House design probs

Eve1

Hi, I have read some of your threads and thought that some of ye could help me. We have put in for planning but I am really unhappy with the layout of the sittingroom and I am trying to rectify it without having to resubmitt. The sitting room is fifteen foot by 26.7 foot and seems really awkward for laying out furniture. Originally it was two rooms but the rooms were too small. I thought that it would be nice as one room because it would have windows to the east, south and west. At the moment there is a door at the bottom left hand side from the hall and double doors at the top left hand side entering into the kitchen. There are glass door at the back (east) into the garden and the fireplace is on the north wall with the doors from the hall and kitchen. At the moment the fireplace is centred but I thought if we moved it down slightly and removed the double doors (from the kitchen) so that it was open plan we could use the sitting room as two areas?
Any ideas? I am beginning to get really frustrated.

Eve :eek:

yop

Should be no issue with changing the layout inside and you should not have to resubmit I would have thought??

Eve1

yop wrote:

Should be no issue with changing the layout inside and you should not have to resubmit I would have thought??

Yeah your right, you dont have to resubmitt if you change the internal layout. What I meant was I am looking for ideas that wouldn't mean having to change anything external.
Eve

kadman

Eve1 wrote:

Yeah your right, you dont have to resubmitt if you change the internal layout. What I meant was I am looking for ideas that wouldn't mean having to change anything external.
Eve

Hi Eve1,

When you say you are looking for ideas that won't mean changing any thing external, I assume you do not want to move either doors or windows on the external wall. That really leaves only the fireplace in the room, that you have pondered about moving. Is there a chimmney breast involved here. If there is you may end up with some additional building if you are moving the fire, and then forming flue connections to your new location.

Or maybe you are looking at interior design ideas to define your new living space areas, and yet keep the open plan feel. You could maybe incorporate different floor levels, use furniture as room dividers, cathedral ceiling effects, lighting ect.

I was of the same opinion as Yop, that your query was in relation to building construction changes. But maybe you are looking for interior design ideas instead. If you could maybe point us in the direction you are thinking of, I'm sure the ideas will start flowing here.

kadman

Eve1

kadman wrote:

Hi Eve1,

I was of the same opinion as Yop, that your query was in relation to building construction changes. But maybe you are looking for interior design ideas instead. If you could maybe point us in the direction you are thinking of, I'm sure the ideas will start flowing here.

kadman

Yeah sorry trying to think with crying baby!
I suppose I am loooking for both but mainly constructional changes that would be considered minor changes to a planner if they effected the exterior. What are your thoughts on the size of the room?
Eve

yop

That is a serious size of a room alright.

Is the layout the same as the jpeg I have attached?

Just to give us an idea?

You do seem to have a lot of doors off the room alright. I would defo think of splitting the room alright into a dinning room and sitting room in one or even partitioning the dining room off from the sitting room, losing them double doors altogether and having open plan between kitchen and dining room, then either moving the single door to access the sitting room or else add a new door into the sitting room.

Where are the windows?

Eve1 wrote:

Yeah sorry trying to think with crying baby!
I suppose I am loooking for both but mainly constructional changes that would be considered minor changes to a planner if they effected the exterior. What are your thoughts on the size of the room?
Eve

Eve1

This is a jpeg of the room. Our thoughts so far are to move the fireplace down slightly towards the door from the hall, so that it is at a half way point of the wall. Getting rid of double doors and a bit of the wall at the back so it would be open plan. Any other ideas? Would our idea work?
Eve

kadman

Eve1 wrote:

This is a jpeg of the room. Our thoughts so far are to move the fireplace down slightly towards the door from the hall, so that it is at a half way point of the wall. Getting rid of double doors and a bit of the wall at the back so it would be open plan. Any other ideas? Would our idea work?
Eve

Hi Eve1,

From what you are saying, you were thinking of moving the fireplace, and widening the double doors into the kitchen, to increase the open plan effect.
Either of these options may involve some structural alteration in the house.

I assume , from the stairs on the plan that there is a first floor above the living area. Given the layout of the plan, the first floor joists would run from left to right, this points to the double door wall being a load bearing wall, or is there a beam running from left to right in the living area ,any attempt to widen this ope, can be major work, a wider head being required here.

Also is there a chimmney where the fireplace is located. Any work involved in relocating a chimmney is going to be costly. Alternatively running new connections to a moved fireplace, may impact from an aesthetic point of view.

The two options you are discussing would really need to be assessed from a site visit by a professional.

kadman

Eve1

kadman wrote:

Hi Eve1,

From what you are saying, you were thinking of moving the fireplace, and widening the double doors into the kitchen, to increase the open plan effect.
Either of these options may involve some structural alteration in the house.

Hi Kadman, the house is just at the planning stage.
Eve

kadman

Eve1 wrote:

kadman wrote:

Hi Eve1,

From what you are saying, you were thinking of moving the fireplace, and widening the double doors into the kitchen, to increase the open plan effect.
Either of these options may involve some structural alteration in the house.

Hi Kadman, the house is just at the planning stage.
Eve

Hi Eve,

An oversight on my part, cad work and on the boards at the same time..sorry.

Well if you want to retain the open plan feel, I would be reluctant to install partitions in ther living area, as this would return it to the original 2 rooms .
I would be inclined to define each seperate area without walls. You could install full width bifold doors/partitions, that could be pulled across when and if you needed two areas there, these could be developed as a box ornate column either side on the north and south wall. And when closed would appear to be two boxed columns, with turnings, carvings ect.

I would also agree that the double doors into the kitchen could be removed, and widened. I agree with Yop, that two many doors require access pathways in a room, that cannot be used beneficially. I would also move the double doors to the garden, as far towards the kitchen as possible, so as to move the access pathway away from the corner of the room, to allow it to be more usable.

Is there a first floor level above the living area????

kadman



I would definitely widen the kitchen double doors

kadman

One option,

kadman


Bifold doors, this will give you an option for either two seperate rooms or open for a single living space.

http://www.jeld-wen.com/interiordoors/molded/jeld-wen/product.cfm/product_id/108&groupid=

kadman

smileygal

Hi Eve,

Is that a TV in the bottom right corner?

Eve1

yes smileygal its a tv the layout was different and the technician drawing the plans just didn't bother changing it.

Thanks for the ideas Kadman, I really like the idea of having a Bifold door designed. Your drawing really helped me visualise what the open plan would look like.
Your right about there being an upstairs, the house is a dormer otherwise I would have loved to have gone for double height.
Eve

kadman

Hi Eve1,

If the idea of bifold doors appeals to you, folding walls may also be an option for you. I have found a link that might give you some other ideas of creating the concept you require.

The bifold door option should be easily sourced in Ireland. Indeed the hinges for such an arrangement are readily available in local builders merchants, manufactured by Henderson , or similar products. A good quality joinery should have no trouble accommodating your requirements. So there would be no need to go for a specialist bifold installer fit, as the joinery route would probably be the cheaper option.

Depending on the close proximity of the fire to the doors, engineered doors may be a better option than solid timber, or manufactured doors from mdf veneered or foil faced doors may be the way to go.

When you have decided on the final layout of the room, bring your design to your supplier, and they should be able to advise you on the best choice of materials.

http://www.spazio.co.uk/Opening%20frameset.htm


kadman

kadman

Just to help you visualise,

kadman

Eve1

kadman wrote:

Just to help you visualise,

kadman

Wow thanks a mill, that's great. I think I'll go for that and move the fireplace down to the centre of the wall.
On a different note have you ever used sketch up? Would it give be as good as autocad to use as a visualisation tool?
Eve

kadman

Hi,
I've never used sketch up, so I can't give you an opinion there. Autocad is a good tool for 3d visualisation , if you get to grips with it.

If I get a chance I'll do a 3d vis. on an american package, that is exceptionally good, if I can find it , as I have not used it for a while.

kadman

kadman

Hi Eve1,

As promised, this might give you a better idea of what you are contemplating, hope it helps,

kadman

davidoco

just an idea as I have a long living room area and it was a witch to get it to be cosy for watching the telly at night and bright and airy during the day.

do you have a dining room attached to the other side of the kitchen?

kadman

Eve1 wrote:

On a different note have you ever used sketch up? Would it give be as good as autocad to use as a visualisation tool?
Eve

Hi Eve1,

I had a quick look at sketch up. I have used similar American cad software programmes , such as Chief Architect, Solidbuilder and EZ Builder, Solid, Cabinet Vision, indeed the jpeg. I posted for you was drawn in an American cad programme. They are definitely very user friendly, more so than Autocad, which can be a bit daunting at first.

These types of programmes, have set menus and parametric macros already set in them, that can not be altered, so you are confined to work in these parameters. You can set macros for what ever you require in Autocad.

The American software is more visually command friendly, and it does its job very effectively , although some of the working parameters may be more limited than Autocad. Autocad is a very effective cad tool for all cad work, regardless of the discipline. steel, construction, mechanical, timber. Sketch up may not be as versatile as Autocad across the whole cad spectrum.

Definitely cost wise , its an excellent programme. Architectural desktop is a cad programme, that is also 3d orientated. 3D cad modelling software is considered to be the top of the range drawing tool, but for technicians and designers to make the transition from 2d to 3d is a slow process here in Ireland.

( Sorry for the technical ramblings )

3d cad is the way foreward

kadman

MorningStar

There are benifits and problems with open living.
Pro.
1) Feels like there is more space
2) Everybody interacts with each other in the house
3) Light travels well
Cons
1) Expensive and difficult to heat (traditional heating methods are just going to get more expensive over the next 30 years)
2) Difficult/expensive to furnish. Furniture can seems very small in open spaces and bigger furniture is more expensive.
3) One mess makes the entire space look messy so you need to be a very tidy person and have no children
4) People must spend all their time together in family areas. A real problem with teenagers
5) Smell travels so open plan kitchens even with extractor fans can smell up everywhere else.
While there are more cons the benifits can be worth it. Your personal pro/cons list might be different but try to look at open space living as a reality and not just be taken up by it's current popularity.
The sliding doors shown look great and I would seriously look at them. There is also the idea of hidden sliding doors where the door slides into the wall but if done incorrectly difficult to maintain. The best option to take is versatility , something that looks open plan that can be closed off.

Eve1

Hi all,
I really thought about this over the long weekend. Davidoco I think your right. We really need to get rid of some windows. I am presuming that the planners will consider this as a minor alteration. I might change the size of the two remaining ones and realign them.
Morningstar, where can I get info on the hidden folding doors, I bet there on the expensive size. Would we have to consider them now at this stage?

Eve

kadman

Hi Eve,

As Morningstar correctly identifies, concealed sliding doors need to be professionally fitted, to achieve a good result.

You would have the option to insert the doors into a prepared block cavity, or a prepared wooden partitioned cavity. From the point of view of fitting the overhead track, and maintainence, the wooden cavity formed partition would be an easier option. Access to each formed cavity can be achieved by removable panels on one side of the formed partition.

Any standard or off standard door of your choice can be fitted to available sliding tracks, siuch as henderson or similar. Your fitter should fit tracks suitable for a heavier door than you intend, so as to over engineer at this stage , in case you should change doors in future years. Complete sliding partitions may also be an option for you.


http://www.spec-net.com.au/company/cavslide.htm

kadman

MorningStar

Eve1 wrote:

Hi all,
I really thought about this over the long weekend. Davidoco I think your right. We really need to get rid of some windows. I am presuming that the planners will consider this as a minor alteration. I might change the size of the two remaining ones and realign them.
Morningstar, where can I get info on the hidden folding doors, I bet there on the expensive size. Would we have to consider them now at this stage?

Eve

The link provided is pretty good for your needs I'd say.
If the change to windows changes the front of the house the planners will see it as a major change. Realigning the windows is a really good idea. Who did your drawings and is acting as your architect? They really should be giving you feedback and telling you of options like moveable partians and concealed doors.