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Sipura ATA-2100 question

  • #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭ carrotcake


    after reading here that the ata-3000 causes an initial delay when dialling non-u.s. numbers, i was wondering do blueface customers who've ordered the 2100 from them have the same problem? or have blueface managed to configure it before delivery so that there's no delay?


Comments



  • The delay when using Sipura ATA is due to the default dialplan being set up for the US. If you change it to reflect the Irish number plan the delay will go away.

    For example I changed it to:
    ([2-9]xxxxxx|[01]x.|999|30x|*x.)
    This gets rid of the delay for local numbers, but because it still uses wild cards for other numbers they will still a short delay.

    I think that ATA from other makers will also have a similar default dialplan.

    Willie




  • I think this type of problem only happens on devices that have both FXS and FXO ports.
    The FXO port is for connecting to a POTS line. Proper use of a device with 1FXS+1FXO is to connect a single phone to either VoIP or to POTS. However, the problem appears when you have to instruct the device what calls to route to VoIP and what calls to rout to POTS. That's where the dialplan comes in play.

    In all honesty, if you are only using VoIP as the only phone system at home, I wouldn't invest in a Sipura3000. The 2100 should do fine.

    Cheers,
    JP




  • The dial plan is relavent to all models of siprua ATA.

    "The SPA allows each line to be configured with a distinct dial plan. The dial plan specifies how to interpret digit sequences dialed by the user, and how to convert those sequences into an outbound dial string"

    Unless the number you dial matches at least one of the entries in the dial plan you will not be able to place a call (PSTN or VOIP).

    "No candidate sequences remain: the number is rejected."

    The default dial plan is set for the US with and additional wildcard "x." (any number one or more digits long) tacked on the end, which is why it will work over here out of the box.

    The quotes are from the ATA user guide http://www.sipura.com/Documents/SipuraSPAUserGuidev2.0.9.pdf




  • I would agree with JoyPad that the sipura 2100 would be fine for most people unless you want failover to the PSTN line.

    I bought my 3000 from http://store.voxilla.com/ their prices are:
    SPA-2000 $64.95 (2 VoIP lines)
    SPA-2100 $84.95 (same as 2000 but with quality of service added)
    SPA-3000 $96.95 (similar to 2000 except one line is used for connecting to a normal PSTN incomming phone line)
    and $3.95 for a UK/Irish plug.
    When you add on shipping and customs duty I think they will still be cheaper than what you can get in Europe.

    The benifit of the 2100 is that it can give preferance to VoIP traffic over data traffic, however it is a little bigger than either of the other two.

    The 3000 has additional features such as fail-over to your normal PSTN line, routing calls from VoIP to PSTN or vica-versa, it can also select which calls to go via VoIP or PSTN (via the dialplan).

    Both the 2000 and 2100 can be setup for two VoIP accounts however the 3000 can only use one.

    Willie.




  • is it possible to set it up so that there's no delay with both dublin and mobile numbers?


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  • Carrotcake I think that the following will do what you want (it explicitly matches the mobile numbers and removes the matches from the wild cards)

    ([2-9]xxxxxx|08[567][0-46-9]xxxxxx|08[567]5xxxxxxx|08[0-49]x.|1x.|0[0-79]x.|999|30x|*x.)

    However I don't have time to check it fully now (I'll do it over the weekend) This will remove the delay introduced by the sipura ATA (4 seconds) however there will be still the normal mobile setup delay.

    Willie.




  • Probably a good idea to include the new 112 emergency number anywhere you've got the old 999 number.




  • The 112 number is covered by the 1x. rule which will take about 3 seconds for the interdigit timer to realise you have stopped dialing. To test the 1x. rule I called the 171 (voicemail) and it took about 4 seconds to hear it asking for the password.

    I put in the 999 number explicitly because otherwhise the rule for local numbers [2-9]xxxxxx alone would start to match. Causing the longer timer value of 10 seconds to be used. This reduced to 3 seconds by including it.




  • On most phones you can press the # or the "Call Dial" key to get the Sipura to dial the call straight away and avoid the delay. This may be an easier option if you're not too keen on customising the dial plan.

    Aaron




  • thanks for that, willie. i see you even included voicemail. smart!

    aaron, do you know which dial plan blueface uses? or is it changed at all?


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  • carrotcake wrote:
    thanks for that, willie. i see you even included voicemail. smart!

    aaron, do you know which dial plan blueface uses? or is it changed at all?
    No change is made to the default dial plan for Sipuras that are pre-configured by Blue Face at this stage. However given the thoughts presented in this thread we may start doing so and also provide a "suggested" dial plan on our web site.

    Aaron




  • aaronc wrote:
    No change is made to the default dial plan for Sipuras that are pre-configured by Blue Face at this stage. However given the thoughts presented in this thread we may start doing so and also provide a "suggested" dial plan on our web site.

    Aaron

    Aaron,

    If you want volunteers to test any new dial plans, give me a shout.

    Willie.




  • aaronc wrote:
    No change is made to the default dial plan for Sipuras that are pre-configured by Blue Face at this stage. However given the thoughts presented in this thread we may start doing so and also provide a "suggested" dial plan on our web site.

    Aaron

    I would certainly support such a idea,
    Even if the dialplan covers 086, 085 & 087, whatever geographic area code the customer has chosen and 076 I think most people would be thankfull to be rid of the big delay.




  • Here's a list of most of the call patterns that are likely to be used for Irish calls along with a possible dial plan. Please note that while I have tested it there may be ommissions or errors.

    Also if you are outside of Dublin it would be possble to use the Sipura's dial plan to do some pattern substitutions so you can dial numbers as if in your local area code. You would need to do this as the Blue Face dial plan treats incoming calls as if they were dialled as Dublin local numbers.

    999|911|112 - Emergency Services
    *xx. - matches the Blue Face VoIP prefixes and stops the Sipura's Vertical Service Activation Codes kicking in and preventing the call
    30[0-5] - Blue Face demo numbers
    3xxx - Blue Face Member Numbers
    0766xxxxxx - Irish VoIP numbers (not in service as at 7th May 2005 but you I've included them in the dial plan in anticipation)
    18[059]0xxxxxx - Freefone 1800, CallSave 1850, LoCall 1890
    118[56]0 - Conduit Directory Enquiries
    1181[18] - Eircom Directory Enquiries
    1191 - Eircom Speaking Clock
    190[134579] - Operator Help Lines
    0818xxxxxx - NationalCall 0818
    0700xxxxxx - Personal Numbering 0700
    08[567]xxxxxxx - Irish Mobile Calls
    171 - Blue Face Voice Mail
    0[1-9]x. - Ireland National
    [24-8]x. - Dublin

    Sipura Dial Plan:
    (112|999|911|*xx.|S1 30[0-5]|3xxx|171|0766xxxxxx|118[059]0xxxxxx|118[56]0|1181[18]|1191|190[134579]|0818xxxxxx|0700xxxxxx|08[567]xxxxxx|0[1-9]x.|[24-8]x.|00x.|x.)

    Aaron




  • Aaron,

    will the Sipuras come pre-configured with this plan from now?




  • paulm17781 wrote:
    Aaron,

    will the Sipuras come pre-configured with this plan from now?
    Yes. Although of course it may be modified if we need to make any corrections.

    It's also worth remembering that you can get the Sipura to dial straight away by pressing the # key, this is what I would do since I prefer not to even wait the 3 seconds after a dial plan match.

    Aaron




  • aaronc wrote:
    Yes. Although of course it may be modified if we need to make any corrections.

    Certainly a good idea if it helps cut down on the wait time for people (even if it is 1-2 seconds)
    :)




  • Aaron,

    I just had a quick look at your suggested dial plan and have a few comments.

    There are some overlapping entries, which will still result in the 3 second delay in all cases.

    Too show this, try the following rules out.
    171
    171|x.
    x.

    And you will find that the second and third rules take 3 seconds longer than the first to be asked for your passowrd.

    In order to stop the delay when a number is matched it must be the only possible match. (See page 85 of the siprua SPA user guide)

    The simplest dial plan which would work for all numbers (but giving a 3 sec delay in all cases) is (*x.|x.) which is in-effect what the default device config uses :)

    This is slightly changed from my previous suggestion (I noticed a mistake in calling blueface numbers and including some ideas from your plan):

    [24-8]xxxxxx --- Local Dublin numbers (numbers starting with 3 & 9 are reserved and unallocated)

    0x. --- All long distance numbers
    Which can be broken down to:
    08[567][0-46-9]xxxxxx --- Normal mobile numbers
    08[567]5xxxxxxx --- Mobile voice mail numbers
    08[0-49]x. --- All other 08 numbers
    076xxxxxxx --- All VoIP (inc future alocations)
    07[0-57-9]x. ---- All other 07 numbers
    0[0-69]x. --- All other longdistance numbers (could be broken down futher if required)

    999 --- No timeout
    30x --- Blueface test numbers with 3 sec timeout
    3xxx --- Blueface extensions (no timeout)
    *x. --- to stop the vertical services activation codes and to allow the VoIP operator prefixes blueface uses.

    1x.
    To remove the 3 sec delay on 112 change 1x. to
    10
    112

    11[013-9]
    11[013-9]x.
    (These two lines could be changed to explicitly account for services like 114 (international operator) and 118xx directory enq. numbers etc.)

    1[2-9]x.
    This last rule could be futher broken down to:
    171
    1[2-689]x.

    Putting this all together I get (for the simple case):
    ([24-8]xxxxxx|0x.|999|30x|3xxx|*x.|1x.)

    or breaking down the numbers down gives:

    ([24-8]xxxxxx|08[567][0-46-9]xxxxxx|08[567]5xxxxxxx|08[0-49]x.
    |076xxxxxxx|07[0-57-9]x.|0[0-69]x.|999|30x|3xxx|*x.|10|112|11[013-9]|11[013-9]x.
    |171|1[2-689]x.)

    Another possible suggestion you could put up on your website would be for local numbers for customers not in the Dublin area would be to preappend their local area code using <:STD code> before the rule matching their local number.

    It is also possible for the sipura ATAs to block calls to certian numbers which may be useful for some customers by placing a ! at the end of a rule.

    Regards
    Willie.




  • Aaron,

    I just had a quick look at your suggested dial plan and have a few comments.

    <snip>
    Thanks a lot for pointing out the problems with my plan Willie. You are right that it didn't make sense to have x. at the end since that would match everything and result in a 3 second delay due to multiple matches. My only concern here is the fact that if there is no catch all, such as x., then if we've missed any valid patterns the Sipura won't dial the number.

    I'm inclined to think your simple dial plan is the way to go as an extra 2 seconds for some numbers is probably a better option then a mistake somewhere that prevents a call going through. For the adventurous the more elaborate plan could save 2 seconds on more calls but in the case of advanced users they would probably be aware that an immediate congestion signal indicates a broken dial plan.

    I've modified your simple plan slightly to become:

    (999|911|112|30x|3xxx.|171|11[013-9]x.|1[02689]x.|[24-8]xxxxxx|0x.|*x.)

    3xxx. - I overlooked that some Blue Face numbers are 3xxxx already

    Any further corrections would be most welcome.

    That's also a good point about the substitution for different areas codes and we'll try and get some instructions up shortly.

    Regards,
    Aaron




  • aaronc wrote:
    I'm inclined to think your simple dial plan is the way to go as an extra 2 seconds for some numbers is probably a better option then a mistake somewhere that prevents a call going through. For the adventurous the more elaborate plan could save 2 seconds on more calls but in the case of advanced users they would probably be aware that an immediate congestion signal indicates a broken dial plan.

    I would agree with you using a simple easy to check dial plan, as it is more important for you to give out a working one than a 3 seconds delay, as the last thing you need is someone calling you saying I can't call blah.... Any users who understand what they are doing can have fun writing a more complex one :)
    aaronc wrote:
    I've modified your simple plan slightly to become:

    (999|911|112|30x|3xxx.|171|11[013-9]x.|1[02689]x.|[24-8]xxxxxx|0x.|*x.)

    3xxx. - I overlooked that some Blue Face numbers are 3xxxx already

    Just thinking, 30x|3xxx. could be simplified to 3x.

    The only additions needed are 10 for the operator assistance as the 1[02689]x. would take 10 seconds (long timer) because it would expect at least one extra digit. I suggest changing this rule to 10|1[2689]x.

    A similar case would be 114 (international operator), the 11[013-9]x. expects 4 or more digits. I don't think there are any other 11x (3 digit) numbers as all the rest are of the form 11x. (> 3 digits) [I need to check comregs site again to be sure.]

    The only combinations I can see it won't allow be dialed are:
    numbers starting with 9 (except for 999 & 911) which are unallocated and reserved -- so of no concern.
    numbers starting with 17 except for 171
    aaronc wrote:
    Any further corrections would be most welcome.

    That's also a good point about the substitution for different areas codes and we'll try and get some instructions up shortly.
    No problems, I'm teaching myself how VoIP works.... So some thing real to look at is interesting.

    Plus I want to see you doing well as you are saving me a fortune in international calls :D

    Willie.


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  • Just thinking, 30x|3xxx. could be simplified to 3x.
    If I understand all this (and I don't) dial plan lark, then that should cover the 3xxxx too, right?
    A similar case would be 114 (international operator), the 11[013-9]x. expects 4 or more digits. I don't think there are any other 11x (3 digit) numbers as all the rest are of the form 11x. (> 3 digits) [I need to check comregs site again to be sure.]
    What about 112 - for emergency calls; or is this covered explicitly earlier in the dial plan?
    Also, would dialing be quicker (on average) if the most recently used part of the dial plan was listed first, notwithstanding any requirement to go from most specific to most general.

    causal




  • The only additions needed are 10 for the operator assistance as the 1[02689]x. would take 10 seconds (long timer) because it would expect at least one extra digit. I suggest changing this rule to 10|1[2689]x.

    A similar case would be 114 (international operator), the 11[013-9]x. expects 4 or more digits. I don't think there are any other 11x (3 digit) numbers as all the rest are of the form 11x. (> 3 digits) [I need to check comregs site again to be sure.]
    I did check the 10 and 114 numbers as to be honest I'd never come across them before and certainly no one has dialled them from our network to date. The 10 National Op Ass number costs 5.99 euro to call and we would only enable this number at a customer's request, it would seem rather easy to inadvertently dial 10 and get hit with a hefty charge. So while you are correct I did leave them out of the dial plan intentionally.
    The only combinations I can see it won't allow be dialed are:
    numbers starting with 9 (except for 999 & 911) which are unallocated and reserved -- so of no concern.
    numbers starting with 17 except for 171
    There are no Dublin numbers starting with 1 and since 171 is the only number starting with 1 we currently provide this is ok as well.

    Regards,
    Aaron




  • causal wrote:
    If I understand all this (and I don't) dial plan lark, then that should cover the 3xxxx too, right?
    3xxxx would match 30000 but not 300 or 3000. On the other hand 3x. would match them all but then you have multiple matches and get hit with an extra 3 seconds instead of having the call sent from the Sipura straight away as it is with a single match.
    causal wrote:
    What about 112 - for emergency calls; or is this covered explicitly earlier in the dial plan?
    Yes it's covered at the start of the dial pan.
    causal wrote:
    Also, would dialing be quicker (on average) if the most recently used part of the dial plan was listed first, notwithstanding any requirement to go from most specific to most general.
    I don't think it would be possible to say without asking the engineers at Sipura but it's probably going to be down to milliseconds or less between a match at the start of the dial plan and one at the end. However just to be on the safe side I did put the emergency numbers at the start of the dial plan since any extra time saved when dialling these numbers could be particularly significant.

    Regards,
    Aaron




  • aaronc wrote:
    3xxxx would match 30000 but not 300 or 3000. On the other hand 3x. would match them all but then you have multiple matches and get hit with an extra 3 seconds instead of having the call sent from the Sipura straight away as it is with a single match.
    I see. So if you have: 30x | 3xxx | 3xxxx
    - and you dial 3000, you get a delay because it's waiting for a possible 5th digit?

    causal




  • aaronc wrote:
    3xxxx would match 30000 but not 300 or 3000. On the other hand 3x. would match them all but then you have multiple matches and get hit with an extra 3 seconds instead of having the call sent from the Sipura straight away as it is with a single match.

    In your dial plan you suggested using 30x|3xxx. which will take 3 sec to time out in both cases (as the . has the effect of adding 3 sec while it is waiting for more digits to match) to avoid this you will explictly have to give the combinations you want with no wild cards. Or change the S timer say to 1 second.
    aaronc wrote:
    I did check the 10 and 114 numbers as to be honest I'd never come across them before and certainly no one has dialled them from our network to date. The 10 National Op Ass number costs 5.99 euro to call and we would only enable this number at a customer's request, it would seem rather easy to inadvertently dial 10 and get hit with a hefty charge. So while you are correct I did leave them out of the dial plan intentionally.

    All I can say with those rates is Ouch!!!! Just as well they are beiing left out.

    I was being a bit pedantic when I was looking for numbers which couldn't be dialled, which must be put down to when I worked as a software tester a few years ago.

    aaronc wrote:
    I don't think it would be possible to say without asking the engineers at Sipura but it's probably going to be down to milliseconds or less between a match at the start of the dial plan and one at the end. However just to be on the safe side I did put the emergency numbers at the start of the dial plan since any extra time saved when dialling these numbers could be particularly significant.

    My reading of the user manual is that it checks all rules for a match every time, so the order is not signifient, however there is no harm in playing safe like Aaron suggests above.


    Willie




  • causal wrote:
    I see. So if you have: 30x | 3xxx | 3xxxx
    - and you dial 3000, you get a delay because it's waiting for a possible 5th digit?

    causal

    Causal, thats right.

    You would only get a delay (3 seconds) for numbers such as 300 or 3000 but not 30000.

    Because in the first two cases there would be multiple matches but not in the last case when only one rule would match.

    And if you only dialed 30 you would get the long (10 second) delay because no rule would be fully matched.




  • In your dial plan you suggested using 30x|3xxx. which will take 3 sec to time out in both cases (as the . has the effect of adding 3 sec while it is waiting for more digits to match) to avoid this you will explictly have to give the combinations you want with no wild cards.
    Yes you are right again but I had this in there previously so I could do

    (999|911|112|S1 30[1-5]|3xxx.|171|11[013-9]x.|1[02689]x.|[24-8]xxxxxx|0x.|*x.)

    Allows the demo numbers to be dialled a bit quicker :) .

    Aaron




  • aaronc wrote:
    Yes you are right again but I had this in there previously so I could do

    (999|911|112|S1 30[1-5]|3xxx.|171|11[013-9]x.|1[02689]x.|[24-8]xxxxxx|0x.|*x.)

    Allows the demo numbers to be dialled a bit quicker :) .

    Aaron

    I only just rembered you had the S timer changed, but you had replied before I could edit my post :)


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