking, but the vast majority of society's attitude towards drinking. If you think a few moany pioneers are just kicking up a fuss then I find your attitude to be very naive. Ireland, as it stands right now, has major issues with its inability to tackle binge drinking and alcohol's inclusion in the most social occasions.

Imposter

Imposter wrote:

The legal age for drinking should be reduced, not raised, if the government want ot tackle the problem with alcohol. They should also have no limits (or very little limits) on opening hours.

Having the legal age at 16 ...

One major problem with having the legal age lowered is that more kids (yes, I can call them kids!) would be drinking more heavily. When you're 16, you're still in puberty, and as such you run the risk of stunting your growth, and damaging your body during this stage. Yeah, I drank then. Yeah I binged. But it was a rare occasion - if it was lowered to 16, I'd have gone to the pub, and I'd have gotten wasted more often, because it was something to do.

I really can't see how this would be beneficial to anyone under 18.

funky penguin

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

Why not ban alcohol? It serves no rational service. Except in use of sterilisation.

Isn't a glass of red wine a day good for you? And I think a pint of the black stuff a day helps clear arteries.

Sarky

Imposter wrote:

The only thing about doing something like this in Ireland is that it might kill off a large percentage of the population in the first few weeks or months. Also not a bad thing if you ask me :eek:

That's harsh but fair.

I like your moxie.

Stark

Yes I like it too. We also need to make alcohol dirt cheap for a time to speed the culling process and minimize potential damage while the drunken hordes are running rampant. Perhaps we could market methylated spirits as purple Aftershock.

My vote is for Imposter as the next benevolent dictator of Ireland, the best since Brian Boru

Sarky

Ah, Boru. "Vote me king or I'll hack yer legs off!" Such panache, such forthrightness. You just don't see that kind of determination in national figures these days.

Wertz

Stark wrote:

Perhaps we could market methylated spirits as purple Aftershock.

lmao

I'd say the counterfeit vodka and white rum currently doing the round in the border region have their fair share of meths.

BTW lowering age limit to 16??! I hope whoever posted that is under 18...

Imposter

Wertz wrote:

BTW lowering age limit to 16??! I hope whoever posted that is under 18...

Not quite! Why do you think it's a bad idea?

Wertz

Imposter wrote:

Not quite! Why do you think it's a bad idea?

I think a certain level of maturity is required for people to use/enjoy alcohol safely. Now I know that we have a huge underage drinking problem in this country, mainly to do with the lax enforcement of the licensing laws...but your fix is to simply lower the bar (pardon the pun) ? A drunken 16 yr old, be it on the streets or in a pub is a liability IMO. The average 16yr old should still be at school furthering their education...giving them all alcohol on a platter would be detrimental to their schooling and their mental wellbeing in general...Also just where in the hell does a 16yr old get the money to actually go drinking in a pub?
Christ having reread this I sound like I'm 50-something ....I guess what you're advocating has it merits the same way decrimialising drugs has it's merits, but in the bigger picture it's creating a whole new set of problems...

Blisterman

I think they should legalise cannabis. Maybe some of the scumbags will get stoned and stay in their houses for a change. Ive never seen a stoned person cause trouble anywhere.

Wertz

Blisterman wrote:

I think they should legalise cannabis. Maybe some of the scumbags will get stoned and stay in their houses for a change. Ive never seen a stoned person cause trouble anywhere.

I agree 100%. But if it's enforced (or priced) the same way alcohol policies are now, then they can keep it illegal, thanks very much...

Blisterman

Blisterman wrote:

I think they should legalise cannabis. Maybe some of the scumbags will get stoned and stay in their houses for a change. Ive never seen a stoned person cause trouble anywhere.

Just because it would be legalised, wouldn't mean that people wouldn't drink excessively...

Dimitri

Wertz wrote:

I think a certain level of maturity is required for people to use/enjoy alcohol safely.

Based on my experiences out for the past year no one under 25 should be allowed drink so... especially me. However a liberal approach to alcohol consumption is proven to work, a stricter approah never seems to work properly. In countries with a more liberal approach consumption is usually way lower and more controled than here or england.